Adderall stopped working?? Any ideas???

[superwoman]

This is Swim's first post. Swim is hoping to get some answers. Please advise if you can...

Swim has been using Adderall and Ritalin for work now off and on (as the supply is never steady). Adderall has historically been Swims favorite of the two. Just recently, Swim was prescribed Ritalin (10mg IR 3x a day). That script did not last long at all (about 10 days or so). Since then Swim has come into some 10mg Adderall (instant release). But for whatever reaason Swim can barely notice a difference (even at 70-80 mg a day). The Ritalin helped but was extremely short lasting, but now the Adderall is not working for Swim . Any ideas why?

Also Swim likes to snort her Rits and Addies, but snorting the Addies doesn't do anything for her. She also takes a few orally but prefers the rush of snorting things. So... any ideas on why the Adderall doesn't work for her anymore? Swim is dying to know... Thanks for any help or similar experiences anyone can provide!

[superwoman]

Swim would like to add that her Ritalin still works (even if only for an hour or so) so why wouldn't real amps (as in Adderall)??


Swim would greatly appreciate any input/thoughts or even similar experiences... or even some sympathy! lol

[Beanfondler]

Swiy've likely developed a tolerance high enough that the noticeable effects that Swiy was originally familiar with given the lower doses of amphetamine are no longer so evident, thats what happens but they haven't lost effect. Thats the case for Swibf and most everyone they are familiar with at least. The likely reason the methylphenidate is still exhibiting those effects is probably due to a lesser tolerance and the different mode of action.

[superwoman]

Originally Posted by Beanfondler

Swiy've likely developed a tolerance high enough that the noticeable effects that Swiy was originally familiar with given the lower doses of amphetamine are no longer so evident, thats what happens but they haven't lost effect. Thats the case for Swibf and most everyone they are familiar with at least. The likely reason the methylphenidate is still exhibiting those effects is probably due to a lesser tolerance and the different mode of action.

Swim would normally chalk it up to tolerance also, but the doses she normally used when taking adderall would range from 20mg to about 40mg, but after her Ritalin script, she was taking 70-90mg of Adderall and even then she didn't feel anything like her previous lower doses...
Could the increased tolerance to Ritalin have an effect on her tolerance to Adderall?

[Beanfondler]

Its more likely that only the euphoric effects aren't felt, the other effects wouldn't be gone entirely.

[kaczynski]

Yeah, with increased tolerance the euphoria is usually lost. SWIY could try going a week or two without taking any then start up again to see if there's any difference.

[gilligan_911]

yep. if swiy really did slam a scrip in 10 days then your tolerance is a bit higher than swiy might like to believe. swim had to come to grips with this himself today when he realized that after 5 days of taking 20-40mg hydrocodone and not being able to feel 15mg this morning, that he might have just the teeniest bit of tolerance. swim would recommend that since swiy said you get them on and off, save them. then a week or so later take a 20mg dose and check back with us. swim is pretty sure swiy will be quite the happy camper.

[phillylocal]

or SWIY could try drinkkng a solution of baking soda and water before ingesting her adderall. (About 1tsp baking soda). this potentiates the effect of adderall.

Also, try to stay away from acidic substances while taking adderall, they decrease the bio availability (essentially).

[GForce]

If SWIY wants to attempt to reduce first-pass metabolism by alkalizing her stomach than there are better substances to do it with than baking soda. Yes, baking soda is highly basic, but a few tums, pepto, or some other med with calcium carbonate in it can have a strong impact on protecting more amphetamine molecules in SWIY's stomach (in comparison to nothing). I don't have any data about specific pH levels and first-pass metabolism rates, but I would expect diminished returns for increasing amounts of basic substances. That is, controlling the pH in the stomach by maybe 1 or 2 will save 50% of what would otherwise be destroyed in first-pass, when increasing pH by 3 or 4 might only save 60%. (CAVEAT: I made these numbers up for the purpose of the example, I don't know the figures on first-pass amphetamine metabolism) It would be inevitable because there is a definite pH value in which amphetamines aren't broken down, or broken down at a minimum, so the closer to that number SWIY is at the less increased pH will be beneficial.

As for tolerance, expect it to grow rapidly. The first time I was perscribed Adderall I could take 15mg and be in an absolute state of euphoria. Nowadays I have titrated up to 60mg instant release for therapeutic use (and made my doctor aware) and the effects of that dose are nothing compared to what 15mg used to feel like. That being said, SWIY shouldn't expect to regain the "magic" from Adderall without a serious tolerance break.

