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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 01-05-2008, 16:06
oggy oggy is offline
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How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Methadone/Opiate & drug withdrawal system. This really does work.

I believe in the search for truth…the following monograph is what I know to be true about the use and withdrawal from methadone. I also understand that in life, the truth is constantly evolving. My 18 years on the road to recovery probably taints my judgment somewhat…but friends—I know recovery from the bottom rung. I’ve written countless e-mail replies to those of you who wish to discontinue methadone. In order to save myself time I’ve decided to write as much as I can on one, or two, pages…the truth as I see it…to assist you in your endeavor. I will be adding and subtracting as more information is made available. Certainly, you may perceive your truth to be different. If you think that going to the methadone clinic every morning to get your dose for the rest of your life…gives you quality of life…then read no further and God bless you. I assure you, the standard medical establishment does not have an answer for withdrawal. In fact, the new way of thinking is that many of you will have to be on methadone for the rest of your lives. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They will try and convince you that sudden withdrawal will cause your untimely demise. Another falsehood, although the truth is you may feel like you’re dying. I consistently work with people stopping cold turkey and have better luck than lowering the dose over time., I’ve NEVER had an in-house methadone withdrawal case leave the program early…all have gone cold turkey from 60-150 mg per day…Many do this without the aid of other mind-altering prescriptive drugs…even though I’m licensed to prescribe these drugs. There are exceptions, for those that I detox out-patient, and for those that are on other medications when they come in for treatment…I’ll cover those medications in the following paragraphs. Personally, I urge all to consider in-house Detox for methadone…especially if going cold turkey. Although in my personal experience I’ve never seen any advantage in lowering the dose over time. Especially, if one is at 45 mg or less per day. Methadone Detox can normally be accomplished in 3-5 weeks.



The most important issue in treatment for withdrawal is not so much treating the disease state but treating the individual. One specific protocol designed to treat a disease is standard medicine’s answer to all disease states. This is mechanistic medicine. It does not take into account our genetic variability…we respond to treatment in different ways…not just through biochemistry, but also on the emotional and spiritual levels. For the last 4 years I’ve been using nutrition—Intravenous and oral—to rebuild and repair the biochemistry pathways in the body and mind. Over four years experience —this includes heroin, and all other street drugs, alcohol, and prescription medications--has taught me that natural detox works 100 times better than detox formulated and predicated by the use of other mind altering chemicals. It is also important to recognize that there are many of you that were prescribed methadone for chronic pain. Yet one must recognize that the end result is the same—and therefore the remedies for withdrawal are the same.



One more important point is that emotional and spiritual supports are necessary in this journey back to health. It would be rare that a person is not stretched to the absolute limit—body, mind, and spirit--in the process of withdrawing from methadone. Those who chose to do this alone, rarely succeed. The support of family, friends, or even the 12-step programs are important adjuncts to this journey.



One final point needs to made about the use of methadone. There are those that were put on methadone for pain management. This occurs because opiates in general—while good acute therapy—are not good choices for chronic long-term pain. The body adjusts to opiate therapy by down regulating opiate receptors and the patient will eventually build a tolerance to the standard opiates like vicodin, percocet, or oxycontin just to name a few. Methadone is the last ditch effort to control pain…unfortunately, the use of methadone usually creates more long-term health problems. The other unfortunate aspect of taking someone off methadone—those that have been using it to treat chronic pain—is what will be used to control pain in the future. There has been some movement in treating pain with anti-depressants with poor results. Furthermore, long term opiate use eventually create what is termed the opiate pain syndrome…which simply is the fact that the receptors are so down regulated that the opiate have nothing to act on…and that’s why opiate therapy doesn’t work over the long term…For many of those with chronic pain, choices have to be made…and the withdrawal from methadone will be especially trying…but it can be done following the protocols listed below…as your body heals and the receptors are synthesized in the body your own enkephlins and endorphins (natural body opiates) will start to be interactive in pain management…this may not be enough…yet many cases of chronic pain will subside if serotonin levels in the brain can be increased—the reason for doing amino acid therapy is to increase these levels. Anti-depressants don’t increase the production of anything over the long term…in fact it is well known that in the long term they decrease levels of neurotransmitters such as serotonin. Amino acids therapies work well on most cases of fibromyalgia even though many of these patients will fall victim to the use of methadone which just creates more problems. The good news is that if a fibromyalgia patient will start the following protocols to get off methadone…these are the same basic protocols for treating Fibromyalgia…



1) Most Methadone clinics are for profit, private enterprises, do you really think they want you off the methadone. The cost of a dose of methadone is about $1.00…what are they charging you?

2) Since all associated therapists and counselors that work the methadone clinics are trained and get their information from the standard medical establishment…do you really think they know the truth…no one is saying that they are not caring individuals--but they don’t know the truth anymore than the people who prescribe the medication to you. If fact most of them think we’re idiots because we doubt and ask questions. The fact is that we do not know the long range effects of methadone on the human body and mind…many are now thinking that the longer you are on the methadone the more profound, and possibly irreversible these changes may be…In fact we don’t know the exact mechanism of action of many psychotropic drugs—just review the Physicians Desk Reference on Prozac…along with the countless other caustic chemicals we insist on putting in the human body.


3) Methadone is one of the most physically dependent medications invented in the 20th century. The reason for this is a) its long half-life (24-36 hours)…b) it is a synthetic morphine, c) the diabolic symptomology associated with withdrawal and the length of the withdrawal symptoms. Methadone, like all opioids creates profound changes to gastrointestinal function… In layman’s terms this means that regardless of the food you eat--absorption of the vital nutrients is impaired. If nutrients cannot be absorbed in sufficient quantities and associated quality…all biochemical pathways in the body are affected negatively. Chronic fatigue, sleeplessness, aches and pains, depression, anxiety, are all signs and symptoms of these deficiencies. Methadone also has profound effects on brain neurotransmitter production and function. It is also known that it creates havoc in what is called the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis…which accounts for the chronic fatigue. And like all opiates, methadone down-regulates opiate receptors in the human body thus the long lasting aches and pains associated with withdrawal. Methadone withdrawal is particularly insidious because, left untreated; these symptoms can last literally for months. Also the longer you are on methadone the more profound these changes in body and mind function.


4) Regardless of the level you decrease the dose before quitting…you will suffer some level of withdrawal…Frankly, I’ve never been able to discern much difference in the withdrawal intensity between 1 mg or 80 mg…it’s always difficult. The withdrawal is unique to each individual…I’ve had some come off 65 mg or more, and while uncomfortable, hardly seem to break a sweat. Others coming off low doses and be in pure agony. One must treat the individual, not the disease.



