Important Read...How unethical drug seller hurt me and my mind HORRIBLY. WARNING!

[Lobsang]

I thought about where to post this. I think here is appropriate as it has to do with the mind. Remember it is just a dream.



This is the story of a horrible mistake. This story is a dream and only a dream. This is the story of a dreamer. The dreamer was a doctor who delt in natural therapeutics. The doctor and his family lived in a small town in a far away land. The dreamer was considered by all to be quite rational. He was respected and well educated. He did have a hidden side however that only a small circle knew about. Since being a young teenager he had a desire for mind altering chemicals. He started off with cannibus but quickly moved to mescaline. His doors of perception were opened at 14 years old with a very high dose of organic mescaline. After that dose as a child he suffered for 2 years with HPPD. A condition where he saw trails and afterimages from objects and other visual distortions. He wondered if he would ever be normal again. Well the condition spontaneously remitted and he was fine by age 16. Well the dreamer did not let this small setback disuade him from further mind exploration. He became a daily marijuana smoker and fell in love with LSD. Time went by and college and graduate school flew by. He smoked pot evry day and despite that excelled in his field. He was quite adept at anatomy and was not unknown to be "expanded" while dissecting human bodies. Well time went by and LSD and pot were still used as he maintained a successful practice in a far away exotic land. Then came the crash.

He broke his own rules and took into his body something that he did not understand. He saw an ad on the internet for a substance called Trip2night. It was touted as an "herbal ectasy". He ordered it. Well the red pills came. He took some. He kind of liked the feeling. The made him feel happy and he got some trails and objects seemed to have a "solidity" that he had not perceived before. He started to take these pills every day. As time went by he took higher and higher doses. He did not realize it but the pills began to augment him as a person. He began over a period of time to change in his personality. He started neglecting work and got sloppy. He began to believe that he was a reincarnated Tibetan Lama. He began telling people this. He started wearing green sunglasses everywhere and believed that he could project energy from them. He began to speak in different toungues and accents. He even contacted the Tibetan Embassy and believed that a group of priests were flying from Tibet to welcome him as a new incarnate high Lama. This went on for a while. Then everything snapped.

He was so delusional that he walked right into his neighbors hous and got into a fight with a group of people using a form of martial arts that he believed he had been given as a high incarnate lama. In the days before this happened he became highly adept at balancing on things and balancing things on top of things. Friends were amazed and asked how he did this. Well anyway the dreamer ended up in jail for the fight. While in jail for 3 days he sat in the lotus position and chanted and resonated sounds that vibrated the walls of the jail. Finally he was put on a small plane and flown to the mental hospital. He was completely at a loss as to why he was there. The psychiatrist not really properly evaluating him diagnosed him with a mental disorder and really disregarded the drugs the dreamer had taken. The dreamer was given medications. The dreamer against much resistence talked his way out in 72 hours but was still convinced of his incarnate Tibetan status. The dreamer flew home. The dreamer then took more Trip2 night and became delusional again. He believed that there was going to be a "great flash" in the sky and most of the world would be destroyed. He believed that when the flash came all the houses would resonate so he bagan obsessively taking down all of the artwork in his home and puttins all breakables on the floor. To ready for the flash. He then believed that he needed to go into another country to a city 200 miles away to purchase a computer for some odd reason. He got in his SUV and started out. A few miles down the windey mountain road he had a full psychotic break from reality. He believed that the SUV was a spaceship -time machine of some type. That if he floored the accelerator he would be transported 200 miles in a second. So he did it. The SUV got up to high speed and went off the road at a curve. It shot up a 20 foot imbankment of snow and was propelled through the air but ended up back on the highway. When the SUV touched down it was destroyed. Steam was pouring out of it and the dreamer was sitting in the drivers seat disoriented. He got out and staggard around the highway. Soon some people who knew him found him and drove him home.


