How powerful is the stub right below the poppy pod?

[Ididnotinhale]

Swim knows that the stem is 1/2 as powerful as the pod.(please correct swim if he is wrong)

But, who powerful is the base of the pod that is often taken off?

Is it worth leaving on when making tea?

Swim has a box full of these and is wondering how much he would need to make a powerful tea. (swim uses about 30 large pods usually)

thanks

[samuraigecko]

The stem "can be up to" 50% strength of the poppy pod itself, but not always.

The stem refers only to the last 10cm of the stem before the pod.

The "nub" (bulbous base of the poppy pod) to which SWIyou refer contains significant alkaloids and should be ground up into CPS matter along with all of the other plant matter, SWIM knows of no one whom removes this part of the plant.

The whole plant (except for the root system) actually contains the specific alkaloids wanted for pharmaceutical use but is only around 1% of the total wanted alkaloids in the plant. The last 10cm of the stem and the pod itself (including the nub) contain the remaining 99% of the wanted alkaloids.

Hope this has been of help

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good addition 2 thread & answer of the op :)
	fantastic info on where the alkaloids/"goodies" are in poppy straw

[Ididnotinhale]

thanks for the nub information. I tried to give you some love, but you were the last person I hearted so it wouldn't let me.

Ididnotinhale added 6 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

When you say all other plant material do you mean the stem too? The stem just seems to take up room in the already full french press.

[samuraigecko]

One does not actually have to use the stem at all, however one means the 1st 10cm of the stem below the pod.

It is said to be best to dry it all out and make a powder for use in extraction, this is known in the legal poppy industry as CPS (concentrated poppy straw) and when extracted into a solution is usually referred to here as CPS solution.

Hope this has been of help

[0utrider]

sry swim didnt get that, is this CPS now just the pod + 10cm stem under it, or the whole plant material?

[HomerK]

CPS is the poppy pod extracted in water.

[samuraigecko]

As explained in MANY threads now. . . . .

CPS = Concentrated poppy straw.

This is the pod and the first 10cm of the stem attached to the pod in a dried and powdered form (preferably de-seeded).

CPS solution is the same plant material in an extracted aqueous form.

Hope this has helped

[Morocco]

Samurai, is it best to let the pods dry on the plant, or to cut them soon after the leaves drop, when the sap is flowing (the time when traditionalists would lance the pods for harvest) and then pulp them while green?
Many thanks
MOROCCO

Morocco added 19 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...

Just read elsewhere Dr Haldol saying that freezing the fresh stuff is better for extraction because it damages the cells. Makes sense, but does that still rate higher in terms of releasing the content than drying the pods on the plant before extracting?

Swim will be using plain hot water extraction as per your earlier advice. This is a long time away, though. His plants from the imported seeds are still just a twinkle in their mother's eye, since he has to wait till he moves to his new home around end July and hope a mid-winter planting will survive (Southern Hemisphere).

Swim sends his love to all.

MOROCCO

[minniet]

Morocco has a question SWIM has too.

Samurai, is it best to let the pods dry on the plant, or to cut them soon after the leaves drop, when the sap is flowing (the time when traditionalists would lance the pods for harvest) and then pulp them while green?

SWIM wonders too

[0utrider]

it is best to harvest 2 weeks after flowering, increasing the alkaloids present is possible by letting the plant dehydrate a bit before harvest. drying on the plants is not good afaSWIMk since the plant starts concentrating of seed production rather than alkaloids (or so..). also alkaloids might be decomposing.
soon after the leaves drop is also not a good idea, like SWIY you said, the farmers do that when scraping of the sap, but they also do that a few times, thus coming close to the 2 weeks time

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Always a keen and bright member! Good stuff.
	good info on best times to harvest poppies

[Ganja Joe]

drying on the plants is not good afaSWIMk since the plant starts concentrating of seed production rather than alkaloids (or so..)

Outriderx, I've read that harvesters wait to cut poppies (heads and stems) off or start cutting/scraping the latex at 10 days after the flower leaves fall off.