Nutritional treatment is essential in the recovery and withdrawal phase of any type of drug or alcohol dependency. To clarify nutritional treatment, consider the following statement:
The body on methadone, or any other mind altering drug or alcohol, is like the house that has been damaged in a storm. If you were repairing the house what building materials would you need? You would need lumber, sheet rock, shingles, and etc for the major supplies…these are the equivalent of the bodies need for protein, carbohydrates, and fats. How would you hold everything together?…nuts and bolts, nails, and screws—these are the equivalent of the bodies need for vitamins and minerals. To make the repairs we need the proper tools to cut the lumber and fit it into place…one would need the saws, the equivalent of the bodies production of enzymes…these are made from the proteins we eat…one can draw analogy after analogy to explain the necessity for nutritional treatment to facilitate one back to health…only one thing needs to be clearly understood…you put back into the body the things it needs to come back to health.


Any nutritional therapy should be adhered to for at least 90 to 180 days regardless of how you feel. Just like it takes time to alter profoundly the body’s biochemistry with drugs…it takes time to repair with proper nutrition. Oral nutrition is best but often is difficult for those in their first week of detox and recovery. Proteins, complex carbs, and essential fatty acids are necessary building blocks for repair and return of proper function of organ systems and brain neurochemistry. Vitamins and minerals are “co-factors and co-enzymes” which work on the building blocks to do repair and rebuilding. Additionally, it is always counter-productive to move from the complex to the simple…my philosophy is to start simple and move to the level of complexity that works for you…remember all patients are unique in the way they process nutrients and in their ability to maximize therapy.


The following I suggest for those who wish to detox out-patient:



1) Pharmaceuticals: Clonidine 0.1, or 0.2 mg, twice to three times per day. Clonidine is an anti-hypertensive medication that is commonly utilized in opiate withdrawal syndromes. You must come off this medicine slowly—rebound hypertension may occur…especially if you already have high blood pressure…this medication is non-addicting; Vistaril 50-100mg…three times daily…this is a sedating antihistamine which helps with anxiety and sleep…down side is that after 10 days or so it loses its therapeutic efficacy; phenergan 25 mg tab…one every 6 hours for nausea and cramps. I may use these medications on my out/in-patient clients depending on the severity of symptoms. Imodium A/D works well for diarrhea.


2) Intra-Venous Nutritional therapy: In patient or out-patient…typically every day for the first 5-6 days, than every other day until the symptomology has subsided. These nutrient bags can contain proteins, vitamins, electrolytes, and other elements necessary for the body-mind to heal. The advantage of IV therapy is that all essential cofactors bypass compromised gut function. Only when the healing occurs will the symptoms of withdrawal disappear totally. Diarrhea is uncommon in those that receive IV nutrient therapy…but for those not so fortunate, Imodium A-D seems to work well in most.


3) Oral nutrition: Increase the right proteins!!!! Proteins are the building blocks for neurotransmitters and neurotransmitter receptors…as well as the building blocks for your natural opiate receptors


· For 3 weeks you must remove all red meats from your diet. Red meat has chemical components that increase inflammation and pain. Fish, chicken, eggs are good sources of protein. If you are having a hard time taking in solid foods go to a health food store and buy protein powders that can be made into smoothies or drinks. You absolutely must have increased protein intake…proteins are the building blocks for all enzymes, neurotransmitters, and enzyme receptors in the body. No chemical works in the body without receptors. Just like opioids have to have opioid receptors—which are down regulated during methadone use—this is the reason people have long-lasting pain and aggravation coming off methadone…this isn’t much of a problem with heroin use because of it’s short half-life…proteins are essential for the repair work in recovery…I now use a formulation made by Neuroresearch…their Neuroreplete/D-5 protein formulas works well for those coming off of methadone, methamphetamines and benzodiazepines or any drug for that matter… and try to find a doctor close to you that will help you get his product…in fact I treat all my methadone withdrawal patients with this formula


· L-Methionine—a sulfur bearing amino acid…necessary for the production of S-Adenosyl-methionine (SAM-e)…SAM-e is a necessary cofactor in the production of the master neurotransmitters—serotonin, dopamine, adrenalin, and nor-adrenalin…this must be added to any amino acid therapy directed at rebuilding neurotransmitter production and function…500 mg—two twice per day


· Increase your intake of raw fruits and vegetables…you get little or nothing from canned foods…fresh fruits and veges are loaded with fiber which help bind and remove toxins from your body…they also normalize gut function

· Stay off candy, and other sugar heavy foods

· Drink lots of good water, green teas are good for the antioxidants and anti-inflammatory properties…no cokes or soda waters for three weeks

· When capable you must start exercising…swimming is best because it is low impact exercise…yoga…tai chi…walking daily…detoxing or otherwise…exercise is a normal component of good health

Supplements: Some need less and some more…remember the efficacy of all nutrition and supplement use is ultimately guided by your genetics…and we are all different to some degree…This is the value of seeing a good Naturopathic physician in the state you are in…The fact is that very few Medical Doctors know anything about nutrition…70%-75% of the standard medical schools in this country have absolutely no nutritional classes what-so-ever…in the other 25 %--nutrition is often a 14-20 hour block of education and this is commonly an elective…Naturopathic physicians that are educated in a medical school environment are taught nutrition extensively with the associated biochemistry.


· I use the following with all types of drug and alcohol recovery….
·
  • Multivitamin
with a strong mineral component: in gel caps only…an excellent quality multivitamin is absolutely necessary…remember that vitamins and minerals are cofactors/coenzymes for repair, healing, and normal function of the body…most times I have patients double up on multivitamins for the first 3-4 weeks


·
  • Mineral complex
see above

·
  • Fish oils, or flax seed oil
necessary for repair and proper function of cellular membranes…anti-inflammatory…these need to be mixed omega 3, omega 6, omega 9 oils—4000 to 6000 mg per day in split doses…although some can be purchased as liguids and mixed with your smoothies.


· If you don’t do the drinks…get proteins as
  • free amino acids
…double up


·
  • L-Glutamine 500mg caps
…at least 2000-3000 mg per day…split the dose so that your doing it at least twice per day…helps heal the gut and the building block for GABA…the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter…helps slow things down…Do not take GABA as a supplement…GABA is make in the brain…when out side the brain the molecule is to large to cross the blood brain barrier…the building block for GABA is L-Glutamine or Glutamic acid…these building blocks readily cross the blood brain barrier.


