Health - LSD enduced HPPD and Opiates/Benzos

[Songcycle67]

SWIM has mild HPPD from LSD use and is wondering if anyone has had any success in calming the effects of this disorder with opiates or benzodiazepines? If both, which is more effective?


Thanks for any help!

[Lobsang]

Would it be possible for SWIM to elaborate on what exact symptoms SWIM has? I could possibly help more if I had more information on these. I study HPPD and have noticed that people are starting to classify HPPD differently depending who you talk to.

But no matter what symptoms SWIM has opiates would not be a choice.

[Songcycle67]

Well, SWIM's disorder seems to manifest itself in three ways most prominently:

1. the "seeing the air" phenomenon, in which SWIM can see the atmosphere as if it were composed of tiny pixels of multiple colors. Edit: This also seems to make the halos around light glow almost to the point of taking over the visual field. SWIM also says he can see "colors within colors" a lot of the time.

2. A general feeling of connectedness to the "visual field," as if the visual field itself can be felt as if it were an emotion....SWIM doesn't really know how to describe this.

3. Small, random flashes of light. Sort of like light hitting one speck of glitter somewhere in the visual field. It just sort of emits a "spark" which glows purple for a few seconds and then it's gone. This is the most rare of the manifestations, but it happens at least daily.

Thanks lob!

[Panthers007]

I've noted that what people are talking about - colored 'pixels' in the visual field - are often things they always saw before. They just weren't aware of it. Such as "floaters" on the lens of the eye that, with a little moisture, refracts light like a prism. This causes rainbow-type spectra to become visible. Whether this is HPPD or just new awareness is open to conjecture.

[Songcycle67]

Panthers,

Yes I'm still very suspicious of "HPPD" as a disorder in general. However, whatever the case may be -- it is obvious that something which happens during the LSD experience directly contributes to this new "awareness" that you're speaking of. I didn't mean to imply that HPPD is anything more than a hypothesis suggested mostly by people who are unfamiliar with the direct effects of the drugs themselves.

With that said, would this still not technically be something which could be described as Hallucinogen Persistance?

[Lobsang]

OK....Does SWIM experience "trails" after objects? Does SWIM experience "afterimages"? By afterimages I mean that for example after looking at a light and going into the darkness the light remains? And Can SWIM correlate SWIM's symptoms with LSD use directly? Did they come on after a strong experience or just start showing up? And how long has SWIM had this "problem"?

And also. When SWIM is in bed at night with the lights off before falling asleep does SWIM experience any visual manifestations either with eyes open or closed?

And does SWIM have a lot of anxiety over this? Or is it just bothersome?

[Songcycle67]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

OK....Does SWIM experience "trails" after objects? Does SWIM experience "afterimages"? By afterimages I mean that for example after looking at a light and going into the darkness the light remains? And Can SWIM correlate SWIM's symptoms with LSD use directly? Did they come on after a strong experience or just start showing up? And how long has SWIM had this "problem"?

And also. When SWIM is in bed at night with the lights off before falling asleep does SWIM experience any visual manifestations either with eyes open or closed?

And does SWIM have a lot of anxiety over this? Or is it just bothersome?

SWIM does experience slightly blurred trails after objects SOMETIMES. SWIM experiences afterimages that can persist for up to 40 seconds. He correlates this directly with his LSD use, and while he can't be sure, he believes it resulted after a few weeks of dosing at high levels every 3-4 days. SWIM experiences blurred, closed-eyed visuals almost at all times, but he is not sure how much of this can be correlated to paranoia about the disorder.

SWIM has no anxiety over it specifically and it is not particularly bothersome; however he has an anxious nature and has always been somewhat manic at times, especially in high stress situations. During these times the disorder seems to further impede his ability for rational thought and any relief during these instances would be beneficial.

[Lobsang]

Well it is hard to say. Let's move on the premise that SWIM has some perceptual alterations from LSD. But SWIM should also have an eye exam to include pressure testing. Seeing an opthalmalogist and telling all symptoms.

I would advise that SWIM make a consideration to stop or severely decrease cannibus if SWIM uses it. I would also recommend cutting alcohol and caffeine, nicotine. I would consider getting St John's Wort and Valarian herbs and trying them for 6 weeks. If these natural herbs do not help I would consider trying clonazepam at 2 mg/day for a few months.

In any event one of two things must happen:

1. The symptoms must go away or be cut down.
2. Or SWIM must get use to the perceptions as a normal part of reality

And lastly remember that SWIM asked how to "calm" the effects. I am not in the final analysis sure that is the right thing to do and adapting to the new level of awareness is not the better tangent. But SWIM asked and I am responding to that request.

Idealistically HPPD should be managed by a psychiatrist or physician who is intimately familar with the "disorder". But I will tell you up front that whenever you see one you run the risk of being diagnosed with something else. Most physicians know nothing about the disorder.

[Songcycle67]

Thanks for all the information, Lobsang. SWIM does not intend to seek professional help and understands the benefits of adapting to the peculiarities of these symptoms as part of the post-LSD "process." He just dosed recently and every time he does so the HPPD comes back; always at the same intensity, completely managable, even enjoyable most of the time. He was mainly just interested in a calming agent should a high-level stress situation arise. He has access to clonazepam and will probably take that should this happen, as long-term effects are of little concern to him.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

Thanks for all the information, Lobsang. SWIM does not intend to seek professional help and understands the benefits of adapting to the peculiarities of these symptoms as part of the post-LSD "process." He just dosed recently and every time he does so the HPPD comes back; always at the same intensity, completely managable, even enjoyable most of the time. He was mainly just interested in a calming agent should a high-level stress situation arise. He has access to clonazepam and will probably take that should this happen, as long-term effects are of little concern to him.

Oh OK....It sounds like SWIM has his head on straight.

[Jatelka]

There are case reports in the literature of HPPD being treated with benzodiazepines: See here...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...=3236&catid=32

Clonidine has also been used. See here...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...=3252&catid=32

Given though, that your marmoset has stated that it is not particularly bothersome, or anxiety inducing: Why would they want to "treat" this phenomenom at all?

[Songcycle67]

SWIM has no anxiety over it specifically and it is not particularly bothersome; however he has an anxious nature and has always been somewhat manic at times, especially in high stress situations. During these times the disorder seems to further impede his ability for rational thought and any relief during these instances would be beneficial.

Mostly out of curiosity and for the above reason; SWIM should've said this in his original post. Thanks so much for the articles!

[losd]

SWIM developed mild HPPD after a period of frequent LSD use (2-3 times a week for a couple months). Her symptoms included difficulty reading, flashes of color, pseudohallucinations, halos, illusions of movement, afterimages, and static vision (description of symptoms in this thread: http://www.drugs-wiki.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20456 ). Time was the best treatment for her symptoms. After about 6-8 months the symptoms had lessened by about 50%, while SWIM continued to use substances including occasional LSD. It took about a year after SWIM stopped using all substances (including cannabis) for the HPPD to go away completely. Now it is several years later and whenever SWIM uses a psychedelic the symptoms return for a few days to a week. So don't worry songcycle67, SWIY's HPPD symptoms will go away eventually.