10-14 days after the leaves fall off... there are no seeds in the pod at this time, right?

If SWIM wanted to get seeds for next years planting, how long do you let the pods stay uncut? Okay, so once you finally do cut the pods off, break them open to get the seeds, there's still goodies in the pod/stem right? Just not as strong/concentrated as 10-14 days after the leaves fall off, right?

[joojoo99]

To the original question: Yes, the bulky bit connecting the stem to the pod has alot of goodies, but it depends on how your pods were cut in the first place. The strength of the bits are about 1/5 of the pod it self if the pod was cut they way swim thinks it was. Its hard to pulverize them, so just put all of them in a large jar, add hot water, and leave over night and shake once in a while and drink the liquid in the morning. You can do this twice and get similar results as with the tea, sometimes stronger depending on how many you used.

To the second unrelated question: Its best to lance when the crown has erected or raised slightly. This is an indicator that the pod has juiced up.

[0utrider]

10-14 days after the leaves fall off... there are no seeds in the pod at this time, right?

well there are dıfferent types of poppıes, the one that opens and basıcally 'kıcks out' the seeds and the other one that leaves them ın.
eıtherway ıf waıted 10-14 days some pods wıll have lost (some) seeds (mazbe all) but also many wıll stıll have a lot ıf not all, and well enough for the next season ıf planted ın the proper way

however one more ındıcator for rıpeness ıs, saıd by some, they are saıd to be rıpe ıt the 'crown' on the top poınts upwars (whıch ıs usually thıs 10-14 days thıng)
be aware that professıonal farmers work dıfferently sınce they have f.e. the tıme to scrape several tımes whereas most swımmers only can pıck ıt once at the rıght tıme, sınce scrapıng ısnt worth ıt, but rather makıng a tea ıs better.

never heard of lettıng the stuff dry on the plants for 'medıcınal' purposes (and hıghest yıeld whıle not scrapıng)

[Handle]

Pod +10cm

I second that emotion.

[samuraigecko]

This can be a matter of theoretical preference.

Usually in the legal opiate farming industry, poppy straw is made by waiting until the leaves (not the flower petals) start to die off and the pod has swollen to maximum capacity.

The plant is then cut (10cm of stem and the pod)

Then the plants are placed in a drying shed (alkaloid degradation does not occur unless moisture is present)

The resulting poppy straw is then reduced to CPS or "concentrated poppy straw". This is just powdered poppy straw.

This is then made into solution by normal extraction methods explained here without the evaporation step. This CPS solution is then barreled for transportation to pharmaceutical laboratories for further processing into pill forms and IV forms for the masses to enjoy when they visit a doctor or hospital.

Hope this has helped.

[curiouser]

SWIM absolutely cannot stand the sound that the dried (yes, 10 cm) stems and especially the nubs make in SWIM's cheap-ass coffee grinder (does the NYT hyphenate cheap-ass? SWIM must check. or SWIY can!), so SWIM saved them all up for a rainy day. Well, SWIM has been using Samuraigecko's SWIH heroically complete method of CFO and SWIM started thinking:
When SWIM gets done cooking it, SWIM has extracted every last bit of goodness from that straw. It makes SWIM wonder why SWIM bothered to grind up the pods. For the CFO method - why? SWIM understands doing that for simple tea, surface area and all that but not when SWIY are going to steep/underboil the hell out of it. And every little cloud of poppy powder represents a minute - but MEASURABLE! on SOME scale! - loss. (SWIM uses staticky-plastic-transparencies like those used to make up an overhead presentation and SWIM immediately pops them on as lids whenever SWIM performs ANY transfer of ground poppy. And then - out of respect for the life-affirming poppy, SWIM uses a clean dry paintbrush to lovingly sweep every speck of poppy dust into the pot. (SWIM also keep a tiny Buddha nearby with a tiny poppyseed offering set in front of him out of respect for pain AND painkillers! (Actually, SWIM just had a mystic revelation!: the Buddha's name is. . . SWIM!!)
So with that fully-extracted-lifeless cooked straw in mind, SWIM cooked up an all-stem batch. SWIM followed the usual procedure BUT since SWIM is now familiar with the texture/vibration/whatever that the liquid has when it is fully saturated, SWIM could tell that unground stem and nubs need MORE water and MORE cooking time. So SWIM provided lots more of both (cooked about 5 hours!) until the liquid had the full look of pods-only CFO brew. But still cooked it down to the original water level, i.e. 10 ml of water for every gram of dry raw material.
SWIM's ready to evap it and then SWIO shall see, SWIM's little pretty ones, what it is SWIO have so longly and lovingly brewed up!!! SWIM has to say that post-cooking, vibrationally and visually it's exactly the same brew. But evap will tell the tale. To Evap, and Beyond!

