Drug info - Piracetam - Questions and Answers

[Tony Blair]

Anyone any Questions or any good sources of information about Piracetam, post them here

[skilld]

question. what is it?

[Tony Blair]

Can we be sure, however, that piracetam has NO ill effects at all, otherwise it'd be like fighting fire with fire

The funny thing is, is that Piracetam has been studied, and "how it
works" is still unknown. What is known, is that any study ever
performed has not shown it to have any risks. But what receptors
it works on is unknown.



Bottom line: It has a very </span>high safety profile

[Tony Blair]

Originally Posted by skilld

question. what is it?

Its a nootropic. Basically something that enhances your brain.

Piracetam and other structurally related nootropics.
Gouliaev AH, Senning A. Department of Chemistry, Aarhus University, Denmark.

Nearly three decades have now passed since the discovery of the piracetam-like nootropics, compounds which exhibit cognition-enhancing properties, but for which no commonly accepted mechanism of action has been
established. This review covers clinical, pharmacokinetic, biochemical
and behavioural results presented in the literature from 1965 through
1992 (407 references) of piracetam, oxiracetam, pramiracetam,
etiracetam, nefiracetam, aniracetam and rolziracetam and their
structural analogues. The piracetam-like nootropics are capable of
achieving reversal of amnesia induced by, e.g., scopolamine,
electroconvulsive shock and hypoxia. Protection against barbiturate
intoxication is observed and some benefit in clinical studies with
patients suffering from mild to moderate degrees of dementia has been
demonstrated. No affinity for the alpha 1-, alpha 2-, beta-,
muscarinic, 5-hydroxytryptamine-, dopamine, adenosine-A1-, mu-opiate,
gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) (except for nefiracetam (GABAA)),
benzodiazepine and glutamate receptors has been found. The racetams
possess a very low toxicity and lack serious side effects. Increased
turnover of different neurotransmitters has been observed as well as
other biochemical findings, e.g., inhibition of enzymes such as
prolylendopeptidase. So far, no generally accepted mechanism of action
has, however, emerged. We believe that the effect of the racetams is
due to a potentiation of already present neurotransmission and that
much evidence points in the direction of a modulated ion flux by, e.g.,
potentiated calcium influx through non-L-type voltage-dependent calcium
channels, potentiated sodium influx through
alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid receptor gated
channels or voltage-dependent channels or decreases in potassium
efflux. Effects on carrier mediated ion transport are also possible.

[Tony Blair]

Piracetam improves cognitive performance by restoring neurochemical deficits of the aged rat brain.

Scheuer K, Rostock A, Bartsch R, Muller WE.

Department of Psychopharmacology, Central Institute of Mental Health Mannheim, Germany.

In order to test the hypothesis that piracetam improves cognitive functions by restoring biochemical deficits of the aging brain, we investigated the effects of piracetam treatment (300 mg/kg daily for 6 weeks) on the active avoidance performance of young and aged rats. After testing, the rats were killed and membrane fluidity and NMDA as well muscarinic cholinergic receptor densities were determined in the frontal cortex, the hippocampus, the striatum, as well as the cerebellum. Piracetam treatment improved active avoidance learning in the aged rats only and elevated membrane fluidity in all brain regions except the cerebellum in the aged animals. Moreover, we observed a positive effect of piracetam treatment on NMDA receptor density in the hippocampus and on muscarinic cholinergic receptor densities in the frontal cortex and the striatum and to a lesser extent in the hippocampus. Again, these effects were only observed in aged animals. Discrimination analysis indicated that piracetam effects on membrane fluidity in the frontal cortex, the hippocampus, and the striatum and its effects on NMDA densities in the hippocampus might be involved in its positive effects on cognitive performance.

Featured Interview
LifeMirage graciously granted me an interview concerning the usefulness and effectiveness of Nootropics (smart drugs) as a means to improve and extend the power of mind.

What are nootropics?

My definition of nootropics are natural or synthetic compounds that have a positive effect on 2 or more processes of cognitive functioning or mental performance. I do not consider essential nutrients (B-Vitamins and Omega 3 Fatty Acids) to be nootropics, although they can be helpful. They must not be addictive or toxic and they should be free of most side effects. The most common side effects can be: nausea, headaches, and over stimulation, although these are usually transient. Most of them positively affect 2 or more of the following: Blood flow, Glucose Utilization (Cerebral Energy), and Neurotransmitter’s (Brain chemicals).

Nootropics can protect the brain from most types of damage, reduce the risk of several neurological disorders, and slow or reverse Age-Related Mental Decline or Age-Associated Memory Impairment. Basically they halt brain aging.

Healthy, young, and old adults can take them to enhance their cognitive abilities.

