Addiction - Alcohol Abuse and G

[malsat]

Just thought I'd make a post regarding the use of G in the context of a person who has alcohol abuse issues.

There are documents online and experience reports of some individuals which state that G use is unlikely to result in psychological addiction or compulsive usage; IE it is not a 'moreish' substance.

If you are a person who has alcohol abuse issues (for instance, you find it hard to rufuse alcohol, you drink alone or once you begin drinking you find it hard to stop) I strongly recommend against *any* use of GHB or its analogues.

Due to the similarity between alcohol and the G experience it would seem that certain individuals find it much harder to discontinue use of G, much as they would with alcohol. If you are such a person you run a *much* higher risk of succumbing to G addiction than the average person.

As such it would seem wise that individuals in this situation avoid G.

To give an example, AFOAF began using GBL because he wanted an alternative to alcohol, because he had alcohol abuse issues. He developed WD symptoms within days, but continued using because he did not attribute those symptoms to the GBL (certain online documents claimed it was non-addictive, it seems). He was addicted to GBL for 4 months after that, and once he was clean (he suffered the worst case of WD's from any substance that the hospital staff had ever seen, he tells me; apparently there were stages where they told his family he could be dead in hours, or that he might be permanently brain-dead) his alcohol abuse issues were *much* worse (due to PAWS); up to the point that a psychiatrist told him he could expect alcohol WD's were he to stop drinking.

Luckily this acquaintace is okay now, but his story should serve as a warning to anyone with alcohol abuse issues who is considering using G in any context.

[MrG]

Alcoholics have been successfully treated in Europe for a number of years now by the administration of a tailored GHB regime.

GBL, on the other hand, should not be being taken in any chronic use scenario as its withdrawal's are, reportedly, significantly harder hitting than GHB.

Chronic (multiple doses per day, all day, every day) GBL use is going to start causing problems long before a similar GHB intake would (not that chronic GHB use is recommended either). Whether this is due to the mechanism of action, or simply because users tend to consume a disproportionately larger amount (GBL converting to GHB in-vivo) is unclear.

The treatment of alcoholism in Europe with GHB has shown a great success rate through the proper development of a treatment plan and ongoing help through support programs for alcoholics.

Simply self-medicating with GHB (or worse, GBL) to treat an alcoholism problem is, as mentioned, reckless at best. But do not believe for one minute that GHB could not be the answer for a great many alcoholics, as long as it is under a properly supervised regime with the appropriate support.

GHB is not in any way a "moreish" substance. Unlike certain narcotic stimulants or opiates, which can quite easily create an addiction problem in an otherwise normal person, GHB does not lend itself to the same usage patterns.

Chronic use of GHB is often a result of self-medication for General Anxiety Disorders (panic attacks, social phobia etc.). The problem being that, whilst a user may take multiple small doses throughout the day in order to alleviate their anxiety, it does not actually solve the problem of how to cure the GAD. In this case, the user should seek to be getting treatment for the underlying problem before their GHB use becomes problematic.

The same stands for alcoholics. Whilst some may choose to self-medicate in order to help quit alcohol, the benefit in treating the physical aspects of their alcoholism is often lost by there being no attempt at treating the underlying reason for their need to be intoxicated.

Malsat, I'm somewhat confused by your reference to your friend's WD symptoms within days of beginning his GBL use. Can you explain further?

[lesbos]

It is supposed to read (cut and paste please):

Hi. Excellent and informative posts Malsat and MrG, although slightly opposing views as usual

In an attempt to console the two perspecives, may I add the following:

Please excuse my blatant laziness in failing to provide any refenrences whatsoever durning this post.

SWIM has, in the past, crossed the line between alcohol use into abuse / dependance.

Although very commonly Alcohol dependency is developed due to self medication for a whole spectrum of psycological ills (the anxiety disorders GAD, SAD, to numb the pain of recent events - PTST etc), there are people who get drunk too often for even more disturbing reasons:

1) Because they like being drunk
2) Because they can

SWIM was in this section of the alcohol dependant. To further inforce my point here..SWIM did not suffer from social anxiety or generalised anxiety when sober, but duringperiods of heavy drinking he would. Even after this realization, he still chose to continue drinking during these dark times.

Although GHB can doubtless be a beneficial treatment for alcoholism when used in a controlled manner (IMO restricting availability would be crucial, to allow a downwards tapering schedule rather than upwards), please consider the following:

1) This treatment is only availably in Europe
2) GBL is still freely (if you know where to look) available in Europe
3) What would possibly occur upon the release of patients from the addiction clinic, upon which time they would be able to obtain almost unlimited quantities of GBL, and therefore GHB (if they posessed at least half a brain).

@ MrG - I believe GHB is not a 'moreish' drug to most people. However please consider the fact that alcohol is not a 'moreish' drug to those who do not suffer with alcoholism. SWIM tells me that a definite cross tolerance exists between G and alcohol. IMO it would therefore follow that larger volumes of either drug would be consumed by an alcoholic.

@ Malsat - Despite my cross tolerance statement above, I believe for withdrawal symptoms to be experienced by SWIY, a truly excessive quantity would be required to cause withdrawal.

[malsat]

MrG, this post was aimed towards people with alcohol abuse issues who might be considering the use of G as a 'healthier' replacement for alcohol, in a self-medication perspective. Anyone with these issues who could succeed in beginning a medically controlled GHB program would have the guidance of a medical practitioner and limited supplies of GHB, thus naturally limiting the potential for problems.

A person with these issues who had read the glowing reports on the treatment of alcohol abuse with GHB and who decided that they could treat the issue themselves - these are the people to whom my post was aimed - would, I believe, be greatly at risk with regard to compulsive use and addiction issues with GHB or its analogues; particularly the more widely available analogue, which we know causes quicker plasma peaks and is thus more addictive (the issue is not administration of 'higher doses' but more rapid peaks in plasma levels, as with any psychoactive). As people in this situation are more likely to obtain that particular analogue, naturally it is wise to advise that such people avoid it

As I'm only an acquaintance of the individual to whom I refer I can't give the full story, but my understanding is that the person in question initially felt compelled to use for a period of 16-18 hours and subsequently suffered anxiety and paranoia, sweats and 'discomfort' for the next 12 hours at which point the person resumed dosing of GBL. This person had problems with alcohol before using GBL to such an extent that were they to begin drinking they would feel compelled to do so until they passed out.