Well to make a long story short after this point the dreamer ran out of Trip2night but his mind was still augmented. It took months to get well. Gradually sanity returned. But great damage was done. The dreamer was investagated by the state medical board and all kinds of conditions were set. He had to go to drug rehab, have weekly drug tests and see the psychiatrist. The mind doctor was basically a nice man but knew not much about the mind and drugs. So he misdiagnosed the dreamer with bipolar disorder and a list of other disorders . All of this based primarily on his initial intake when the dreamer was psychotic and a few 10 minute visits when the dreamer still was augmented from the Trip2night or suffering from the residual effects of it. The dreamer was put on all kinds of medication from lithium to depakote to a gram of seroquel a day as well as some other high tech drug. Mind you the dreamer had no delusional issues before the Trip2night. Anyway damage was done to the dreamers practice, reputation and family. The dreamer lost all of it. The dreamer is alone now. He takes no medication and is his old self. But everything is gone. He moved from the far away land he lived in. Everything destroyed.


The dreamer never had any problems taking LSD, mushrooms, mescaline, pot in his life. But this Trip2night was a whole other ball of wax. So what was this stuff that caused all this. Well the dreamer struggled with this for years. All he knew that it was a combination of ephedra and something called "Indian bromine". Well finally a few days ago the dreamer found this forum. He asked about it. A very bright member by the name of Panthers007 kindly responded. He had the answer. The pills the dreamer took were DXM from India. This solved the puzzel for the dreamer. The dreamer went and studied DXM and found that it would in fact do all of the things that happend to the dreamer if taken at high doses for an extended period. Also the dreamer may have had a silent heart attack and kidney damage from this. The dreamer is very dissapointed with the company that sold him the pills as they said they were an all natural herbal formula. This is very very unethical behavior. They are not nice people to do such a bad thing. The dreamer does not really believe in prisons and punishments for peoples mistakes but the dreamer feels very angry toward the people. The company is not in business anymore so the dreamer can do nothing to recover anything. But what the dreamer can do is warn you about the terrible dream he had. If the dreamer had of had access to safe sacraments like LSD and mescaline he would not have used such a thing. Now ultimately the dreamer is to blame because he took the pills without fully understanding their nature. This dream was a horrible dream and is no joke. All is gone. Health care practice, wife, son, home, beachfront property and personal identity. Not good. Not good at all.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	please add spaces in your posts for ease of reading, rather then one block paragraph.
	please add line breaks. I can hardly read it as it hurts my eyes.
	Wow, thanks for sharing your story and keeping inline with rules. great read, sorry for all your losses.
	I hadn't caught this post before, sir. Your story is staggering, I cannot even begin to imagine. I can't say I can hel...
	Interesting post, with some important details on the dangers of long-term DXM use and deceptive labelling

[illume.]

damn, swim feels for the dreamer. if that happened to swim he would be very angry as well.
this furthers the argument that these companies are putting harmful substances into these pills and lying about it.

[Panthers007]

I should like to point out that the nefarious company that sold these pills claimed they were all-natural. This was BS. They contained dextromethorphan (DXM) - which they hid among the ingredients by mislabeling it as "Indian Bromine." No doubt because the DXM was synthesized in India and the DXM was supplied as it's hydrobromide salt. The crew here at Drugs-Forum heard about this sometime back and tracked it down. The pills also contained Ephedra - ephedrine - which can kill you if taken in combination with DXM. I'm pleased to say that these assholes are no longer in business. But keep an eye open - skunks like that have a tendency to re-surface.

The experience of the Dreamer in the above narrative is something that many people who have experimented with DXM can relate to. The formation of entirely new realities while on this drug - and having them stick around afterwards - is not anywhere unique to the Dreamer. But as the Dreamer was walking in blind, he was rendered especially open to a prolonged reaction. He is fortunate to be alive - considering what some of the delusions compelled him to do.And we can pin another medal on the government's War On Drugs - if these substances were legal again we could expect proper labeling of ingredients. Or a massive lawsuit. Due to the illegal/illicit nature of such, that road is blocked.

Last Analysis For Now dept: A monkey should always know exactly what is in something before they ingest it. If the label does not provide this information, or does and searching for further information (Indian Bromine) is a dead end, throw it out.

DXM can be a very useful tool if handled correctly with one's eyes wide open. Slipping it to someone without their knowledge is grounds for a capital felony.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Have this for helping Lobsang. Your post is very true.