When you stop taking nootropics do you lose their benefits?

Not necessarily, most nootropics if taken daily for 6-12 months can have long lasting effects, although not as strong as being on them.

Where do you buy nootropics?

Most of them are available in the US, the rest from European mail order pharmacies. See the Nootropics Forum for a full listing of sources.

What is your intake?

My current intake, which has changed over the last 5 years (including brain supplements and/or weak nootropics) are: Acetyl-L-Carnitine 1 gram, CDP-Choline 200 mg, PhosphatidylSerine 100mg, Ginkgo Extract 120 mg, Bacopa Extract 100 mg, GlycerolPhosphorylCholine (GPC) 450 mg, Vinpocetine 20 mg, Vincamine 10-20 mg, Piracetam 800-2,400mg, Pyritinol 100-200 mg, Idebenone 45-90 mg, GH3 (Procaine) 50-100 mg, Centrophenoxine (A better source of DMAE) 250 mg, Picamilone 50-150 mg, Hydergine 2.25-4.5 mg, Deprenyl 2.5-5 mg (weekly), Oxiracetam 800 mg (weekly), and Vasopressin 1-2 sprays (Only when studying).

In the future I plan to add Nicergoline (A nootropic similar to Hydergine) and Aniracetam (A fat-soluble more potent form of Piracetam)


What have been your results?

Wow! Let me be more descriptive. Enhanced short & long-term memory (clearer with more details), faster processing time, increased mental energy, more creative, more motivation, better dreaming (more realistic), improved sleep, mental clarity, better sex drive (Deprenyl), and I’m usually in a great mood.


Do you see any regulatory change in the near future allowing for easier access to nootropics?

Unfortunately due to September 11 2001 the FDA is making it harder for US supplement companies to introduce new nootropics due to the large amounts of bulk imports needed to sell them as supplements. Also a few months ago the FDA said that customs was receiving too many small packets of personal imports from overseas and wanted to block all of them from being received. Their concern was that they could not guarantee the safely or quality of these overseas companies. Although they have yet to act on these statements it may only be a matter of time. The only course of action to prevent this from happening is for Americans who care about their rights to personally import any legal non-FDA approved medicine they want, is to keep an eye on the FDA and protest any actions against our rights.

Any new developments on these subjects will be reported in the Nootropics Forum

Thank you BJKlein I enjoyed this Interview, LifeMirage

It's been a pleasure! Thank You for your insight and help.

Nice quote:

My definition of nootropics are natural or
synthetic compounds that have a positive effect on 2 or more processes
of cognitive functioning or mental performance. I do not consider
essential nutrients (B-Vitamins and Omega 3 Fatty Acids) to be
nootropics, although they can be helpful. They must not be addictive or
toxic and they should be free of most side effects. The most common
side effects can be: nausea, headaches, and over stimulation, although
these are usually transient. Most of them positively affect 2 or more
of the following: Blood flow, Glucose Utilization (Cerebral Energy),
and Neurotransmitter’s (Brain chemicals).</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 0, 255);"><br style="color: rgb(51, 0, 255);">Nootropics can protect
the brain from most types of damage, reduce the risk of several
neurological disorders, and slow or reverse Age-Related Mental Decline
or Age-Associated Memory Impairment. Basically they halt brain aging.</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 0, 255);"><br style="color: rgb(51, 0, 255);">Healthy, young, and old adults can take them to enhance their cognitive abilities.</span>

</span>

[daeron]

hey MegaLev,

im glad to see you interested in such a fascinating supstance.Ive been a fan of piracetam for 4 years now,and i truly think that it is the closest thing to a universal woder drug(at the moment,anyway).

here are some quotes and references(they are from my old hard drive,so i cant give you the direct links,sorry)

stay smart

1. Mondadori C Do piracetam-like compounds act centrally via peripheral mechanisms?Brain Res 435: 310-314, 1987. Removing the adrenal glands inactivates any effect of piracetam; therefore, adrenal steroids moderate piracetam's actions somehow.
   Ennaceur A et al. A new one-trial test for neurobiological studies of memory in rats: effects of piracetam and pramiracetam. Behav Brain Res 33: 197-207, 1989. Giving piracetamto rats gives significant amount of retention of recognition of previously introduced objects at 24 hour intervals ("promnesic" effect). Piracetam conjectured to have no effect on working memory but may improve reference memory.
   Mondadori C et al. Blockade of the nootropic action of piracetam-like nootropics by adrenalectomy. Behav Brain Res 34: 155-158, 1989. Adrenalectomized rats do not respond to piracetam at any dosage. Confirms earlier theory of adrenal steroids.