[phillylocal]

very interesting you mention pepcid....

I am not in the USA right now, actually on vacation, and I bought some Pepcid the other day, just for a little experiment and I found that it didn't really work (as well as baking soda...but then again, I'm having trouble translating all the instructions for proper dosage.)

But the mad scientist will continue trials and report back, as he FRIGGIN hates the taste of baking soda water...holy moley that's so effin grose.

[Beachhead]

Originally Posted by phillylocal

But the mad scientist will continue trials and report back, as he FRIGGIN hates the taste of baking soda water...holy moley that's so effin grose.

Really, just one tablespoon of baking soda tastes that bad? I can't fathom that, though in a day or two I'm gonna try swallowing a tbl. of baking soda mixed with water just to see how it tastes.

BTW, if you google keywords, "adderall baking soda", you'll get a bunch of information that talks about mixing Adderall with baking soda. It appears as if mixing baking soda with Adderall really does enhance it's effects, according to some people. I've never tried mixing baking soda with Adderall and so I have to consider a claim touting its benefits to be total hearsay until proven otherwise.

[GForce]

The point I'm making is that it isn't the mixture of baking soda and Adderall that potentates the effects of Adderall. It is the fact that baking soda alkalizes your stomach to make the pH more survivable for amphetamine molecules. Amphetamine molecules that are destroyed in your stomach aren't metabolized because your stomach doesn't absorb nutrients. That being said, you can alkalize your stomach in a number of less crude ways.

[Beachhead]

Originally Posted by GForce

That being said, you can alkalize your stomach in a number of less crude ways.

Less crude? When you say "less crude," do you mean better tasting? Or something that tastes better than baking soda? I just swallowed 2 tablespoons of baking soda mixed with 4 ounces of water. It didn't taste too bad. It was tolerable. It kind of reminded me of pancake batter, though not as tasty. Not as tasty as pancake batter, but tolerable. Hey, at least it didn't make me throw up. And I didn't have to close my eyes and force it down. It went down the hatch pretty easily. I'm not in bed, I've been up for about four hours. But maybe my taste buds are still sleeping?

Originally Posted by superwoman

...but now the Adderall is not working for swim. Any ideas why?

We need to know if swim is using generic Adderall or name-brand Adderall. Please let us know. Knowing the answer to this question will help us help swim.

Beachhead added 236 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

Update/several hours later 1:37pm PST/May 30, 2008: as noted above I was able to swallow 2 tablespoons of baking soda quite easily without being repulsed by the taste. Note that several minutes later I had to use the rest room to defecate, or drop a load of number two. My stool was much looser than normal, not diahharea-like, but almost. I did not have any stomach pain. I did not consider the loose stool to be something severe or discomforting. All of the aformentioned happened again several hours later, so it appears as if a loose stool goes hand in hand with ingesting baking soda.

[GForce]

By less crude I mean using a pharmaceutical designed to do the job. Personally I'm not going to eat baking soda to get more messed up from Adderall, even if it tasted like all those delicious foods it absorbs the odor from in my refrigerator. It just seems a bit ridiculous when you can take a few Tums or Pepto, two medications I'm never without because of how effective they are at treating indigestion or just an upset stomach from any number of things. On the other hand, the only baking soda I have is absorbing odors in my refrigerator because I don't normally keep a recreational stash of baking soda on hand.

[Beachhead]

Originally Posted by GForce

Personally I'm not going to eat baking soda to get more messed up from Adderall.

Messed up? Tough to discern in this form of communication, but does your swim find Adderall totally unappealing? Or loathsome? Kind of sounds like it...

If so, please share your thoughts on why your swim prefers to shun Adderall.

[GForce]

I've just been prescribed it for a while now so trying to use it recreationally would be either fruitless or require a large dose which would be both wasteful and dangerous. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Adderall. I just get the most utility out of it by using it to actually help me do my work. I wouldn't have made it to what is now my fourth and final year of undergrad school at a top university without it. There is no doubt I have ADHD but it isn't so severe that I need the medication all the time. I usually take Adderall when I'm specifically planning on doing an assignment or if I know I'll need it for an exam. With how quickly tolerance builds from Adderall I use it only during essential tasks, otherwise it would probably stop working all together in helping me focus on the task in front of me. I've already had to increase each instant release dose from 20mg to 40mg just to get a good work attitude going, so I try not to build more tolerance.

