Methadone or Suboxone maintenance?

[blackdb1]

Swim Has had problems with opiate addiction for about 2 and a 1/2 years now and it has been quite a struggle... At the age of 17 swim first took an oxycodone while in another state at his cousins funeral. Swims cousin actually committed suicide by taking a full bottle of oxycontin (oxycodone time release), yet he didn't know thiat at the time. Swims father had a RX to methadone and oxycodone so he took some out of his fathers bag while his father wasn't in the hotel room. Long story short, swim got addicted about 6 months later and has been struggling since.

Swim has detoxed and gotten clean for varying amounts of time about 15 times. He still struggles with living sober though! This past christmas swim went to live with an aunt in another state to 'dry out' for a while. He stayed about 1 month and was clean except for occasional cyclobenzaprine for sleep and muscle aches (swim has fibromyalgia). He also went on 2 3 day stimulant benders. One time methylphenidate patches and once with adderall. Anyways swim got clean and came home enjoying life being sober for the first time in a LONG TIME!!! Well the first night back swim hooked up with some old buddies and had the oppurtunity to take fentany or hydrocodone but resisted, although he did consume 4 mgs alprazolam.

Well about 1 week after being home he found his dads bottle of oxycodone and swim couldn't resist so grabbed a handful. This resulted in swim going right back down the same path so stopped again after a few days. Swim over the next month used quite frequently with either 60mgs of oxy a day or 800-100-mgs of tramadol. Swim however could go a couple days sober this time around. This led swim to believe he was NOT addicted any longer but was just using 'recreationally'. Swim got kicked out of his mothers house and was forced to move in with his father knowing it would be a prob cause of access to meds. Well swim was smoking weed this whole time but steered clear of cocaine, meth, and heroin knowing these caused him major problems on the past. Well it got worse and worse.

Now swims been taking between 20 and 100mgs of methadone a day for the past month and a half. He's also recently started taking meth and coke again. Last week he decided to go to the dr. to get something for his anxiety so he could get off the opiates again. The doc gave him .25mgs of alprazolam 3 times a day. This did not stop him from using opiates however. 2 days ago swim was having some girl trouble and took 1mg of his xanax. This was a mistake because it didnt fully calm him down and he couldn't get any methadone. Swim did get 10mgs of oxy and being on the xanax ended up grabbing a needle (3ml 25gauge 1\2") and he slammed 5mgs . He enjoyed the rush and slammed another 5mgs about an hr later! Swim has been wanting to slam again the past couple days so went and grabbed some 1 unit monoject needles as to not use the same rig twice. Swim has resisted thus far and only snorted oxy and chewed up methadone. Today swim was gonna get clean off the opiates but couldn't resist!!!

2day hes had 10mgs oxy insuflated and 20 mgs methadone oral and is typing this right as the methadones are kicking in and he feels (normal). Earlier a homie of swims came by with some crystal meth and swim sniffed a couple points. Swim thinks suboxone or methadone maintenance may be what swim needs to get on with getting his own home, a job, etc. Swim always said maintenance would be a LAST RESORT but feels that now hes IV'ed it might be his best option???

Sorry 4 the super long post but swim wants everyone to see just how bad his particular addiction is and give him any advice as of what he should do. Do u swimmers think maintenance is a reasonable option for swim or is it to drastic for his situation? All help is greatly appreciated!!!!!

[blackdb1]

Does any of swiyou have any opinion at all on the ??? that swim asked? He isn't asking for anyone to make a decision for him!!! Just asking if swiyou were in his situation would you consider maintenance or just give kickin altogether anothr shot?