·
  • Valarian Root 450 mg
: Botanical that reduces anxiety and helps one to sleep…Kava, Jamaican Dog Wood, Lemon Balm, Avena are all nervine botanicals which can be used together or by self…I find the doses for each individual varies but typically 1000 to 1500 mg every 4 hours.


·
  • Melatonin
…dosages vary…this is a hormone released from the pinal gland in the human body at night time for sleep…this is essential for those coming off opioids…in my experience as little as 1 mg to 30 mg has been effective…do what you have to do…I’ve had addicts coming off $100.00 a day habits sleep 4 hours the first night…start low and add 3-5 mg every half-hour till sleep…research on healthy volunteers using up to 100 mg of melatonin in a single dose shows little side effects…Melatonin is also known as a very strong antioxidant with 1000 times the potency as Vit E…Take only at night when you would be going to bed at the regular time…the room must be dark…that’s the way this hormone is released in the natural state…


·
  • Full Spectrum antioxidants:
relieves inflammation and helps normalize inflammatory pathways and reduces damaging molecules (free radicals) present in the system while detoxing


·
  • Vitamin C:
2000-3000 mg per day divided doses…


·
  • Reduced L-Glutathione 300mg per day:
Helps liver detox metabolites of methadone…Detoxing agents can be found in many products…most in combinations…


·
  • Adrenal Support:
Research has shown that methadone, and drug use in general, has profound effects on the adrenal glands. In fact, research shows that there is a profound negative effect by methadone on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. This is why those that withdraw from methadone have protracted fatigue and problems with anxiety and insomnia. I often use freeze dried adrenal extracts in treatment with fairly good results. You’ll find these products listed under names such as Adrenal Plus, or Adrenplus…the starting dose is around 1000 mg per day in split doses.


·
  • Milk Thistle with alpha-Lipoic Acid
is one combination that I use extensively---for liver repair and detoxification…1200 to 1500 mg of milk thistle and 400 mg of lipoic acid per day in split doses

This is the basics. There is absolutely no way to eliminate all the problems associated with withdrawal from methadone...one must have a supportive environment and often with daily visits from a compassionate health care provider…This will not kill you…it will be a miserable event…what kills most is the movement back to street drugs to ward off the side effects of withdrawal. If fact, cold turkey deaths coming off opioids and methadone are rare and usually associated with other health problems, or overdosing on prescription medications…withdrawal from methadone is much less of a risk than total withdrawal from alcohol. I wish you all luck on this endeavor…My compassion and empathy goes out to you…Ultimately, I know that you can do this…after all…it has to be done.

Post Quality Evaluations:
nice post. please advocate ibogaine use
giving you lots of rep for this great wealth of information
Awesome Awesome post on getting off methadone/opiates
excellent information needed on DF-thank-you.Please add source next time
Awesome post, still worthy of props due to its valid and pertinent nature.
Great info
for taking the time to provide such thorough and helpful information.
Awesome non-pharmaceutical info for opiate withdrawal supplementation!
He certainly knows what he's talking about, extremely informative. I'm on the 'program' 60 mg right now.
Very very informative & helpful, especially for those going through their 1st detox
Great info...correct nutrition so important
this was a good post; well-written and comprehensive
Good, informative post. Echo on promoting Ibogaine
Very useful post! I'll be saving this for the future!
Good post, but too many "..."s can be frustrating sometimes.
I am just starting hard core wd this post was very comforting
Good post, well worth reading
very informative
such good info - thanks!
No proof to back up this quick fix withdrawal.

Last edited by oggy; 25-02-2009 at 16:26.
  #2  
Old 02-05-2008, 00:50
MorganUK9 MorganUK9 is offline
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Re: Methadone/Opiate withdrawal

I am so pleased to have come across this info.
I am on 45ml and will be trying to come down once stable again.
I so wish I had come off the heroin another way as I withdraw so much worse from the methadone.
Still its another lesson to be learnt by.

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pls don't self incriminate
  #3  
Old 03-05-2008, 14:11
oggy oggy is offline
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Re: Methadone/Opiate withdrawal

Swim went from 80mg methadone to 0 in one day. He is now on day 8 and 14:30 hours and he is getting better by the minute. First 5 days were hell but he never read this till day 6 and bought everything Swim needs and is feeling 50% better now

I hope for everyone that wants the monkey off their back to read this as its only taken 2 n a 1/2 days supplementing/dieting like this (Plus 5 days of hell before) and Swim can feel the benefits.

Swim was never happy picking up methadone every single day at the chemist and at no mater what dose, the turkey IS still just around that corner.

You need to find the strength within yourself.


Take control of your mind.

When I observe the inner world of my thoughts and feelings, I can develop new ways of responding to situations and events which help to keep new me in a positive frame of mind. I may see for example that whereas becoming upset and fearful about ill-health only makes it worse, a period of illness could offer me a space to get off life's roller coaster for a while, to rest, and look at how I have been living. Then, if I'm honest, I may see ways of improving my attitudes and actions. That realisation in itself will bring fresh hope, and happiness. As long as I keep looking inside, I really do have a choice. Why choose worry, which will harm me? Why not opt for a positive approach, which will uplift me?

oggy added 1399 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganUK9 View Post
I am so pleased to have come across this info.
I am on 45ml and will be trying to come down once stable again.
I so wish I had come off the heroin another way as I withdraw so much worse from the methadone.
Still its another lesson to be learnt by.
Did you read this bit?

Detox for methadone…especially if going cold turkey. Although in my personal experience I’ve never seen any advantage in lowering the dose over time. Especially, if one is at 45 mg or less per day. Methadone Detox can normally be accomplished in 3-5 weeks.

How are you getting on? Do you pick up daily, is it supervised? Swims last dose was 80mg and he still lives to this day. Tapering only makes the suffering last longer, FACT!

Prepare yourself mentally n spiritually and buy all the supplements listed. Nutrition is just as important but it may take up to 4-5 days before you feel you can eat solid food, try protein drinks and soups + the multi vits. Do you work? Take at least a week off. Take your last dose on the Friday morning and remember what time you took it. This will give you 10 days to free yourself. I'm on day 8 and 14 hours clean another 2 days Swim could be working, slow but it would build strength.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Last edited by oggy; 03-05-2008 at 14:11. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #4  
Old 02-11-2008, 18:43
Dickon Dickon is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

I feel this really useful thread should be on the front page, so thought I'd briefly relay this message from a dream I had about my imaginary identical twin. In this dream I said "hypothetically...."