So don't think I'm shunning Adderall. This is the board I'm most active on in this forum because I love the medication. (I wrote the FAQ and the Wiki... ironically on Adderall) It has substantially helped me, but in terms of recreation, I've moved on. There was nothing like the euphoria from the first couple of times. So I think you misinterpreted my tone from my earlier post, but that could be equally my fault.

[superwoman]

Originally Posted by Beachhead

We need to know if swim is using generic Adderall or name-brand Adderall. Please let us know. Knowing the answer to this question will help us help swim.

Both actually. The generic just said "mixed amphet salts" on the bottle. Swim just finds it odd and moreso disappointing that swim's methylphenidate tolerance screwed up her actual amphetamine tolerance, since they are not the same drug.

Also- Swim religously uses the antacid method before every dose since reading about it here, although she doesn't seem to notice much of a difference. But Swim will continue since so many of Swiyou's swear by it!

[Beanfondler]

For it to have a profound affect on the duration it must be done properly. Swibf always consumes his sodium bicarbonate as a completely saturated H2O solution at least 1.5hrs in advance and repeats the consumption of 100-500ml every 3hrs depending on what his porcelain throne's litmus check report back to him. Swibf also is inclined to think that the use of sodium bicarbonate is superior to actual bases present in most antacids. The reason for this is Swibf doesn't want his PH manipulation to be too drastic or the many different ways in which his body can correct this will go into action. One would consume it in solution so the action is faster and more uniform, sodium bicarbonate in solution is 6.3PH so thus its consumption is met with not with much disturbance. Other quality ways of raising the ph of Swiy's fluids would be to acquire both a respiratory and urinary tract infection.

[silent545]

Originally Posted by superwoman

This is Swim's first post. Swim is hoping to get some answers. Please advise if you can...

Swim has been using Adderall and Ritalin for work now off and on (as the supply is never steady). Adderall has historically been Swims favorite of the two. Just recently, Swim was prescribed Ritalin (10mg IR 3x a day). That script did not last long at all (about 10 days or so). Since then Swim has come into some 10mg Adderall (instant release). But for whatever reaason Swim can barely notice a difference (even at 70-80 mg a day). The Ritalin helped but was extremely short lasting, but now the Adderall is not working for Swim . Any ideas why?

Also Swim likes to snort her Rits and Addies, but snorting the Addies doesn't do anything for her. She also takes a few orally but prefers the rush of snorting things. So... any ideas on why the Adderall doesn't work for her anymore? Swim is dying to know... Thanks for any help or similar experiences anyone can provide!

SWIM did a lot of research on this subject after noticing his adderall xr's that he had been crushing up and snorting were no longer giving him that rush he was so familiar with. He decided it was time to figure out the whole tolerance thing after snorting 90mgs at a time and not getting a rush. SWIM is very educated in psychology especially on the subject of drugs. Tolorance is not as simple as just saying "the more of a drug u do and the more time in a row u do it the stronger the tolorance gets". Your brain adapts over time to the several different mechanisms of action the drug has, such as the release of dopamine. It's extremely complicated and can be very different for every person. Overtime one of the most dramatic adaptations your brain usually makes with the use of amphetamine is to the neurotransmitter Norepinephrine which is responsable for most of the physical rush. Tolorance builds up fast to that and sticks. A lot of times people will increase their dose more and more looking for that rush eventually doing too much and get very restless, anxious, and often panic making for a very difficult experience that can last more than a day. This happend because although tolorance to the norepinephrine effect builds fast, tolorance to the dopamine effect is much slower and in many cases will reverse leading to sensitization. dopamine is actually what makes ur heart race and at a certain point it leads to anxiety, insomnia, and psychosis. However it is what u get the euphoric effects from. So SWIM reccomends that SWIY try other ways of doing it and to not expect the rush, just relax and SWIY should learn to appreciate the more subtle euphoria. Also SWIY could try engaging in certain activities like socializing and music to enhance the euphoria. A good way to get reverse tolorance is to repetitively dose at a specific interval it could be over the same day or every day or evey week even, studies have shown with animals that even lengths very far apart causes sensitization. Just remember its only to the psychological aspects and SWIM doubts SWIY will have much luck getting that rush effect anymore.