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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 17-02-2005, 13:18
Lor1111 Lor1111 is offline
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How to help a junky?



Hi all, 1st time im using this forum. i have a big problem... last night i found out that a friend of mine, well not just a friend, hes some1 ive been inlove with in the past 3 years already... is now doing heroin almost every day...


He started doing it 4 years ago. He had a pack with his friends that they'll take heroin only once in 3 months. Most of his old crew now live abroad. one of them was here for a vacation and told me that he had a really bad experience on heroin while he was on a trip in india. and also he said that he's not goin' to touch this drug anymore. Innocent me, I thought that his friends have reached the same reason, untill last night that i visited my friend and found a used syringe in his toilete room and then while sitting on his bed, i asked what is he doing and he answered "smoking heroin"...


I wanted to cry... i had tears in my eyes but couldnt do anything. He told me that he realised that H is a part of his life, a part of himself... just like weed smoking and mushrooms. those 3 drugs are a part of him so he intends to grow his own poppey and shrooms.. this way he'll have an every day supply...


This dude is highly intelligent, and one of the most special and unique guyz ive ever met... He has a huge potential to be a professor... hes like a crazy scientist or something...


but im telling u all that because im despertly crying for help... I just dunno what to do... I care about him wayyy too much and I want to make him happy... to make him realise that there are so many cool things out there and that being a heroin junky is not usefull and can only damage him.


bah


I thought about giving him more attention, giving him more love and affection... to get him out of his house, to do nice stuff with him... i think he got pretty hard into this habbit out of boredom... and maybe feeling lonely and such...


if u have good advices please share...


thanks alot!


  #2  
Old 17-02-2005, 14:05
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there is supposed to be a contreversial drug wich can help hard drug users, cant remember its name its mentioned in pihkal somewhere
  #3  
Old 17-02-2005, 15:24
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The drug you're thinking about is Ibogaine, but nothing will work unless the person is motivated to quit. If your friend is as intelligent as you say he's probably aware of the risks he's exposing himself to, but has decided to do it anyway. It's hard to stop something like that. In the end it's up to the user to quit, you can not make him.


I love smack also, but I decided I wouldn't go further down that road, at least not now. And it's hard, I think about it every day, despite the fact I've never done it more than ca. 50 times. The reason I decided to quit was because a lot of people were starting to look down on me, people with serious cocaine problems told me I was fucked up, imagine that! I don't want to expose myself to all the social consequences of doing it, people have this demonized image of what a heroin user is like and I don't want to deal with that. Besides, I don't feel I am fully in control of my innocent little weed habit, and it would be poor judgement to think I could handle H without handling the THC first.


The reason why I loved H is very simple, it removed any fear or desire I had, I felt liberated from myself and my own needs, judgements, expectations, all of it. I could just lay still in my bed and breathe freely for once.


You might want to check out the Recovery&addiction part of the forum, things like this is discussed a lot there. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
  #4  
Old 17-02-2005, 20:29
William_Again Gold member William_Again is offline
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methadone? you could use that to ween him off, but your justing getting
him hooked on another drug in that process...try kratom its natural and
legal (non addictive I believe) and eveyone says its like opium. But
basically if he is going to get off it he needs to decide to do it
himself and be motivated, he could also try therapy, that might be good
in resolving some issues that are related to his drug abuse and help
him through the recovery process.

  #5  
Old 17-02-2005, 20:59
Lor1111 Lor1111 is offline
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Thanks all...


The problem is, that he doesnt want to quit... the contrary. He accepts this habbit as a part of him. So i dont think i can give him other medicins, if he enjoys doing smack, he'll continune doing it with or without my support..


Is it possible to influence him in a way that will help him realise that he's playing with his life here? I mean, he obviouslyknows it and he knows the risks and he just doesnt care... he think he's some omanipotent that can overcome all that. He's planning to grow poppey in his yard and make his own H...


can i do something? or maybe i cant? i just dont want to get a phone call some day telling me that he was overdosing and now he's in the hospital, or worse....


This is pure shit, u know?