I came across this thread in my first days on DF and it "spoke" to me. More because I could see instantly that it was written by a man who knew stuff. It just shined out to me that this what not bullshit or ill-motivated or done for self-aggrandizement. There is a paradox in the sense that the post claims to be an easy way and yet also says there's no free lunch. Well I think there's a truth there. At no point does this doctor say anything other than that you'll be stretched to emotional/physical/spiritual breaking-point, but I think there is in this protocol the germ of a really achievable detox.

I'm not speaking hypothetically here, I am myself in my 15th day off methadone (and all mood altering drugs including alcohol, except for tea and coffee!). I'd cut down from 225 mg/day to 5/mg a day over 36 days (mostly 5mg/day drops) and jumped using the clonidine, diclofenac (not mentioned here, but a glorified ibuprofen that doesn't hurt my stomach so much), and some of the above supplements. I didn't use melatonin, the sedating antihistamines (I briefly used cetirizine (Zirtec)), loperamide (I'd be careful about this as it is an opioid even though it's effects are periferal due to its not crossing the blood-brain barrier) , or half of the aminos on there, and no IV stuff. This was strictly a home-detox. I did get some mega-vitamines, Amino-acid pills, adrenal extract (not sure if this is such a good thing. It's possibly counter-indicated early on as it's not sleep-promoting, rather the opposite), alpha-lipoic acid, and milk-thistle, valerian and chamomile tea. I used the clonidine only at night as needed (one night I took a large dose, in total, maybe 1.2 mg, but all other nights my total was less than 0.5mg) usually taking one 0.075 or 0.15 mg pill per 45mins/hour as needed. The bad night I don't remember whether I eat them in twos or simply took them more frequently. The maximum effective dose in humans is stated at 2.4mg in the literature, so 1.2mg is still well within safety limits.

I've written up my experience in the "screaming in the night air..." thread in this part of DF. I'm not sure if reading it will help anyone, but it might send a message that it's possible to get off this loathsome stuff! I think the author of this post deserves the highest praise for bringing this enlightened doctor to out attention.

Thanks

Dickon
  #5  
Old 17-02-2009, 13:26
0utrider 0utrider is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

when physical w/d stopped one could use (if not a real AD) st johns wort (better: rhodiola). SWIM found Vitamin B complex to be of GREAT help and SWIM usually isnt sensitiv to stuff..
apart from that.. exercise etc etc blablabla, possibly low dose ibogaine, magnesium is quite important.. uhm what else? for psychological recovery
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Old 17-02-2009, 14:54
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AW: Re: How to go cold turkey from 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outriderx View Post
when physical w/d stopped one could use (if not a real AD) st johns wort (better: rhodiola).
Dont use that Stuff (St. Johns Wort) if Swiy in a acut Withdrawal
or in the MMT.
Also of course in a Pain-Treatment!

Please use the Internet by yourself do find the Reference (1)!
It will cut the Methadone-Metabolism about <40%

1. i am a Newbie, so i cant post it by myself!
  #7  
Old 25-02-2009, 15:39
youdontknow youdontknow is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Something that bothers me, dont know why, its not a big deal, is when people replace MG with ML when talking about methadone. To the person who said there on 45 ml, really, your on 450 mgs of methadone? I think what you mean to say is that your on 4.5 millileters of liquid which would be 45mgs of methadone.

the usual count is 1ml=10mgs

youdontknow added 3 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...

And another thingi dont understand is why people just stop there methadone cold turkey, you usually know going into it that the point is to taper off to help relieve withdrawl. Thats the whole point

youdontknow added 2 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

Lol another thing...

In the title it says quit 150 mgs and then you say 80...?

Last edited by youdontknow; 25-02-2009 at 15:39. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #8  
Old 25-02-2009, 16:24
oggy oggy is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youdontknow View Post
Something that bothers me, dont know why, its not a big deal, is when people replace MG with ML when talking about methadone. To the person who said there on 45 ml, really, your on 450 mgs of methadone? I think what you mean to say is that your on 4.5 millileters of liquid which would be 45mgs of methadone.
In the UK methadone is mostly prescribed in a strength of 1mg per 1ml. Though if your prescribed higher doses they will use a methadone strength of 10mg per 1ml.
Quote:
Originally Posted by youdontknow View Post
And another thingi dont understand is why people just stop there methadone cold turkey, you usually know going into it that the point is to taper off to help relieve withdrawl. Thats the whole point
Methadone is prescribed to replace heroin or other opiates. In rehab they will take you off methadone within a few days.

Plus it can be a pain slowly detoxing over a year or 2. For SWIM methadone was like a prison sentence, he hated being on it. It sure worked at stopping him from using heroin once he was on the right dose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by youdontknow View Post
In the title it says quit 150 mgs and then you say 80...?
Quote:
I’ve NEVER had an in-house methadone withdrawal case leave the program early…all have gone cold turkey from 60-150 mg per day…Many do this without the aid of other mind-altering prescriptive drugs…even though I’m licensed to prescribe these drugs
It was SWIM that detoxed from 80mg. Sorry for the confusion.
  #9  
Old 26-02-2009, 15:59
youdontknow youdontknow is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Oh alright.

But it seems that if you were only on it for a few days that wouldnt be enough time to get addicted to methadone.

And im sorry to say it but if people go into a methadone CLINIC and then quit cold turkey there pretty much begging for withdrawls!

im a big supporter of methadone because its gotten me off street drugs and its the first time in 3 years ive gone longer than a week at a time without being sick. And im relatively sure that when it comes time for me to taper itll be alot easier than withdrawl from heroin. Im hoping withdrawls will be minimal which im sure they will be since my clinic does do split dosing (rather than just incriments of 5 you can split them, like one or two mg doses)

I just know that if it wasnt for methadone i would still be using street drugs.

Last edited by Smeg; 09-09-2013 at 11:11. Reason: Removal of inappropriate "lol".
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Old 08-05-2009, 22:53
Davidb711 Davidb711 is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Methadone does help one not only quit, but blocks the down from working if one tries to shoot up again. So, a smart addict would know it's a waste to buy dope and try to hit it again. METHADONE is a good cure all and works!!!! Uneducated people are the ones who put METHADONE down and give it a bad name because they are really the drug dealers who lose sales when an addict gets on the Methadone program ... that's only my personal feeling though...

no point in hurting anyones feeling, but then again, how can i hurt someone elses feelings, when the persons is in charge of their own feelings? Well, hhhmmm, no one can make someone feel the way they do because it's their own feeling they are in charge of. i think i will shut up now ... but, all in all i did enjoy reading this post ...