[wayner57]

swim was wondering if the crowns on the pods can be discarded? swim doesn't think there is much if any dried latex in that part, thats on dried pods.

swim was also wondering if swiys have looked closely at the redish/brown dust that comes out of the pods with the seeds, it is exactly the same color as dried latex!! if so swim can see why some claim that seeds can be so potent with that dried latex dust surrounding them.

perhaps one day swim will wash his seeds to find out.

[jwantbeer]

My neighbors dog got a big box of pods from Canada and removed all the stems ( they would destroy his Chi-Com blender ) but he saved them and made a tea with them. He used the Tek method and also did a second simmer to make sure he got all the alkaloids. When using his usuall starting dose he found that the tea was half the potency. Not a complaint, he was glad to have extracted more goodies.

[Mr_Happy]

SWIM cannot verify by numbers, but a day or two after all of his pods were gone, yes I know a horrible thing, he was feeling kind of.. sore. Swim had about 50 stems with the knobs attached. He went through the chopping procedure in a coffee grinder, which made a horrible noise and could only get them so fine. Tea was made in the normal way..and..the effects were noticeable. In Swim's opinion it was about 40% of his regular tea, which he told me consists of 8-12 Large ( greater than 4 inches, no greater than 5 ). Swim tells me that dose is enough to get him at about 6-7 out of 10, with a 10 being the all-to-familiar nod. That is what he told me happened, and he also said that it made him feel better, especially his aching back and legs.

On a side note, a day or two after Swim used the stubs, he again was sore. He used the stems in the usual tea manner and told me that he would rate that at about 20-30% of his usual dose of tea.

So in retrospect, if 8-12 Large pods gets Swim to a 6 or 7 out of 10.
50 stem stubs gets him about a 3 - 4 out of 10.
50 stems gets him about 2 out of 10.

The latter of the two, he tells me, is enough to feed the monkey on his back for a day, and the next day leave the monkey's stomach barely growling.

First post, how did I do?

Reputation Comments on this post:

great first post; esp on the use of SWIM as a Newbie!

[morphed]

The butterfly's never used only pods vs. only the nubs to compare, so she doesn't rightly know. It'll never be an exact thing though. She just throws the nubs in with the pods.

For grinding the nub down, the butterfly first cuts it into smaller pieces with wire cutters. Makes it much easier to grind them down in a coffee grinder.

SWIwayner57, the butterfly thinks that the red/brown dust are immature seeds. Whenever she's done seed washes, those small particles are still with the seeds after filtering. If it were dried latex, it should've dissolved.

[wayner57]

Originally Posted by morphed

the butterfly thinks that the red/brown dust are immature seeds. Whenever she's done seed washes, those small particles are still with the seeds after filtering. If it were dried latex, it should've dissolved.

swim agrees, and thanks the butterfly! swim doesn't use the seeds or crowns and the only stem is to the stub when making CPT.

[gmeziscool2354]

the bulb is great, but swim has found the inside to be where the magic is. if you have a powerful enough grinder, grind them to a dust. most cofee grinders are not strong enough, however, so try beating them w/a clean hammer or mallet first