[Raw edge]

My god that sounds like one ugly dream.

[Ragnar Danneskjöld]

"all natural herbal formula". Why are people total morons and think the word natural makes shit safe?

Deadly Nightshade and Hemlock are also natural dipshits.... go out and eat some of that.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Dhadz22

"all natural herbal formula". Why are people total morons and think the word natural makes shit safe?

Deadly Nightshade and Hemlock are also natural dipshits.... go out and eat some of that.

Well in SWIMs situation he was not hurt by something natural. He was hurt by a company that said it was natural and lied and put DXM in it. But your observation is basically correct. But also extremes like deadly nightshade and Hemlock are not permitted for use as food products.

[Ragnar Danneskjöld]

i take a tricyclic anti-depressent and i know those and SSRIs mess with DXM xps to a great degree...

I had on more than one occasion heard voices and had a mild psychosis.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Dhadz22

i take a tricyclic anti-depressent and i know those and SSRIs mess with DXM xps to a great degree...

I had on more than one occasion heard voices and had a mild psychosis.

Well DXM can also bring a full delusional psychosis by itself if taken at a very high dose and for a long time

[thealmassi1]

That sucks. But I guess it's a lesson learned to the dreamer to not buy stuff from 3rd world countries and not even know what they are ingesting into themselves. The doctor even thinks it is fine to take at increasingly high doses EVERYDAY. C"mon! I feel for you, dreamer, but damn, that's just stupidity.
Corporations put "natural" label on their products all the time, but it does not make it obligatory to put herbal ingredients in the food/drink.
Hope there's a future happy ending where the doctor finds his practice again and chooses his family over drugs.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by thealmassi1

That sucks. But I guess it's a lesson learned to the dreamer to not buy stuff from 3rd world countries and not even know what they are ingesting into themselves. The doctor even thinks it is fine to take at increasingly high doses EVERYDAY. C"mon! I feel for you, dreamer, but damn, that's just stupidity.
Corporations put "natural" label on their products all the time, but it does not make it obligatory to put herbal ingredients in the food/drink.
Hope there's a future happy ending where the doctor finds his practice again and chooses his family over drugs.

Well it was not from a "third world" country. It was from the USA. And yes the dreamer should have known exactly what was in it and did attempt research and all the elements were known except one. So yes that was a mistake. But along the same lines ultimately even with the beat sources of "street drugs" no one can be 100% sure what is in them unless they know the lab personally or make them themselves. But the chances are probably better on the street. And as far as taking increased doses every day. Well you would need to have been in the situation. After a few days the dreamer was so wacked out he was not thinking rationally. And as far as the "corporations being allowed to put DXM in a product that they SAY is natural and herbal, that is illegal and a boldfaced lie. They are Obliged to comply with what they have said the product is. Yes there is a tendency we have observed to fault the consumer when the consumer willfully takes mind altering chenicals. An "oh well....You deserve it" attitude. But if this was a situation where the dreamer purchsed it at the health food store to help with his diabetes then people would be outraged if DXM was in an "all natural herbal" product. AS far as "Happy ending". There will never be one to this. This killed the dreamer. The dreamer died in his heart when he lost everything. He is essentially dead now. There is no possible fix. All gone and all ruined. If you want to know what hell is just ask the dreamer. Some things cannot be put back together. Despite the "Rah Rah...There's always hope crowd".

[Panthers007]

Now, now - Rah Rah Lobsang - there is a new life waiting around the corner if you practice what you preach as a Tibetan Sage. I won't Rah Rah - but go ahead and kill the former and make room for something better. Being bitter is not going to help. Not you, or anyone who finds themselves in a similar predicament. Having the rug pulled out from under one's feet is a dirty trick. Now grab some nails for the carpet and let's get this story out there!

Agreed?

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

Now, now - Rah Rah Lobsang - there is a new life waiting around the corner if you practice what you preach as a Tibetan Sage. I won't Rah Rah - but go ahead and kill the former and make room for something better. Being bitter is not going to help. Not you, or anyone who finds themselves in a similar predicament. Having the rug pulled out from under one's feet is a dirty trick. Now grab some nails for the carpet and let's get this story out there!