  #6  
Old 17-02-2005, 22:29
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well if he has it in his head that he is going to use, then nobody is going to stop him. Its hard enough to get over an opiate addiction when you want to quit. The best thing that helped my addiction out is a drug called naltrexone. It blocks all the effects of opiates in the brain by sheilding the opiate receptors in the brain. So for instance if i were to use right now i wouldnt feel any effect or benefit from the drug. Thats half the battle for me because i know i wont get high if i use. The drug comes in pill form and implant. The pills dont tend to work because people wont take them. I use the implant that lasts me 6-10 weeks of being opiate free. The point is to stay on the implant (or pills if you can do it) until you feel comforttable to tackle your addiction on your own. There arent many places in the US who do the implant procedure...only in Virginia Cali and Michigan. and there is really only 3 offices who do it. Its been the best thing for me and my addiction and without it i wouldnt be where i am today
  #7  
Old 18-02-2005, 13:00
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My dear Lor

I write to you these painful and probably useless words because Iīve been playng with that stuff for more than 26 years. I did it in Israel too.In Eilat. God, how many sweet , dreadful memories...

If I am still alive now ,I owe it to my wife. She was my girlfriend then, and she carried me away from Goa (india) or I would still be there, surely under 3 feet of indian soil. How did she do it? She just packed her stuff and told me that she just couldīnt stay and watch me dyng. Considering that I had all the money and was feeding the two of us with my writing, she demonstrated un unusual amount of cojones. I couldīnt fuckinībelive it. She got into a taxi and buggered off. Before her taxi reached the first turn I jumped on the motorbike and run after her. Four days later we was in the Maldives, and I was wishing that I had never been born. But even the worst is bound to pass. And, somehow, Iīm still alive.


If I still find myself in this hell itīs because she is so honest and pure and I am such a ruthless, shameless, expert lier SOB.


You should read some of my conversation withn Justin77 & Apradavra in The thread " if you scratch my back now..." they are great lads. And they know what theyīre talkinīabout.

So, how to help your friend. Lough in his face. Mock him about his shameful , pathetic weakness. Make him understand how boring and meaningless his life is. My wifeis too innocent and sweet to do it, and thatīs her only fault.

And , belive me , he is not so smart. No matter what you or others may think. And he knows it.

Shalom my friend. Kiss for me whe warm wind of the Negev, and the fresh waters of En Gedi. Tell them Iīll be back some day.

" It will not be the fear of madness to keep at mid mast the flags of imagination". from "The manifest of expressionism".

Last edited by ~lostgurl~; 10-01-2009 at 10:51. Reason: removing coding
  #8  
Old 18-02-2005, 13:25
Lor1111 Lor1111 is offline
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So sweet....


Thanks alot elio! I wish u only good and Im happy to hear that the worse is behind you.


en gedi rocks... come back anytime


  #9  
Old 18-02-2005, 13:39
VincentVan VincentVan is offline
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The worst is never behind you . If you canīt see it itīs because it waits for you behind the next corner.

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  #10  
Old 18-02-2005, 18:53
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If he sees it as a part of him and doesn't want to quit nothing you can do or say will make him quit. Something very significant has to happen in his life that will make him ake a good look at himself. You said he is very intelligent, that could be a problem. Sometimes the smarter people are able to convince themselves easier that their use is not a problem and they don't need to quit. Good luck with him. I hope for the best.

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  #11  
Old 18-02-2005, 19:26
William_Again Gold member William_Again is offline
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this option may be a bit extreme and I personally wouldn't recomennd it
and I doubt anyone else at this board would either, but if push comes
to shove and you are damn near scared to death his going to die on this
stuff very soon you can somehow have the police intervien. Go to his
and if you see his stuff call the cops. Again this is a last resort,
because not to many people would get over something like that and if
they did, it would take a life time to forgive the person.
  #12  
Old 18-02-2005, 21:32
VincentVan VincentVan is offline
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William

are you freaking crazy? Call the cops? Have you ever heard of anybody who has ever been helped by the pigs? If my poor wife would have done , or just threatened to do something like that I would have run a continent away from her. Never to return.

