Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone Prevents Tolerance and Addiction

[whorse]

"This diary details my experience with ultra low dose naltrexone, and its effects on opioid side effects and tolerance. Spanning a period of three months, and different dosages of both opioid agonists and naltrexone, this comprehensive journal reveals my thoughts on this experimental medicine as each day goes by."
-Dr. Mike Strates.
http://web.archive.org/web/200412071...tx-trial.shtml

Apparently when one takes an ultra low dose of naltrexone (under .000001 grams, or one microgram) with any recreational opiate, the naltrexone blocks off certain (delta?) receptors in the opioid receptors in the brain. Ordinarily these receptors would react to the opiate in such a way that would lead to tolerance and physical addiction. If the naltrexone dose is low enough, the critical mu receptor is unblocked and euphoria can still be obtained from the opiate, while tolerance is in some cases reduced and addiction is slowed massively. Does this mean if SWIM takes .03 micrograms of naltrexone with his 20 mg of oxycodone he can keep taking that same small dosage every time and still feel the same effects? And SWIM could stop cold turkey any time SWIM wants?

This is extremely interesting to SWIM. SWIM has a bottle of 50mg Naltrexone right now, so he decided to break the 50mg pill in half and dissolve it in 1 liter of water (SWIM probably should have used vinegar or some citric fruit juice). 25mg naltrexone in one liter equals 25 micrograms per mL. SWIM has a dropper which drips exactly 20 drops of any liquid when filled to 1 mL. This means that one drop of the solution from the dropper contains roughly under 1 microgram of naltrexone. Now all SWIM needs is a load of opiates to take every day and see if any tolerance or addiction forms with the ULD naltrexone, because he doesn't actually have anything right now.

Here is another drug in production called Oxytrex. It has oxycodone with an ultra low dose of naltrexone, and is said to be non-addictive:
http://opioids.com/tolerance/oxytrex.htm

Reputation Comments on this post:

Amazing find. Definately groundbreaking info in the world of Opiate Tolerance/Dependence research.

[Spare Chaynge]

hahaha very interesting.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	just awful attitude
	worthless

[whorse]

Well I think this is pretty significant. Like one of the most important things to ever happen to opiates. A way to nearly stop addiction entirely and actually LOWER tolerance WHILE taking more opiates?

whorse added 74 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

here's an interesting account of this I found on bluelight:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...=372896&page=2

Originally Posted by Cretination

Ok guys! I just made a solution of 0.001mg/ml (1 mcg/ml) naltrexone hcl and plan on trying it (I'm thinking 1ml - any feedback??) with about $10 of NE #4 once I get home from work. This isn't any sort of controlled or measured experiment in anyway, I just wanna satisfy my curiosity about the acute effects (if any) of this combination. Tick tick tock!

and later

Originally Posted by Cretination

Anyway, the past 7 days I have been doing ULD naltrexone with each shot of heroin. I have also gotten 3 of my friends (also daily users) to do the same. I'm still experimenting with dosing but so far I (as well as my 3 friends) have had INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL results with using ~1-2mcg with each shot of heroin. Here are effects I have noticed (each of my friends claim to get these same effects):

TOLERANCE
I had gotten up to at least $20 #4 per shot to even feel slight effects from heroin. I was up to about 3-4 shots per day. AS SOON as I starting adding 1mcg naltrexone to my shots I have been catching extreme nods (like never ever before) from $8 of #4 per shot.

Not only has my previous tolerance been obliterated, it does not increase either; if I shoot $8 worth at 10am then another $8 2 hours later the rush is ALL THERE. No decrease in effects with subsequent dosing; each shot is like the first shot of my life no matter how much I've done that day.

CRAVING
Previously shooting junk would almost immediately induce cravings to do more and more and more junk. With naltrexone I experience NO craving to do more heroin at all.

WITHDRAWL
I have yet to experience WD since I've started doing naltrexone with my dope. Yes I have taken enough time off and have felt no signs of WD as well as no cravings when abstinent.

Again this is with doses of 1-2mcg per shot of dope, WITHOUT skipping the naltrexone at all with any of my heroin shots. Even after a week I am still nodding HARD (yes right now in fact) from ~$10 of NE #4.