Well swim was high when he originally made this post so the above post may just drag on to ask what could be worded in 1 or 2 sentences. haha Silly swim rambles on about nothing all the time while high!!!
Swims was basically just asking if swianyone thought maintenance was a reasonable option? That is if swim gets as low down into addiction as he was a few months back!!! Basically swims inhibitions fly out the window when fiending ,and as low down as he was, not too far back in time. Swim just has a fear of getting as careless and hopeless as he was before!!! Swim did some stupid irresponsible things when fiending for opiates!!! Large DXM doses mixed with coke or meth and benzos and alchy thrown in the mix 2. Swim just convinced himself it was waayy worse than it was, had no self respect and still feels dirty and low down when thinkin bout some of the stuff he did when dope sick!!!

Basically swim is afraid now that he's shot up once it wont be a big deal when fiending to convince himself that just one shot wont hurt!!! Swim still feels horrible that he shot something up but can't use that to trick himself into thinking maintenance is actually his best option!!! The mind is a complex array of thoughts and emotions and can play tricks on you!!! Serious tricks!!!

What swims trying to say is he's been talkin himself into believing he truly needs suboxone when it's really not that bad!!! Swim wanted to shoot up bad the day after first trying it, but held strong until the next day... At this point swim grabbed a clean rig, tied off his arm and had his bro draw up the shot. Well swims bro somehow got only .4mls out of 1ml that was there in the spoon. This pissed swim off sooo bad but 5 mins after just sniffing it felt quite happy it got fucked up. Swim has wanted to since then but he knows if he fights it he CAN overcome!!! Swim has no interest to inject again!!!

But to the reason swim made the post... He was thinking tonight while on some stims..."withdrawal from the methadone I've been taking is gonna be horrible!!!" Then something odd happened... Swim thought his hardest to go back to the last time he was clean off opiates as to gauge how bad the withdrawals would be... And it occured to him that his dads only had his recent script for methadone about 2 and a 1/2 weeks!!! Swim had a week and a half clean before that and occasionally used before that. Soo swims been stressin on something that isn't the true situation!!! Somehow swim tricked himself into believing he'd been using 2 months, he assumes as to trick his self into believing maintenance would be his best option.

So swims been clean 3 days off of the 'done'. He's had no trouble staying sober and is gonna go to some N/A meetings or somewhere he can talk and get the truth off his chest!!! Swim thinks the main thing holding him back now is the guilt of shooting oxy in his arm!!!!!! He thinks once he talks about this mistake he made he can start moving forward again instead of making excuses to go backwards!!!

Swim apologizes for the long ass post but felt he should share just how bad the mind can play you into thinking somethigns OK or worse than it is. Swim will remember from here forward as long as he stops going down the wrong path he WILL move forward!!! Swim also posted this cause he has fooled himself into thinking his life would never regain the quality it once was! keyword "fooled"

Swim just says all you with addictions dont drag yourslef down with the mistakes you've made only use them as arsenal to fight future battles better!!! Look at quitting as your goal and your gonna do it!!! One last thing regarding similar mind trickery... Swim focused to much on what his friends thought and especially listening to people telling him the ONLY WAY to beat his addiction was years of sobriety and addiction counseling!!! Swim the last time he quit from craving morning till night told himself I'm gonna do the best I can and am gonna QUIT!!! within a week swim was back to his self and living a sober life. So everyone; dont get discouraged off your path to sobriety or think it's gonna have to be done THIS OR THAT WAY!!! Do it your way and it can come with relative ease. The main key for swim was that he had to try to enjoy life without drugs and to not dwell on it!!! Just slowly show yourself you can do this or that just as well sober and work up the latter. Eventually you will have confidence KNOWING THAT you CAN tackle anything that comes your way without drugs... And at that point swim can learn to enjoy life again.


Oh yeah PS----- This is just what has gotten 'this' swim through it and he does not claim this is a perfect solution for everyone but if swims case is similar, try what swim said and see if you dont notice the biggest change yet!!! Swim would like to get some vision on his theory of beating the mind games you play with yourself!!! Hope this can help at least ONE person through a rough time and swim will be happy he was able to dhed light on another to help them through it so they can do the same for someoneafter them. Just as someone guided swim through this process, it starts a chain of people helping others and then it's gets passed down from person to person all from one person giving a helping hand!!!! All you out there have a great day!!!