Never ever trust anybody wearing an uniform. I know in Israel everybody wears an uniform; then wait until they take it off before trusting anybody.

Besides , in Israel my pusher of choice was a french barman who got his addiction and his connections in an israeli Jailcell.

Donīt ruin his life, your story and your reputation by bringing the cops between you and him.

Use sarcasm instead, lough at him , make him see how pathetic he his

and for his birthday buy him a mirror. But I think I told you this already.

If really he is intelligent, or even just average, he will come to despise either his addiction or himself. Or maybe both. Is that a good thing? I donīt know. But surely is a first step.

Now that I think about it I should probably shut up. Iīm telling you what to do when I canīt even get rid of my own obscene vice.

Itīs my second day off the stuff and I already start to doubt of my possibilities. Maybe if the people around me would know how shallow I am, and would mock me and lough at my pityful state it would be easier to get rid of my demons. Maybe.

Youīre in for a tough fight baby.

So long. VincentVan.


"...Thou Knowest all; I seek invain - What lands to till or sow with seeds - The land is black with brier and weed , - Nor cares for falling tears or rain... " Oscar Wilde "The true knowledge."

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  #13  
Old 18-02-2005, 21:48
Woodman Woodman is offline
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Don't try to help a junkie!

They have to want to quit, first!

Remove yourself from him and when he calls for a
favor (and he will), be ready with an excuse, or just
tell him you don't want to be assiciated with him an
his bad scene anymore.

He's only going to get worse, and there's nothing you
can do about it.
  #14  
Old 18-02-2005, 23:18
William_Again Gold member William_Again is offline
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I think that is kind of a crappy view Woodman, I am not saying it wont
help or that it is a not good one, its just shitty for both parties
involved. I say stick to him as much as possible, and show him that you
care (not overbearingly) and try bringing up in conversation little
things that are getting ruined or disrupted by his use (like your
relationship) and see if he can see his abuse from a different angle.
Basically I think don't laugh at him, dont leave him, and don't throw
it in his face (no matter how mad you get) but rather give him as much
support as you can and when he does NEED help to quit etc...he will be
more comfortable coming to you for it rather than being alone or
spiraling father into addiction
  #15  
Old 19-02-2005, 07:42
Apradavra Apradavra is offline
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I have found that many people who do become junkies tend to be highly intelligent people. And even though they may be addicted to a very powerful, often demonic substence, they are still human. And people are subject to human fallibility, it proves us mortal i guess....Dont just give up on your friend... Woodman, I have read many of your previous posts, and they areintelligent, i do believe an addict must want to quit for themselves, but dont give up on them, people who become junkies often needed help before the addiction set in, one way or another...dont give up on your friends, junkies are still humans, even though some forget to act that way....peace guys
  #16  
Old 19-02-2005, 11:09
VincentVan VincentVan is offline
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Dear Apradavra

as usual your comments are insightful and right on target. BUT:

define intelligence. Is that just the ability to fool everybody around you and to get where you want to be no matter what? In this case you are right. We are very intelligent. But I came to belive there must be more to it.

Also: whatīs the point of intelligence if what you use it for is to wreak havock on your soul and on the livesof whoever may care about you,( Even if your "intelligence" does not let them realize it).

Fuck , if this is intelligence , I wish it would go take a hike, and leave me to my blessed dumbness.

I canīt remember where I read this : "The road of excess brings to the palace of madness". Madness, not intelligence.

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  #17  
Old 19-02-2005, 13:13
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Can't see how removing yourself from him would help. It won't spare you pain (at this point) as you are very much in love. I would at least bring Iboga under his attention with all it's qualities. Not only the anti-addictive quality, but the psychedelic & spiritual qualities as well. Use the search engine to find out more about it.


I think intelligence is defined by the way you use knowledge; by how you treat people, arrange your life and handle the waves that turn it up side down.
  #18  
Old 19-02-2005, 15:20
VincentVan VincentVan is offline
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Youīre a smart guy Alfa . You know that? Yeah. you probably do.