Agreed?

Well Lobsang can and will rise to the occasion. The plane's engine is failing but the pilot can use the throttle to gain some altitude to hold off the crash but getting to a soft landing is unlikely. But other things were destroyed in the dream besides self image and loss of everything valued. Also finances. Much much debt, credit ruined. No possible way to restore. IRS attacking. So yes there is anger. But there is also practicality. You cannot break through a brick wall. And as far as Lobsangs Tibetan knowledge. It is what has kept him from saying "football season is over". Many others would have closed the season early. But Lobsang has not. Even Tibetan priests have limits in what we consider an acceptable reality that is unshiftable. So yes Lobsang can agree to put anger, bitterness and sorrow on the sideline and play a coherent game for the project.

But you will notice that the post indicating the dreamer's fault in this is exactly what we have to deal with. If in Lobsang's dream he had have gone to the healthfood store and purchased an "herbal supplement" and taken it every day and it did this everyone would be outraged. The FDA would charge in on white horses. But when someone is a "drug user" they are said to deserve what they shall get. It is similar to saying that a girl who dressed a "certain way" deserved to be raped and it would never have happened if she did not dress that way.

So fear not Lobsang will do just fine for the project. And if he does start to drift off into emotion you can simply make him aware of it and guide him back on the path. Remember even the Dali Lama was pacing the floor back and forth and rambling when he watched the Tenimen Square shootings on his TV. His friends simply guided him back on course.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent comparison between drug users and dressing provocatively. Well put.

[thealmassi1]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

Well it was not from a "third world" country. It was from the USA. And yes the dreamer should have known exactly what was in it and did attempt research and all the elements were known except one. So yes that was a mistake. But along the same lines ultimately even with the beat sources of "street drugs" no one can be 100% sure what is in them unless they know the lab personally or make them themselves. But the chances are probably better on the street. And as far as taking increased doses every day. Well you would need to have been in the situation. After a few days the dreamer was so wacked out he was not thinking rationally. And as far as the "corporations being allowed to put DXM in a product that they SAY is natural and herbal, that is illegal and a boldfaced lie. They are Obliged to comply with what they have said the product is. Yes there is a tendency we have observed to fault the consumer when the consumer willfully takes mind altering chenicals. An "oh well....You deserve it" attitude. But if this was a situation where the dreamer purchsed it at the health food store to help with his diabetes then people would be outraged if DXM was in an "all natural herbal" product. AS far as "Happy ending". There will never be one to this. This killed the dreamer. The dreamer died in his heart when he lost everything. He is essentially dead now. There is no possible fix. All gone and all ruined. If you want to know what hell is just ask the dreamer. Some things cannot be put back together. Despite the "Rah Rah...There's always hope crowd".

I'm sorry if I sounded cold and have no idea what the dreamer is truly going through.

I'm just confused if the dreamer decided to take the drugs everyday, wouldn't he at least research what is in them. Even marijuana is natural but it isn't usually beneficial to do it everyday and can lead to addiction with heavy use.

I don't have a problem with the dreamer taking mind altering chemicals, it's the high frequency with which he took the non-addictive drug. To become addicted to DXM, one has to really try to get addicted.

What i meant with the corporations and branding their products natural is that it is legal for them to put whatever ingredients they want in their product if their brand or supplier is called "Natural." This is similar to McDonald's burgers, which are branded "100% pure beef" but since thats the name of their beef supplier, they are not obligated to put any beef whatsoever in their burgers. This may be the case with the red pill sellers, but I don't even think they would bother with that technicality.

I also don't understand why a doctor would not be able to find work either. As long as there are sick people, doctors are needed. Though, the dreamer could be in a depression from his tragic experience that prevents him from working.

I just don't understand what allowed the dreamer to justify his actions, that's all. But, I truly feel for his loss.

[Lobsang]

I also don't understand why a doctor would not be able to find work either. As long as there are sick people, doctors are needed. Though, the dreamer could be in a depression from his tragic experience that prevents him from working.