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Last edited by Smeg; 09-09-2013 at 11:14. Reason: Line-spacing for ease of reading.
  #11  
Old 08-05-2009, 23:19
mickey_bee Gold member mickey_bee is offline
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Re: Methadone/Opiate withdrawal

Quote:
Originally Posted by oggy View Post
How are you getting on? Do you pick up daily, is it supervised? Swims last dose was 80mg and he still lives to this day. Tapering only makes the suffering last longer, FACT!

Prepare yourself mentally n spiritually and buy all the supplements listed. Nutrition is just as important but it may take up to 4-5 days before you feel you can eat solid food, try protein drinks and soups + the multi vits. Do you work? Take at least a week off. Take your last dose on the Friday morning and remember what time you took it. This will give you 10 days to free yourself. I'm on day 8 and 14 hours clean another 2 days Swim could be working, slow but it would build strength.

Feel free to ask any questions.
I'm well chuffed that you're doing well mate, I really am impressed, that takes alot of strength, and you've clearly got that.

However, as I'm sure you've realised, it's an individual struggle, what is working for you, may not work for someone else.

Every individual really does need to find what works for them, themselves.

But yeah, fucking well done man, I'm so glad you're doing well!

Swim's currently picking up meth everyday, having to endure twats looking down their nose at him as he glugs it down. However, swim is still very much in the arms of heroin, and is not really ready to give that up yet, so he simply uses methadone to tide him over on the days he can't afford/acquire heroin. It's a pain, but part of the game!
  #12  
Old 10-01-2010, 13:48
curios cat curios cat is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

hey..ive had a 300mg a day(3x100mg ms contin tabs intra v habit) for 12 months...it was becoming a real hungry monster wanting more and more everyday..not really feeling any hit at all....
i tried cold turkey but just didnt make it through(this is my first addictive habit ever)...i asked people about going on a methadone program only to be told it is almost as hard to get off as morphine that i was using which scarred me...

someone suggested i try physeptone..(this is an australian post so im not sure if it is available elsewhere)..this is a 10 mg methadone table..so i took one in the morning and one at night....i was instructed to only take them as needed..eg if the next day i wasnt in pain or suffering from diahorreha(something spelt like that lol) not to have any till i started to get sore legs or an inkling to want morph or have a shot....

so i did one 10mg physeptone in the morning and one at night for 5 days...i also asked if physeptone was addictive being methadone..i was quoted around 2 weeks use before i start to gather a habit depending on my 2 pills a day use...SO...on day 6 i had no pain.. SO ..i didnt take any physeptone..and now im 2 weeks clean with no pain or narcotics in sight.....hope this may help you in someway...

i just cant believe i detoxed so easy with such a heavy iv habit....i know the journey isnt over and i am dilligently reminding myself everyday what waits for me if i slip back...but i am already feeling my endorphines coming back..im stretching a lot and my legs have this wonderful tingle to them and when i laugh it feels like the best laugh ever and i really can feel those endorphines rushing around my body saying hello to there old friends..my body parts...

i can also now achieve orgasm again which was the biggest crime of all that ms contin stole from me..thanks for your input to help us users out that are trying to pursue a better life without an addiction..we are listeneing and learning everyday

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wonderful optimistic post..a joy to read..

Last edited by Smeg; 09-09-2013 at 11:24. Reason: Paragraphing and line-spacing for ease of reading.
  #13  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:35
lease25 lease25 is offline
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Re: AW: Re: How to go cold turkey from 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spucky View Post
Dont use that Stuff (St. Johns Wort) if Swiy in a acut Withdrawal
or in the MMT.
Also of course in a Pain-Treatment!

Please use the Internet by yourself do find the Reference (1)!
It will cut the Methadone-Metabolism about <40%

1. i am a Newbie, so i cant post it by myself!
Swim understands this is an old post but would like to add that she has used st john's wort extensively and it has been a great help to her, both whilst detoxing, whilst using, on MMT and also whilst she has been clean so she is not sure why the above swimmer would advise not to.

St John's Wort does have interactions with some medicines, most notably anti-depressants, so like all herbal supplements, people should discuss the medicines they are presently taking with a chemist or doctor. Swim has never experienced negative effects from this drug and has benefited from it immensely.

St John's Wort is a calmative and an anti-depressant and can be extremely helpful for opiate addiction and recovery. Each individual should assess their own situation and make decisions based on their personal circumstances, health and well being.
  #14  
Old 07-02-2011, 03:34
OxyBrocet OxyBrocet is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Great post and lots of great info, my friend should use this when he's ready to detox Just thought I'd add that when on methadone, keep using it until you feel your life improving and your emotional/spiritual health improving enough to not go back to opiates as soon as you get off..

My friends on suboxone and slowly but surely his cravings, poor financial state, and all else negative related to the initial addiction is beginning to improve. If your continuosly relapsing on all attempts to quit then methadone/suboxone is a VERY good stepping stone to a more stable & functional life.

Another thing, while your on methadone/suboxone to get your life back, it would be smart to start tapering AS SOON AS your stable after induction (but taper slowly - stay comfortable) so that once you feel your ready to face withdrawal/sobriety you will be on a lower dose, which WILL MAKE WITHDRAWL LESS PAINFUL (but it is still withdrawal, and it's never easy).

Last suggestion for those one methadone: if your able to do so, your withdrawal will be much less severe if you use suboxone to detox with. For this, it is advised you are on 30mg or less/day of methadone, and you will have to wait until FULL withdrawal before taking suboxone, usually around 2-5 days depending on your metabolism/dose/etc. (this won't be easy, but if your goal is getting clean its easier then ColdTurkey). Sub's a lot more expensive than meth. in the US (don't know exact price), and may take a while to find a doc. It's about $5-15/day in Canada and most methadone clinics here are starting to prescribe suboxone too.

*Note*: at 30mg methadone you shouldn't need more then 8mg sub, and a lot of docs will start you too high...start at 4mg, wait an hour, and 2mg/hour after that till you feel comfortable. Start tapering as soon as you feel stable on the suboxone (5-14 days), and reduce by something like 25% every 3-7 days. If sub doesn't do it for you under, let's say 16mg max., then I'd recommend not continuing with suboxone therapy, as it'll take longer to taper from higher doses (and your ready to get clean right?). Also you will benefit most from sub being on it a short time, like a month or less. It's great for detox but still has long, uncomfortable withdrawals when on it for months or years, so I've heard/read.