[sweetsugar]

Im sure you can find it in yourself to kick it without the need of any maintenance or other meds, mind over matter me thinks, the psychology part of it is the hardest bit to deal with , hard but beatable. Swim would use meth/subs/benzos for W/Ds(or even with nothing to really feel it and in hope swiy would learn a lesson) then onced kicked, just keep occupied, busy, think positive look to ya goals.. swims partner found it extreamly hard to kick without a maitenance, he was doing ok for months until recently, "a little here and there cant hurt". ??

[y0ssarianlives]

Honestly man, methadone is a terrible, more addictive, impossible to kick drug that H. Suboxone can be on the same par as far as quitting.

I would try going to treatment.

If that doesn;t work, go on methadone as the clinics dont just have you show up in a doctors office and leave; you deal with nurses, have a counciller, more social services available, ect.

I;m on methadone and realize what a terrible addiction it is, but it works for me. They have so much support at the clinics, at least mine.

Either way, please stay safe man,

If you go in to interview, tell them youve been using for over a year btw to be eligible for it.

Although being dependent and tied to your clinic sucls, it saved SWIM from jail or losing an arm. Best of luck man, keep us informed

[blackdb1]

Swim has tried quitting and STAYING clean many, many times without success. He tried this last time and just could not keep from thinking of wanting to relapse!

Swim is on suboxone now and he feels GREAT!!! 100% back to himself! The subs along with benzos for swims anxiety have kept swim from craving drugs all day every day!!! His doc said they would try 6 months mintenance and then decide to taper and stay off or stay at a low dose to ensure no possibily of relapse. Swim was IV'ing 3-4 times a day after trying it 2 weeks before that for the FIRST time!!! So this has got swim heading in the right direction!

Although swim has had a couple slip ups (cocaine, IV benzos) he is mainly doing great! He's currently looking for a job, about to purchase a car, and he is finishing up his project car that he started on a few years back (the car has sat there wheter swim was clean or using for 2 years!) Now swim feels clear headed and motivated enough to actually get out and do these things which is a miracle for him!

Swim thanks all you swimmers greatly!!! -bdb1-

[sweetsugar]

Thas good to hear BDB1, i'm glad to hear its working for you. Stay strong and away from people that are useing. best of luck

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Actually there is a third option.Subutex maintenance.Many people experience negative reactions from suboxone.Suboxone also contains artificial sweetners and flavoring that may damage ones dental health.It also poses the risk of cytolytic hepatitis or liver damage.Swim would seriously reccommend switching to subutex.

[blackdb1]

Swim hadn't heard that swiorchid! He isn't sure if his doc would be willing to switch him to subutex and he has also heard subutex maintenance requires daily pick up which swim does NOT WANT!!! Swim will check into this however and update his progress along the road to recovery. -bdb1-

[kaloochi]

Hello friend. I'm from UK and it's all subutex over here. SWIM was on it for over 2 years and in that time got his life in order after 22 years of heroin addiction and all the madness that goes with it. Methadone is A GREAT BIG NO! Don't even think about that one friend unless you're prepared for the most intense and lengthy w/d's you can imagine. I've done that and the thought just sent a chill down my spine.

I'm in a similar situation to you right now, just maybe a bit further down the line, i don't know. I think subutex is a good idea as it will stop the chaos. To begin with swim was presribed 8mg but only took 4 of that which crept up to almost the full 8 over a couple of years. It can be abused but it has a ceiling effect so if you're comfortable on, say, 8 keep it at that as taking more won't do that much.

As for the daily pick up, if the powers that be se you're doing well that will become weekly and maybe even monthly. Anyways daily pick up isn't all bad at least you've only got to score once a day.....and that's not meant in bad taste.

Good luck and stick with it.