Still, are you sure Iboga is the right stuff for all and everybody? The reason I have never tried it (and I have tried nearly everything , to get rid of my hateful vice), is just those psychedelic qualities you talk about. My last experiences with acid & the likes, have been less than happy ones. As a matter of fact I haveīnt smoked a joint in ages, or at least, I took care not to get too stoned. After using those stuff for years , I slowly came to fear them. Dread their effect even.

My god,how fucked up I am.

About intelligence: Who should judge if the way you use your knowledge is or isīnt good? Andgood to whom?

Yourself? If I would know whatīs good for myself I probably wouldīnt need to be here.

The people arund you? Those you have learned to manipulate, cheat and lie to ,without even the need to think about it?

As for handling the waves, Iīve been piloting in squally waters for longer than I want to remember. The compass was lost long ago ; as for charts: Iīve never had them. No stars to guide you. No gentle breeze to feel your canvas. If ever I īll reach a friendly harbor, I belive , it will be by chance.

So long. Your VincentVan

"... And those rough old dogs of the ocean were tender of heart and true. - And comrade clung to comrade stanch as capitain clung to his crew." - Sir J.Rennell Rodd.

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  #19  
Old 19-02-2005, 19:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elio
Still, are you sure Iboga is the right stuff for all and everybody? The reason I have never tried it (and I have tried nearly everything , to get rid of my hateful vice), is just those psychedelic qualities you talk about. My last experiences with acid & the likes, have been less than happy ones.
Why should the effect be happy? I consider Iboga as a non-recreational drug, a learning drug.

I would certainly not say Iboga is for everybody. Apart from that I do not think any drug is for everyone, Iboga is not to be taken lightly. It is a very strong hallucinogen,which can givea lot of introspective insights. Users tell of re-experiencing their life, with the realisation of how things came to be and why. It is a very long trip, under guidance of people that care for you during it.

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  #20  
Old 20-02-2005, 17:53
VincentVan VincentVan is offline
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WOW . I would really like to give it a try; but Iīm full of doubts (among the other things Iī m full of).

As Isaid, my latest experiences with hallucinogenics , have been so unfortunate that I havenīt touched that stuff in years. Even grass scares me (if itīs good, that is). If as you say , Iboga is "a very strong hallucinogenic", "not to be taken lightly"; how would it effect a poor ,fucked up, SOB like myself?

For what I understood, itīs not something I could take and then go teaching to my poor, innocent ,young, students, that so much trust seem to have in my judgement. Is it?

Or drive a car, or talk to collegues or editors.

What could I possibly say to my usual victim of choice: my beloved wife. Would she notices anything? Would she need to know?

But specially: is it a viable alternative to this stupid, blessed, methadone ;with wich Irepeatedly tried to get rid of my disgusting vice?

Self prescribed ,self obtained, methadone , freed me of my demons several times, but never for a long time. It has saved my lifemore than once but it has never changed it. Would Iboga be different?

"A very long trip" ? How long does it need to be?

Your last comment I find expecially depressing:

Where the hell can I find "caring people under whose guidance take the trip"?On the fuckinī yellow pages?

I start to think I īll never be able to fit this magic substance into my miserable, screwed up life.

But thanks anyway.

Yours VincentVan

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  #21  
Old 25-02-2005, 00:54
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Heroin probably is part of his life...a best friend ..he's had it longer than he's had you. I don't honestly believe you can do anything for him, you need to look after yourself. If a partner comes between me and my drug of choice at a particular time...God help them! Do what you need to for you...if you have the strength, stay and support him. My boyf has done that with me, and i wouldn't be here if he hadn't, but it's not his or your responsibility at the end of the day!
  #22  
Old 25-02-2005, 01:35
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How comes it`s only women who can come out with something intelligent even when it seems nothing intelligent will ever be said?

" Iīll help you through this. Whatever it is..."