Hope this info can be somewhat useful, though I know most of it's probably in the forum already
  #15  
Old 01-05-2011, 07:34
fatalxsunrider43 fatalxsunrider43 is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Hello ! I am new here, and I am intrigued reading these posts about Methadone and the detox/withdrawl ordeal. If I may, let me tell you my story. In 2004, I was diagnosed with lower degenerative disc desease.
My doctor at the thriving health care provider put me on Vicoden, which eased my pain but after 3 years
I was worried that the acetaminophen in the drug would damage my kidneys and liver. So I went to the providers detox and asked to get off, they did the suboxone. Everything seemed to be going well, so they discontinued the suboxone. Well, god help me the withdrawl from the suboxone was a mental hell full of insanity. I asked the folks at the detox center to help me with something and they said no sorry, your just going to have to white knuckle it. I felt so betrayed. I went back to my doctor in tears unable to breath, he put me on the 3.5 10 mg of methadone along with buspar for anxiety, things seemed to be ok. Well, now 4 years later I am only taking 20 mg a day. I want to get off of this stuff as I cannot get any health coverage being on Methadone, no Health Care Providers will Insure anyone on Methadone unless you go with H.I.P.A.A. which is 170% of the normal cost of a plan. So, here I am, prescribed methadone and addicted by my Health Care Provider, rejected by my Health Care Provider because of what they prescribed me,
and now they want to financially break me with a plan that costs $800.00 plus a month. Here is the kicker, the Methadone has caused my pituitary gland to stop making HL hormone, I am low on energy due to this.
Looks like the bottom line is i have to get off of this stuff, but I am very frightened that withdrawl is going to be too much for me.
HELP, what do I do. I truly feel like the Health Care Provider is to blame for all of this. I enjoyed reading what "oggy" posted, I wish I could find someone like that close to me that could help me to get off this crap.
I need alot of suggestions and hopefully I can come up with a plan.
HELP, HELP ,HELP life should not have come to this, thanks !

fatalxsunrider43

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I feel for your predicament. But maybe you would be better served by starting a new thread asking for help.
  #16  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:32
purplehorizon purplehorizon is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

this is very helpful i have a very close friend trying to gret off heroin and i woulddo anything in the world to help this person.thank you so much for this post.
  #17  
Old 05-07-2011, 19:04
maroon55 maroon55 is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Methadone worked for me, as well as my friend.

I was into oxy and using between 3-10 80mg oxy a day.

After several months of meth increases, and gradual oxy decreases, I got to 120mg of methadone and stopped the oxy.

After a month or so, I felt tired from the meth, so I decreased my dose to 115, and started feeling good and energetic again. This was taking the meth at the same time everyday, and using no other drugs.

After a couple of weeks, I started feeling tired again, decreased the meth again, and once again, felt good and energetic.

This continued over the next several months, until down to about 20mg.
From there, I just decreased in small doses every 2 weeks, no longer decreasing only because I felt the dose was making me tired.

I was exercising and eating really well all through this, as well as working full time.

Eventually got to 2mg....Tried to go cold turkey from 2mg, but I couldn't fall asleep, and that would have interfered with my job.

So I stayed on, and then decreased to 1mg, and then a half mg, and then went off without any side effects from there.

It was the same deal with my friend, although she had been using 90mg of methadone, and quit cold turkey at 6mg, just ignoring a bit of discomfort.



Worked good for both of us and I would recommend this approach before going cold turkey. You have the opportunity to get used to a life not revolving around drugs, since the drugs don't have any effect.
Opposed to going through a traumatising sickness for days or weeks and coming out with a fresh drug tolerance, forced to start from scratch, suddenly keeping away from friends, past habits, and other triggers.


After you are clean for a couple months, in my area anyways, you only have to show up to the pharmacy once a week for the week's supply. You see the Dr. once a month to checkup and refill the prescription and they encourage a healthy gradual reduction when your life is going smooth.

Last edited by maroon55; 24-08-2012 at 17:01.
  #18  
Old 05-07-2011, 19:34
tigresssss tigresssss is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Swim's tapering currently, down to 2.5mg and ready to jump next Monday.

Gone off c/t after very rapid tapers from 40-50mg/day before, and swim thought she was going to die.

I can't say enough about kratom and how much it's helped swim through this rapid taper. The w/d is still there, no doubt, but taking 5-10g of Bali powdered kratom has made this an almost pleasant experience.

Swim plans to taper off the kratom slowly, starting to drop a week or two after swim's last methadone dose.
  #19  
Old 24-12-2011, 15:21
oggy oggy is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Interesting to read again, will use this method and supplement plan again once ready to detox from suboxone.

Oggy relapsed once his addiction to kratom changed to heroin late 2009. Kratom is good for withdrawals but is very addictive itself, although withdrawals aren't as bad from kratom it is still an opiate. Next time Oggy will stay clear of all opiates!
  #20  
Old 09-01-2012, 23:08
MadOne MadOne is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youdontknow View Post
Something that bothers me, dont know why, its not a big deal, is when people replace MG with ML when talking about methadone. To the person who said there on 45 ml, really, your on 450 mgs of methadone? I think what you mean to say is that your on 4.5 millileters of liquid which would be 45mgs of methadone.

the usual count is 1ml=10mgs

youdontknow added 3 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...

And another thingi dont understand is why people just stop there methadone cold turkey, you usually know going into it that the point is to taper off to help relieve withdrawl. Thats the whole point

youdontknow added 2 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

Lol another thing...