[mickenator]

Hey mate swim is also from the Uk and just going back on methadone, Thought swim'd kicked all this shit when swim got out of jail but even heroin gets to the best of us. Swim has heard of suboxone and would say that that is the way to go as methadone is a no win situation and the withdrawl from it is a sun of a bitch. You seem to be doing well now so try and stay strong as you don't want to be and old swim and still fighting this monster.

[blackdb1]

Thanks all!!! Yeah swim is doing great so far!!! He knows that methadone is a monster of a substance to kick! He was using street methadone at 40mgs-100mgs a day for a few months and that was horrible so he cannot fathom years of methadone use and kicking the habit! shivers!!!!! ooouuuuucch!!!

[oggy]

Deleted!

[drug-bot]

swim has been to 12`detoxes and was committed thru the courts by his parents to a 30`days in jail stint to kick and has never lasted more than 48 hours out of an institution before shooting up, its an extreme mental obsession with swim, swim has willpower over other areas of his life but not with heroin. swims been on methadone for the last 3 months and his life did a 180, he now works and feels free of the obssesion that has fucked his life up. he shot up a handful of times since being on maintaince and used a few recreational drugs but is happy with it. methadone gets a bad wrap, it saves lives, swim attests to it.

[oggy]

Originally Posted by drug-bot

swim has been to 12`detoxes and was committed thru the courts by his parents to a 30`days in jail stint to kick and has never lasted more than 48 hours out of an institution before shooting up, its an extreme mental obsession with swim, swim has willpower over other areas of his life but not with heroin. swims been on methadone for the last 3 months and his life did a 180, he now works and feels free of the obssesion that has fucked his life up. he shot up a handful of times since being on maintaince and used a few recreational drugs but is happy with it. methadone gets a bad wrap, it saves lives, swim attests to it.

Methadone does save lives in the way it will stop one from using heroin, but in Swims opinion its no way to live the rest of your life. Life is far greater when your not addicted to anything. You need to do some CBT work on yourself. Everyone acts on their subconscious mind and if you keep feeding it thoughts of obsession then you will subconsciously have an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder making you believe that you need opiates to survive.

If your one that likes the pleasures of sex, then come off this numbing drug when you have a good 3-6 months being heroin free. The good old cold turkey detox will help you greatly.

[drug-bot]

Originally Posted by oggy

Methadone does save lives in the way it will stop one from using heroin, but in Swims opinion its no way to live the rest of your life. Life is far greater when your not addicted to anything. You need to do some CBT work on yourself. Everyone acts on their subconscious mind and if you keep feeding it thoughts of obsession then you will subconsciously have an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder making you believe that you need opiates to survive.

If your one that likes the pleasures of sex, then come off this numbing drug when you have a good 3-6 months being heroin free. The good old cold turkey detox will help you greatly.

i agree its not a drug to be on forever, swim plams to maintain on 80mg for about 1 year then start to detox by going down 1 mg a week, which will take slightly longer than 1 and a 1/2 years (i've been told by many former methadone patiences as well as councellors this slow decrease produces virtually no withdrawl symptoms).

[oggy]

Originally Posted by drug-bot

i agree its not a drug to be on forever, swim plams to maintain on 80mg for about 1 year then start to detox by going down 1 mg a week, which will take slightly longer than 1 and a 1/2 years (i've been told by many former methadone patiences as well as councellors this slow decrease produces virtually no withdrawl symptoms).

A nasty withdrawal can be good for your soul. A long tapper just prolongs the ill feeling, why do that when you can have it over done within a week? You will learn more about yourself going cold turkey from 80mg. Life goes on. Just because you quit opiates doesn't mean you can't take fun recreational drugs like Ayahuasca (DMT). Swim now loves DMT now after his terrible withdrawal experience. He would have never gone near DMT before after he freaked out on salvia but DMT is a much nicer trip. It brings you up and increases your serotonin by up to 15X higher with no comedown but a really nice after glow and you have a much better outlook on life.

Ayahuasca is also used to help people overcome their addictions and fears. Check out this video. Make sure you watch all 3 parts.

Ayahuasca, The Snake & I. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42995