How do the time release spanules stay in the system?

[bdb66]

Hey guys, i had a theoretical question about adderall, that im not sure if anyone knows off the top of their head, but i couldnt find it in the search or searching any med. websites.

I'm studying pharmacolgy, and something about adderall, or any time release medication puzzles me. Theoretically, if only half of the XR is released and absorbed at one time, and the other time release spanules aren't released until several hours later, how is it that the spanules stay in the intestines for several hours until they are ready to dissolve instead of being passed through at a normal rate with the rest of the food matter? It's hard to imagine how this mechanism works, because after a few hours everything from the stomach will be emptied as well as everything in the small intestine, so is there a chance some of the spanules are wasted before having a chance to be absorbed? If this is explained scientifically please provide a link, otherwise all opinions are welcome. Thanks in advance.

[RaverHippie]

I would imagine the beads are coated with a substance that can withstand the stomach and gets digested later. Probably more of a chemistry question and figuring out the waxy coating on the beads.

[marks.marky]

Digestion isn't a process that only last four hours, it varies by person but on average food won't hit your large intestense till abut 12 hours later. The movement of food can be slowed down or spead up by many different things, and it is called peristalsis. Some peristalsis stimulants are laxatives like castor oil and some deppressents of peristalsis are things like opiods which you can actually take for diarrehaea.

Anyway, the coating on these beads works off of a concentration gradient, so if the coating is not being absorbed from the intestense then the rest of it will not dissolve off of the bead, the lower the concentration of the coating around the bead the quicker it will dissolve. Usually you will get the second wave of absorption 4-6 hours later.

Sorry I didn't have a link.

[GForce]

The above being said, it is theoretically possible for the beads to reach a point in your GI tract, before they get metabolized, in which absorption would be reduced. For example, increasing the pH in your stomach will help prevent first-pass metabolism in which HCl in your stomach will just destroy some amphetamine molecules (the stomach doesn't actually absorb any nutrients, just breaks down what you put in it). The first 10 inches of your small intestine is known as the duodenum and this is where most chemical digestion takes place. I've had problems with the second dose from an Adderall XR barely working, if even at all, so my doctor prescribes exclusively instant release medication for me. Between the inevitable destruction of some of the beads in the stomach and then the time release mechanism preventing metabolism for 4 hours it is possible for the beads (less in number) to be past the duodenum and therefore not digested as extensively. I believe this was my problem with XR because of the fact that whenever I take Adderall its like pressing the fast switch on my metabolism, and by the time the second group of beads begins to break down it is further along in the GI tract than what would be optimal for absorption.

[bdb66]

I know this reply is semi-long, so i can provide CLIFF'S NOTES if requested.

Thanks for all of the replies. I have a few more questions, some pertaining to the previous replies and some new ones. Everyone PLEASE take the time to read through these questions, as SWIM is not only personally curious, but will be writing a pharmacological term paper on adderall very shortly and would love to get as deep into the chemistry of this drug as possible. THANKS TO ALL IN ADVANCE.

GFORCE- it would make sense that there is at least some possibility that some of the beads get passed through the duodenum without being absorbed, as SWIM has also noticed the second dose that is released to be no where near as effective as the first, and im not sure how well the intestine themselve can break down/absorb the beads, if at all. My main question is regarding increased absorbtion with administering with TUMS or some kind of ant-acid. Theoretically when the tums raises the ph of the stomach it is supposed to protect some of the amphetamine from being destroyed by the stomach acid before having a chance to be absorbed, but would raising the ph also cause there to be less of in "initial onset rush"?
The reason i ask is because SWIM took 30 mg's of XR on an empty stomach and felt a decent intial rush, but the levels did not feel very steady several hours later. Then about a week later SWIM took 60 mg's of XR with 3 tums, followed by a few more tums about 40 minutes later. swim literally felt ZERO of an onset rush feeling, and within the next 5 hours later SWIM'S mindset and levels just feel very steady and calm as if he had only drank a few cups of coffee. Is it possible that raising the PH of the stomach too high caused some of the beads that would normally be broken down not to be broken down and then passed through the stomach and beginning of the intestines before it had a chance to be absorbed? Or would it just take longer for the beads to break down which would cause less to be absorbed at one time lowering the onset feeling?

GFORCE- I remember reading in one of your other posts that you stated that if the Ph level of the stomach gets too high then there is a point where the amphetamine won't be broken down at all. Is it possible that this was the case when SWIM took too many tums? Perhaps the slowed absorbtion just caused there to be more of a steady feeling instead of a big intial onset. But there has to be something that was way different than normal because the 60 mg's is twice the dose that SWIM normally takes, and with the normal dose SWIM feels quite euphoric. Swim is using these for educational purposes, so the initial rush is not what he's aiming for, although its nice to know it's working, but this time SWIM figured that something in the absorbtion process was not optimal.
ANY and ALL feedback pertaining to any of the questions in this thread is greatly appreciated, or any other information about adderall that SWIM should be aware of. Thanks in advance...

[GForce]

Raising the pH would not cause there to be less of an "initial onset rush." As mentioned, your stomach doesn't absorb any nutrients. The main purpose of your stomach is to break down what you eat into much smaller pieces so that there is more surface area to absorb as much nutrients as possible in the small intestine. When stomach acid "breaks down" amphetamine molecules it isn't aiding you in absorption in the same way, it is actually destroying the molecule rendering it virtually useless for what it is used for.

From Wiki: The first-pass effect (also known as first-pass metabolism or presystemic metabolism) is a phenomenon of drug metabolism whereby the concentration of a drug is greatly reduced before it reaches the systemic circulation.

I was incorrect in calling the stomach acids first pass metabolism. In fact, first pass metabolism refers mainly to the first pass through the liver. The liver metabolizes drugs before they even reach circulation and this diminished their effects. However there are more systems that contribute to the first pass effect, including digestion in the stomach, but they aren't as significant. That being said, the point of taking an alkalizing agent is because the pH of the stomach is at a constant 1-2 making it virtually as acidic of an environment you'll find anywhere. The lack of an onset rush has to be due to other factors.

As for your second question, I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. I said that alkalizing your stomach will have diminishing returns because inevitably you'll reach a pH level in which amphetamine molecules aren't going to be destroyed anymore. That doesn't mean they won't be absorbed by your small intestine, it just means they aren't going to be broken down in the stomach.

If you're concerned that increasing the pH of your stomach is, in fact, the reason you aren't feeling a rush then I would suggest parachuting the Adderall as well. This involves either chewing the pill or grinding it into a powder and then swallowing it normally. If you do decide to do this you should definitely alkalize your stomach as the increased surface area will make the molecules more exposed to the acids in your stomach. Users do report an increased initial rush from parachuting without taking Tums or something similar, but this is due to the fact that the already broken down pill will be absorbed more quickly by the intestine. The effects don't last as long which is one drawback to parachuting. This is the reason I suggest alkalizing in conjunction with parachuting. I would believe it would result in more absorption and last longer.

BTW, in all the documentation I've received about Adderall due to my prescription, I've never seen mention of "do not chew pill." I know Adderall XR says not to chew them because it will destroy the release system, however instant release Adderall is the same amphetamine combination mixed with sugar and fillers so that a pill can be pressed. I only mention this because I didn't use SWIM/SWIY when talking about parachuting. My old doctor has actually told me before that if I need the Adderall to kick in faster I can chew it a bit (such as waking up before an exam).