In the title it says quit 150 mgs and then you say 80...?
why do sum judge others from occsional type errors as them being think grow up, but i do aggree when it comes to methadone there shud be no typo errors regarding methadone doses it is potentially dangerous information.

people shud state daily mg doseage and form ie in a way all will understand like :~~~~~~ methadone 50mg dailly in 1mg/1ml form 50 ml's from uk or methadone 50mg daily 10mg/1ml concentrate 5 ml's usa. etc etc

It would cause less confusion remember with common opioids like methadone and bupe some readers assume all info on here is gospel when half of it is more than likely wrong information. enough said
  #21  
Old 11-02-2012, 21:54
chestter chestter is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

i posted my story in the intro, but i had a dream about my old dead dog to make a long story shorter, he quit methadone ct from a split dose of 92mg....although the week before quitting he took 120 a day but took 14 days in 7 days then took 3 days the first couple and spread the last 4 days out over 4 days.
now on day 6. had pain sneezing insomnia, etc during the taper before quitting and the first day or 2 then pain gone. had fevers;chells insomnia since. no rls, no more pain, but...he took benadryl with his methadone...150 mg with every dose.

prior to ct quitting, was taking 2 a day for several months. but prior to that was taking 4 days on, 3 days off (ran out) has been taking 150 each dose for 3 yrs. the 3 days off, day 3 always had severe rls, pain, anxiety but continued benadryl ...this time, quit benadryl too.
does anyone know what to expect? its day 6 or 8 who knows and i do sleep a f ew hours a night although not deeply. i have hypothyroidism, was that from methdone? i also had gastric bypass 5 yrs ago.

been on methadone for 5 yrs. preceded by a 2 month symptom free ct jump from 90 after 6 months. is there a chance i may not have as long a go, will it get worse before it gets better?should i take thyroid?
i have no medical insurance so.. no med care. how can i sleep? should i give up? my life was far from stable thats why i quit. the benadryl mede the methadone make me high so i was living formmy doses...in a severe addictive state. in us---i know the dream fell off, but its all good.

Last edited by Smeg; 09-09-2013 at 11:42. Reason: Paragraphing and line-spacing for ease of reading, plus replacing slang word for methadone.
  #22  
Old 12-02-2012, 10:23
&rew &rew is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

SWIMs way to detox from 250mg (500mg) methadone a day and staying functional, walk for work, having social life, visit daughter on weekend and so. Ok, from 500mg of supportive dose that's not so functional and that's pretty hard at least on first 2-3 days on a first iteration but this way still could be used. Now SWIM not that stupid to rise his dose that high. Actually SWIM not rises dose higher then 1g a week but with speed 1g per 4 days it worked too. 250mg is supportive dose, means he could use 500mg without problem if someone give it to him but he also might feels pretty well if he haven't redose one day.

All that written are wrong it won't work for you. Stop reading this post right now. This is a lie.

Yes, it is stairs way. Jumps from methadone to heroin and back. Dumping dose during heroin stage and stabilizing condition during methadone stage.

First jump to heroin is hardest one and most dangerous. First dangerous is quality of heroin, it might take some time to search and f**k dealers brains before SWIM could get heroin cutted on acceptable level. Second problem is heroin again. Any heroin has acetylcodeine. While usual user starts from low doses of heroin and slow rise it, body slow adopts to increasing doses of 6-MAC. Trying to detox one have to start at high doses so it might be a problem, real problem, even death 'cause of strong allergic reaction.

So SWIM usual spends some time searching for acceptable source of heroin. Usual he gets some 0.25g packs of different kind, skips his daily dose and checks heroin at night. Shot... something during rush (there should be a buzz just during rush that's already good)... During rush and after SWIM searches for any allergic reaction like needles pining all over the skin (this pining needles at 2-3g annoying a lot, at least annoying but usual it worse). Check injection spot for red skin, small bubbles covered the skin around pin spot and upper on the vein path. Anything unusual is a sign of search for some more sources.

Ok, SWIM found source, even 0.5g ain't gives any unpleasant reaction. BTW, during tryouts SWIM already rises a bit resistance to a MAC. Time to start, skip second and third day dose, feels sick. On third day SWIM starts slow treatment... first it is 1g and slowly increases dose 'cos of same reaction to MAC, antihistamines are very helpful here, besides antihistamines increases the buzz and getting a bit higher so periods between injection could be increased. First SWIM have to shot each 1-2 hours, then he slows down. Yes, SWIM feels WDs but that's controllable WDs like delay next shot for 30 mins. Pretty soon he stabilizes on 5g a day: 1g -- 7 hours -- 1g -- 7 hours -- 1g -- 7 hours -- 2g -- sleep and new day comes. It takes around 30-40g and a week. During this week SWIM keeps working and living, accept for those few mins/hours before next shot.

After tapering to 5g a day SWIM goes for more relaxing 100-150g of methadone a day splat for two uses (morning/night). A couple weeks on methadone. And last iteration on heroin. SWIM tapers down to 1g a day, spend a month on heroin letting methadone to leave his system. And detoxes from heroin using methadone. At this point 50-100 mg of methadone over all is more then enough to detox without problem. Only on 6th 7th day after last methadone dose SWIM feels uncomfortable. Then PAWS but lyrica fixes it at least during 10 days. 10 days after SWIM goes for drugs test that he has to pass each 6 months along with other medical checks like other guys who works with SWIM on same position. Thanks that this is only common two lines test.

With 500mg it worked too only heroin dose required correction, but it was hard, really hard mostly cos of this MAC, even antihistamines not helped. Also it required one more iteration. Sometimes finding normal heroin takes months you won't believe how much shit people shot on streets like one shot and vein blocked... how sweet, nice heroin. Any heroin has MAC but some more and some less. SWIM found azerbajanian one are pretty clean of MAC but, if he got it right, that was a guy who grown it on his plant and gone to a city to sell it during winter.

Last edited by Smeg; 09-09-2013 at 11:52. Reason: Replacing slang term for methadone.
  #23  
Old 12-02-2012, 17:40
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

^^^I'm sorry love, but after reading all of that I wonder how anyone could have the time to quit with all of the work that would go into your idea of detox? Even though you might be able to source a potent form of heroin, you never know just how potent it is, so in one dose you may get a pure shot, the next day the heroin you're using might be quite weak by comparison. You see the reason methadone is so great as a form of opiate replacement, is because you always know just how much you've taken. 100mgs is 100mgs every single time.

And I find it hard to see how anyone could continue to function and work when they not only have to run their ass off making sure they get some good heroin (how you determine how good it is in comparison to methadone I don't know) then they have to work out how much to take, and redose every couple of hours. I think guessing just how much heroin to take can allow for you to take more than you really need, simply because you wouldn't take less than you need and be sick, so you would naturally over estimate your need. How can you work when you've used too much?

Another reason methadone is such a good way to get off of heroin is because it takes you out of the junky lifestyle, takes you away from the dealers, the other addicts, from that shady kinda existence. You see it's all about breaking habits, unhealthy habits, and while you're still scoring on the street you're maintaining those old using habits aren't you? The time it takes to reduce your methadone dose is also perfect in as much as it gives you time to begin dealing with any issues you might have that contributed to your addiction, or any that you accumulated whilst you were addicted.