That is complicated. When everthing hit the fan the state medical board found out. The dreamers wife left him. His practice was destroyed. Reputation was shot. Did not practice in the "convential" world but in a small isolated "third world" type place. So all these conditions were put on the dreamer by the medical board. The dreamer had to take all these drug tests evry week, had to go to AA meetings(Why..No alcohol issue) 4 times a week and had to see this psychiatrist who had ALL his patients on drugs. (The dremer had no mental issues whern not on DXM). SO thew freamer ended up with no home. lost family(which was his life), conditions of having to go to AA 4 times a week, drug testing, seeing quack who had him on strong drugs with all kinds of side effects like shaking and not even being able to hold a glass. So the dreamer was alone, no family, no home, going to these meetings that were so friggen stupid with people stuck in talking about the SAME old thing over and over and to top it off getting sicker and sicker from the drug side effects. The dreamer was always a happy and free soul who made his own way in life. This was a cage. In the process the dreamer got into trouble with the IRS because he could not pay them or other debt. So everything just fell apart. And even if the dreamer could fix the physical things and not have to take the drugs(which were prescribed when he was waked out on DXM and never stopped) and not have to do all the other things. He has still lost his family and is unable to live in the natural, remote rainforest town he loves with all his heart and soul. He cannot be with the animammals and the misty mountains or dance under the northern lights and smell the smells of the fires at night. So this is all not acceptable to the dreamer but the dreamer cannot change it. Everything gone and ruined. No fix possible. When one has lived the way the dreamer has captivity is not an option. And without his family there is no reason to play the life game. I know it is hard to understand but it is like taking a native from his home and culture in the Amazon rainforest and putting him in a city and forcing him to go to a right wing Fundementalist church every day. Taking him from all the culture and family and tribe he knew. So would he be "depressed". You are damn right he would. And there aint no pills that can fix that. It is easy to say get over it. Or that with your spiritual skills and knowlegde you can adapt. But it is not that easy. You cannot make oil and water mix. You can mix it for a moment by shaking but it will always seperate. So that is the answer to your question...

[radiometer]

I'm pleased to say that these assholes are no longer in business.

Are you sure about that? A quick websearch brought dozens of results for buying them.

Myself and a few other people wrote complaining to the FDA several years back when this company started marketing these products. I thought they were still on the market.

Unexpected DXM trips can be a nightmare. My buddy Eddie ate a couple of alleged 'ecstasy' pills he was sold in a NYC nightclub back in the early 90s which turned out to contain a high amount of DXM, and he still counts it as his worst drug experience ever.

[Lobsang]

Are you sure about that? A quick websearch brought dozens of results for buying them.

Well yes we have found that out. Indian Bromine is being used in a supplement called "Red Dawn". It is slickly not marketed as a "legal high" but an "energizer". We are unclear if the "indian bromine" in the current product is stll DXM. But it probably is. If it is not then they are using the "indian bromine" name to market the new product. But from what I can gather it has the same high. WE are currently in the process of cracking the entire case. I would love to talk to anyone who has recently had a friend that used the products "Red Dawn" or "Red Bliiss". Yes you can buy them on line and they probebly do contain DXM or something very close. It is interesting to note that I confronted on company on the issue of Indian Bromine and within a couple of days their website took it out of the listed ingredients. You will be hearing more about the developments in this case. As far as the FDA goes they are a paper tiger

Also if anyone knows anything or of Indian Bromine being sold in any product other than Red Bliss please let me know. Or if your cat has taken or intends to take Red Bliss or Red Dawn please let me know what ity felt like.

[stoneinfocus]

This is typical: If it weren´t "forbidden" to talk about these drugs, prpb. a docotr had a chemist-friend, who´d put it through a GC and it wouldnßt have happened.

Then again, how could one ingest an unknown substnace over many years, whne it´s all over the place, that -especially_ in the "natural" drugs, are the bad ones intermixed?

There is no freely available natural or whatever drug, that will caue much more, than an allergical reaction ür pimples.If it works, there must be something forbidden in it, ot if I feel it works, I´d at least leave it be, after a while and pause, or analyse it, because if it works, it may have sides.