Feel free tp ask me any q's at all i gott go though i cant keep my eyes open but holy shit i have NEVER nodded this hard from$8 of jj

Originally Posted by CretiNation

Also the high is a bit different. The rush is full and immediate but the high continues to grow until about 20-30mins when it seems to peak and this is where the serious nodding starts to take place. I will never use chronic opioids without ULD naltrexone again.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great research

[ihavequestions]

definetly interesting. the problem with opiates though is that physical dependence isnt the only issue here. there is also psychological dependence. swim says that if it feels good then the person is gonna like to do it (obviousely) and now with no risk of a physical dependence it makes swim wonder how much more often a person uses an ultra low dose to be able to use opiates more often. in which case the mental part of addiction may get worse. after all the whole point of an ultra dose naltrexone is to enable a person to use more frequnetly. it then makes it there intention.

either way though, definetlyl interesting that it can block a physical dependence like that it could make detox for an addict that much easier if they ever need help.

[Paracelsus]

Highly interesting. But touting it as a fact is unwarranted if you can not provide real data (articles in peer-reviewed journals) on humans, not rats or other animals. Can you?

[whorse]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

Highly interesting. But touting it as a fact is unwarranted if you can not provide real data (articles in peer-reviewed journals) on humans, not rats or other animals. Can you?

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17705104
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...114475eebcdd90

is what I could find with a quick google search.

Pain Therapeutics, the company behind Oxytrex, has been conducting tests with humans for a while now. You can find several publications on this page:
http://www.paintrials.com//publications.html

and a summary here:
http://www.biospace.com/news_story.aspx?StoryID=869

Reputation Comments on this post:

potentially groundbraking find, interesting at least

[JJx23]

So basically SWIM is using opiates along with this opiate antagonist, etc and they still work? Interesting. I still don't totally understand completely, but I will read up more about this, sounds very interesting.

Regards.

[Paracelsus]

Interesting, but the information is still relatively weak. There is only a self-experiment by Jonathan Ott on two persons, a case report, and data from a pharmaceutical company that wants/wanted to bring such a product on the market. Definitely not what one would expect from a supposedly ground-breaking discovery, but it would be interesting to find out more about this.

[whorse]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

Interesting, but the information is still relatively weak. There is only a self-experiment by Jonathan Ott on two persons, a case report, and data from a pharmaceutical company that wants/wanted to bring such a product on the market. Definitely not what one would expect from a supposedly ground-breaking discovery, but it would be interesting to find out more about this.

That data from Pain Therapeutics was published in several nationally syndicated, peer-reviewed medical journals. The data is several years old and has yet to be contradicted by any new research nor contested by anyone else in the scientific community. I just don't see how or why something this elaborate and embedded in the legal system would be falsified... the tests they did are double blind studies involving over 700 different patients... I understand your skepticism, this seems too good to be true, but there is a plethora of information supporting this all across the internet, from random anonymous posters like the guy I quoted from bluelight, to extremely detailed diaries of experiences like the one in my first post, to these legal, peer reviewed journal articles. This information has been known since 2002. A better question than whether ULD naltrexone works at all is why haven't we heard about it yet? Other, bigger drug companies still make a lot of money off prescribing people addictive, expensive drugs like oxycontin...

Originally Posted by outriderx

there is a naloxone / tilidine combination sold in europe (especially germany) and the naloxon prevents IV and too high doses (in theory, practically also but thats an individual thing, similar to ceiling effect with codeine). even though its not too hard to remove, most people just dont bother, since it doesnt alter the effects, well kinda (some say they are different, most dont notice any difference), but not really

BUT it did make SWIM and at least around 6 people he knows in person (plus tons in the media / internet) addicted to it, and the difference is actually quite unsignificant compared to tilidine alone. the tolerance is said to build up slower, but its not so slow that SWIM could tell a difference, just as with the addiction. he doesnt know if that also applies to other opiates, since tilidine is rather weak, but he does know, except for the IV issue, it basically doesnt change anything.

Naloxone is very, very short acting in comparison to naltrexone. Naloxone is used in the emergency room for opiate overdoses, of course, but I have heard stories from doctors of specific occasions where a person who OD'ed was treated with naloxone and released from the hospital, only to fall down dead after the naloxone wore off. The opiates stay in your system longer than the naloxone, hence why tolerance would still build if naloxone were used as a ULD antagonist like ULD naltrexone in the circumstances I'm presenting. Not to mention the naloxone is added simply to prevent abuse of the tilidine, while the use of ULD Naltrexone is being explored to prevent addiction and tolerance.