The bottom line is methadone enables you to get out of the lifestyle that you have to inhabit to maintain an addiction, it also allows you to set up a healthy lifestyle routine, and time to gradually cut all of your old ties to that way of living and set up more healthy routines that will help you to maintain your recovery. You don't get addicted in a week/month, it's something that evolves, that you almost grow into. So it figures that you can't just drop it all in weeks/months, it's something that you have to grow out of. Methadone is not a quick fix, and if you try to use it as one the chances are that you'll relapse, simply cuz you haven't changed the addicted mindset for one that can support you when you're not using.

You know it is possible to quit methadone without too much pain, and the way it's done is to use subutex/suboxone at the very end of the detox.

Sparkles
  #24  
Old 13-02-2012, 13:20
&rew &rew is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by missparkles View Post
^^^I'm sorry love, but after reading all of that I wonder how anyone could have the time to quit with all of the work that would go into your idea of detox? Even though you might be able to source a potent form of heroin, you never know just how potent it is, so in one dose you may get a pure shot, the next day the heroin you're using might be quite weak by comparison. You see the reason methadone is so great as a form of opiate replacement, is because you always know just how much you've taken. 100mgs is 100mgs every single time.
That's not an idea, that's a working plan realized few times. To be honest SWIM never met any unsolvable problem on getting normal heroin. He always come to detox prepared. Preparation takes some time but he is not starting detox before he gets ready. What do you mean by "you never know just how potent it is"? Usual all shots from the same bag has predictable potency. As soon SWIM found good quality he just buy 6-8 bags with 5g in each. And if any tragic incident happen and couple of bags doesn't looks like from same big package he just exchanges it. This is the deal: "I need 7 bags of same heroin you sold me yesterday" and dealer sells it. To be honest, I don't know how to explain it simpler. Quality may vary but in very short interval when buying all at once.


Quote:
Originally Posted by missparkles View Post
And I find it hard to see how anyone could continue to function and work when they not only have to run their ass off making sure they get some good heroin (how you determine how good it is in comparison to methadone I don't know) then they have to work out how much to take, and redose every couple of hours. I think guessing just how much heroin to take can allow for you to take more than you really need, simply because you wouldn't take less than you need and be sick, so you would naturally over estimate your need. How can you work when you've used too much?
I think, I've answered those questions above nobody running or searching. SWIM don't need to know exact potency ratio of methadone and heroin he uses. As soon as he starts taking heroin he no longer reminds about methadone at least during current iteration, so ratio only matters on first heroin use. Then he forgets about methadone and uses heroin only to fix sickness and only potency of heroin matter from that point.



Quote:
Originally Posted by missparkles View Post
Another reason methadone is such a good way to get off of heroin is because it takes you out of the junky lifestyle, takes you away from the dealers, the other addicts, from that shady kinda existence. You see it's all about breaking habits, unhealthy habits, and while you're still scoring on the street you're maintaining those old using habits aren't you? The time it takes to reduce your methadone dose is also perfect in as much as it gives you time to begin dealing with any issues you might have that contributed to your addiction, or any that you accumulated whilst you were addicted.

The bottom line is methadone enables you to get out of the lifestyle that you have to inhabit to maintain an addiction, it also allows you to set up a healthy lifestyle routine, and time to gradually cut all of your old ties to that way of living and set up more healthy routines that will help you to maintain your recovery. You don't get addicted in a week/month, it's something that evolves, that you almost grow into. So it figures that you can't just drop it all in weeks/months, it's something that you have to grow out of. Methadone is not a quick fix, and if you try to use it as one the chances are that you'll relapse, simply cuz you haven't changed the addicted mindset for one that can support you when you're not using.
I think I'm almost imaging person to who you talking above. But what about imaging another person. Don't know, for example, person about who SWIM heard once. That guy addicted for some years. He had a period when he was without money scamming and hustling for dope, pretty long period. He had long period when he reached really good source.

With this source he was second man who touches heroin just arrived into his country. This source was some kind of spy game but this game had a very good output. He kept an half of things that going through his hands as a reward for helping and people who asked him for help was happy. They was so happy that they had some pushers in different locations of city and those pushers push it away without a problem even when price becomes increased 10 times.

So happy that it still pushes without problems even when pusher doubles price and cuts it 2-5 times. However those times (junkie's hell and junkie's heaven) are far away, seems like in previous life. Now that non existent guy don't have to hustle and live the life you call junkie life. He still has "warm" relationships with "owners" of pushers who remembers how nice he was with them in the past (just x2 was really nice percent back to those day).

So he has no problem with getting fair heroin for a reasonable price. Maybe that's why he has no obsession about opiates destroying his life. Actually he thinks that society destroys junkie's life a way more than junkie do on his own. Besides, he lives in a country where methadone are illegal just like heroin: methadone are forbidden for any use (medical, research, any).

So his mind also free of pink dreams about methadone is some kind of miracle salvation that helps junkie to get up from the bottom of society, it only might help to get into prison (3-7 years in case of >100mg found) here. So methadone for this guy not a quick fix it is a cruel truth of his life. But along with all this problems he still chooses methadone. And heroin is just the tool he uses to detox from methadone fast. Ok, heroin also a bit of fun sometimes.

"Addicted mindset" what a hell is that? Ain't it when addicted one pays too much attention to his addiction, spends his life and energy on fighting with something that he imaging or even something that someone else told to him, harming himself mentally: "omg-omg, I felt again, I'm wick, sick and ugly". Yes there is a problem but in case solution of problem will bring worse problems I would prefer at least to think again is this problem really should be solved right here and right now. SWIM knows what is waiting for him on the other side of cold turkey and what will be a price of it.

Overall, opiate addiction is a chronic pain with falls and remissions. Sometimes a single remission ends with death, natural death I mean, sometime remission ends 1 month after start or 1 year, or 15 years or 2 hours. SWIM takes all this a way easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by missparkles View Post
You know it is possible to quit methadone without too much pain, and the way it's done is to use subutex/suboxone at the very end of the detox.
yeah, but tapping down before jump to sub takes too long.

Last edited by Smeg; 09-09-2013 at 12:16. Reason: Some line-spacing.
  #25  
Old 04-12-2012, 20:27
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.

Look &drew, it seems like there's not much I can add to what you already know, whatever I have tried to add seems to have been totally unwanted. Lastly I'd just like to add that a lot of people (including myself) have tapered down before jumping on the buprenorphine to finish their detox. Again apologies for not being able to add anything that was of any help to you, that was not my intention, obviously.

Sparkles.

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