[sylenth]

this is truly a story that the smurf feels. smurf has a brother in law that went through a very similar experience a few years ago. the thing that is strange is that it really is a mystery if it is from some thing in what the dreamer took at the time or if it was just what any dreamer took at the time while the dreamer was going through something or not.

it could be some thing that just triggers something for a dreamer too. cos smurfs dreamer had just 1 line of coke, he was perfect before that. just that 1 line sent him in to his dream & had him seeing things, talking in another language & he was good at it with the accent & every thing. he too had these weird 'super powers' & ideas & was convincing to people with things if you did'nt know him.

it got him in to alot of trouble car accidents debt losing friends, girlfriends etc...
he too was diagnosed with 'bipolar' & had a little medication valium & lithium & & i think it was, but then eventually refused to take it. he had his 'manic' highs & lows.

still to this day he is not completly himself cos he sees it as a weak point & chapter in his life. it's not nice knowing who he was & seeing him battling with things. he is a little self destructive & does'nt respect people the way he should cos of the people that turned their backs on him. he is still battling to get over it.

at least he makes light & jokes of it by saying he has a 'get out of jail free card'
claim insanity/bipolarness. lol. he is a funny guy & gets up to alot of hooligan activities.

so the question is perhaps it takes a certain what ever for who ever to go in to a dream world, obviously this 'natural drug' the dreamer took has a higher stastic rate & is unethical the way it was sold.

becos the smurfs were having the same coke given to their dreamer & the dreamer still uses coke till this day to try understand & prove some thing to himself that it was'nt the coke is what leaves questions.

[The Dreamer]

My cat thanks you for sharing your story Lobsang and will always study anything he puts in his body.

[Lobsang]

Yes SWIM never ever ever thought that this could happen to him. It ruined everything . A total life destroyed. Completely smashed and demolished. SWIM was happy in life but now is totally ruined. It all seems like a bad dream to SWIM.

[cra$h]

if swim was caught in a trip for 2 years after the mescaline, that would have been a wake-up call. people just got to be smart, not saying that anyone's stupid, but more of a hightend awareness while indulging in psychoactive substances. But it just goes to show hallucenogens are not a joke.

[Lobsang]

if swim was caught in a trip for 2 years after the mescaline, that would have been a wake-up call.

No not at all they are two differnt thins. HPPD has nothing to do with what happened on DXM. HPPD is just things like visual disturbances like trails and after images. It is totally a visual processing problem. It is not being caught in a trip. It is very very different. It has no connection to anything else but the visual system. SWIM's problems came from not knowing he was taking DXM. You may search this forum to learn more about how DXM in high doses acts on the brain and body. It will do that to anyone given enough over time. SWIM was tricked plane and simple. He took LSD and may other things for years with no problem except the HPPD at 14 years old. So like I say check into what happens to a person on high levels of DXM over a long time. You can find it by searching.

[cnsns2ccl2]

Even if the product was really 100% natural, doesn't mean it would've been safe. It's a public misconception that natural products are better for you than synthetic products. Where it comes from is completely irrelevant. What matters is the chemical composition and how it interacts with your body. Besides that, no product or drug sold is in it's natural form. It's extracted, i.e. chemically processed. One should be careful of consuming something with the false sense of security that it is safe just because it is natural, or organic.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by cnsns2ccl2

Even if the product was really 100% natural, doesn't mean it would've been safe. It's a public misconception that natural products are better for you than synthetic products. Where it comes from is completely irrelevant. What matters is the chemical composition and how it interacts with your body. Besides that, no product or drug sold is in it's natural form. It's extracted, i.e. chemically processed. One should be careful of consuming something with the false sense of security that it is safe just because it is natural, or organic.

Oh yes I am very aware of that. But you see they snuck DXM into the product and did not list it. That was highly unethical. And they put a lot of DXM in it. So yes SWIM made an error. But putting DXM-hydrobromide in a product is criminal considering how dangerous it is when taken over time.

[cnsns2ccl2]

Incredibly unethical, not to mention illegal too most likely.