( Kurt Vonnegut)

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  #23  
Old 26-02-2005, 23:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VincentVan
As Isaid, my latest
experiences with hallucinogenics , have been so unfortunate that I
havenīt touched that stuff in years. Even grass scares me (if itīs
good, that is). If as you say , Iboga is "a
very strong hallucinogenic", "not to be taken lightly"; how would it
effect a poor ,fucked up, SOB like myself?
Iboga

'The Cleaner has arrived'

Do you expect to have a glowing experience?

Well you will be glowing but after the trip for months!....The trip in itself will be a fairly difficult and long (14-20 hrs).

Think of your brain as a filing cabinet with all your memories from
this life.Iboga comes and shows you a replay slide show of your life
and you are 'made to' understand why you are where you are...

Then Iboga takes a sponge and wipes the slate clean!!!

You will feel alive like you have been reborn and your past Karma has been assimilated.If it sounds too good to be true,try it!

Book yourself into a place far away from the city,a hotel is
perfect.Ask a close loved one to accompany you for a day,this i for
simple stuff like walking to the loo and tucking you in etc.( While
tripping its quite difficult to walk around so you are in bed most of
the time of the trip )

There is ample research done on the efficacy and safety of Iboga so chill there is nothing to worry about.

'If your scared of meeting your demons, feel fear, but dont let the fear

Paralyse you to Impotecy'

Caveat:You have nothing to fear if you are in good systemic health esp. in relation to your heart and liver.

Last edited by ~lostgurl~; 10-01-2009 at 11:00. Reason: removing coding
  #24  
Old 27-02-2005, 01:34
VincentVan VincentVan is offline
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Dear Metamountain

thank you for the explanations you gave me and for wich I have waited impatiently for a while. In the meantime I have done some research by myself about this subject but I haveīnt been able to find anybody who actually tried the stuff himself. The information I have found ,unfortunatly , is contraddictory to say the least. I have found a self described "expert" who claims that the trip, for a first time user,can last from a minimum of 48 hours to a maximum of a full week, with returning sudden flashes for a few weeks afterward . However when I asked him if he has ever tried it, he told me that no, he didīnt, because he never needed to.

Even if I obviously I have little faith in experts about things they īve never experienced, what he said scared me off the iboga idea for some time, but is it true?

If it isīnt , how long will the effects last? What about the sudden returning flashes for weeks afterwards? Is it just a myth born of disinformation or there is more to it?

My health is (incredibly) still in a very decent state . No problem with either liver or heart, but I am addicted to opioids. I am trying to get rid of the horrible habit by using methadone in decreasing doses, but I am still drawn to heroin at least once or twice a week (sometimes more often) What will ever happen if I were to take iboga on top of the methadone? Is it necessary, or my screaming neuroreceptors will be taken care of by the novel alcaloid? And last but not least: when the effect of Iboga will finally vanish, will I still feel the symptoms of withdrawal?

If to find reliable information about ibo is not easy, to find it about the use of it as an alternative to opioids or as a detox possibility is much harder still.

I hope you will find the time to answer some of my questions as I am more and more inclined to give it a try. The main problem is to find somebody who will spend with me the time of the experiment. Does he/she /them need to be people who have tried it themselves or more or less anybody would do?

Thank you again for the advice.

Faithfully waiting for more answers, your VV

Last edited by ~lostgurl~; 10-01-2009 at 11:02. Reason: removing coding
  #25  
Old 27-02-2005, 03:24
indjuwandjuwa indjuwandjuwa is offline
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Be sure to be clean forat least 24 hours before the trip. Eat well during the 24 hours.Set a date and time. Have someone help you to arrange a place to stay. Be sure that you have a medic aware of what you are about to.


I have a little experience with Iboga. Have not used it as a hallucinogen, but more as a stimmulant and for slight mind alteration.


You can also look into AYAHUASCA for beating drug addiction. I think that Ayahuasca is alsoa good after (Iboga) treatment for your condition.


You might also want to concider using the Iboga for a second time at a less higher dose, so that it can aid you further.


Iboga is absolutely not recrational at high dosis!!! you will see your life pass by!


Neither is Ayahuasca.


If in denmark yu might want to check out if there is a St Daime church ( I'm not much into churches ) but it is a good place to start, to introduce you to Ayahuasca.



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