[0utrider]

there is a naloxone / tilidine combination sold in europe (especially germany) and the naloxon prevents IV and too high doses (in theory, practically also but thats an individual thing, similar to ceiling effect with codeine). even though its not too hard to remove, most people just dont bother, since it doesnt alter the effects, well kinda (some say they are different, most dont notice any difference), but not really

BUT it did make SWIM and at least around 6 people he knows in person (plus tons in the media / internet) addicted to it, and the difference is actually quite unsignificant compared to tilidine alone. the tolerance is said to build up slower, but its not so slow that SWIM could tell a difference, just as with the addiction. he doesnt know if that also applies to other opiates, since tilidine is rather weak, but he does know, except for the IV issue, it basically doesnt change anything.

[0utrider]

well tilidine has also just a halflife of a few hours, so at least for that it should have worked, shouldnt it? (but it didnt)

and just to be curious, what disease would SWIM have to need in order to get naltrexone from his doctor ?

outriderx added 1 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

btw. well the doctors think and say its not only to prevent IV but also cuz many believe it "protects" from addiction or tolerance and thus tilidine is relatively easy to get from doctors (and surprise surprise months later the news report about teenager abuse of tilidine), which is not good in SWIMs opinion.

[whorse]

Originally Posted by outriderx

well tilidine has also just a halflife of a few hours, so at least for that it should have worked, shouldnt it? (but it didnt)

and just to be curious, what disease would SWIM have to need in order to get naltrexone from his doctor ?

outriderx added 1 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

btw. well the doctors think and say its not only to prevent IV but also cuz many believe it "protects" from addiction or tolerance and thus tilidine is relatively easy to get from doctors (and surprise surprise months later the news report about teenager abuse of tilidine), which is not good in SWIMs opinion.

All I can say is naloxone is not naltrexone. I'm sure you still CAN get addicted to opiates with ULD naltrexone, but it slows the process down by a significant margin.

You probably have to be a recovering alcoholic or junkie to get prescribed naltrexone, but I'd imagine if you know anyone who has been prescribed it they'd still have some pills lying around. It isn't pleasant to take, so many people don't

[whorse]

okay SWIM finally acquired some opiates, three 8mg Suboxone (Buprenorphine) tabs. He has a pretty low tolerance so SWIM is going to start with just 2mg. SWIM will be using 1 mcg Naltrexone before each dose, I'll report back with what he'll tell me happens to him. SWIM might also be using 30mg DXM, as it is also said to stay tolerance, and a few potentiators like quinine tonic water, 600mg cimetidine, 4mg chlorpheniramine maleate (w/ the DXM, Coricidin) and some white grapefruit juice.

The only thing that worries SWIM is that there is 2mg naloxone in each Suboxone tab, so with a 2mg buprenophine dose, he's getting .5mg naloxone. SWIM doesn't know how that will interact with the ULD naltrexone. It could make him not get high at all

[Paracelsus]

If you are interesting in confirming the naltrexone hypothesis, I would suggest not using the listed potentiators, because they may make the results harder to interpret.

Regarding the naloxone in Suboxone, sublingual administration does not allow the naloxone to be absorbed (it is added to prevent injecting the pills).

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the naloxone tip!

[whorse]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

If you are interesting in confirming the naltrexone hypothesis, I would suggest not using the listed potentiators, because they may make the results harder to interpret.

Regarding the naloxone in Suboxone, sublingual administration does not allow the naloxone to be absorbed (it is added to prevent injecting the pills).

yeah, but whatever about the results... SWIM just always wants his moneys worth. SWIM took 1/4 a pill with the previously listed potentiaters + 1ug naltrexone about 6 hours ago... still nodding. Keep in mind SWIM's tolerance is extremely low. SWIM just finished watching "There will be Blood" and really doesn't remember anything about it. SWIM's going to keep doing this daily (he has enough for 11 more 2mg doses) and see if he ever needs to increase the dose to get the same effects

SWIM also gave a naltrexone pill to one of his friends, the one who sold him the suboxone. His friend is on it for detox (heroin addict), we'll see if it lowers his tolerance any and/or allows the subs to give him any kind of high

and thanks for the tip about the naloxone absorption!