1. Mondadori C Involvement of a steroidal component in the mechanism of action of piracetam-like nootropics. Brain Res 506: 101-108, 1990. Piracetam's mechanism of action may be due to intervention in steroid-sensitive gene transcription/protein synthesis.
   Mondadori C Aldosterone receptors are involved in the mediation of the memory-enhancing effects of piracetam. Brain Res 524: 203-207, 1990. Expands further on the same topic.
   de Angelis L Memory storage and effect of repeated treatment with rubidium chloride. J Intern'l Med Res 19: 395-402, 1991. Piracetam improved memory of rats in this study, but not as well as strychnine or rubidium chloride.

1. Stancheva SL et al. Age-related changes of the effects of a group of nootropic drugs on the content of rat brain biogenic monoamines. Gen Pharmac 22(5): 873-877, 1991. Age-related decrease in the content and turnover rate of biogenic amines (precursors to neurotransmitter chemicals) are examined in senile rats. (Note: don't ask me how they knew the rats were senile.) Piracetam increased the level of amines, and facilitated learning and memory.
   <LI>Nalini K et al. Effects of piracetam on retention and biogenic amine turnover in albino rats. Pharmacol Biochem Behav 42: 859-864, 1992. Piracetam caused a decrease in all neurogenic amines and metabolites in these rats, but there was an overall decreased turnover of brain amines. Increased memory retention noted.
   <LI>Nicoletti, F et al. Excitatory amino acids and neuronal plasticity. Funct Neurol 7: 413-422, 1995. In cultured neurons, piracetam enhanced the stimulation of the influx of calcium ions.
   <LI>Cohen SA and Muller WE. Effects of piracetam on NMDA receptor properties in the aged mouse brain. Pharmacol 47: 217-222, 1993. Piracetam increased the number of specific N-Methyl-D-Aspartate receptors in senile rat brains. The receptors involved appear to be part of the memory process.
   <LI>Rose S Cell-adhesion molecules, glucocorticoids and long-term-memory formation. Trends Neurosci 18(11): 502-506, 1995. Chicks were used to show that the transition of short-term to long term memory may involve the enhanced synthesis of glycoprotein cell-adhesion molecules (CAMs). Steroids enhance this synthesis. The author proposes (but does not test the theory) that nootropics such as piracetam may work by influencing this steroid-enhanced mechanism.
   Jordaan B et al. Cerebral blood flow effects of piracetam...in the baboon model compared with... acetazolamide. Arzneim-Forsch/Drug Res 46(II): 844-847, 1996. Using SPECT imaging of the brain, piracetam is shown to cause increased blood flow to the occipital area and the left side of the brain.
   Verbnyi, YI et al. Piracetam-induced changes in the functional activity of neurons as a possible mechanism for the effects of nootropic agents. Neurosci Behav Physiol 26(6): 507-515, 1996. Piracetam had significant effects on electrical activity of neurons of pond snails, which was mediated by an increase in intracellular calcium. (A lot of research on piracetam has been done in Russia; this is a rare paper from Russia in that it made it into an English translation.)
   Muller WE et al. Effects of piracetam on membrane fluidity in the aged mouse, rat and human brain. Biochem Pharmacol 53: 135-140, 1997. Reduced fluidity of brain cell membranes has been postulated to be responsible for impaired cognitive functions. This paper shows piracetam can increase membrane fluidity in aged rats given piracetam orally for several weeks, and was associated with improved avoidance-learning in those rats. (Human brain cells were taken from autopsy cases and soaked in piracetam in a tube for this study, and showed increased fluidity of membranes also.)
   Verbnyi Y et al. Piracetam-induced changes in the functional activity of neurons as a possible mechanism for the effects of nootropic agents.
   Bartus, Raymond T., et al. "Profound Effects of Combining Choline and Piracetam on Memory Enhancement and Cholinergic Function in Aged Rats." Neurobiology of Aging. 1981, Vol. 2, pp. 105-11.
   
   Buresova, O., Bures, J. "Piracetam-Induced Facilitation of Interhemispheric Transfer of Visual Information in Rats." Psychopharmacologia (Berlin). 1976, Vol. 46, pp. 93-102.
   Bylinsky, G. "Medicine's Next Marvel: The Memory Pill." Fortune. January 20, 1986, pp. 68-72.
   

conserning aniracetam a piracetam analogue:

Aniracetam, a cognition enhancer, has been recently found to preferentially increase extracellular levels of dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5-HT) in the prefrontal cortex (PFC), basolateral amygdala and dorsal hippocampus of the mesocorticolimbic system in stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rats. In the present study, we aimed to identify actually active substances among aniracetam and its major metabolites and to clarify the mode of action in DA and 5-HT release in the PFC. Local perfusion of mecamylamine, a nicotinic acetylcholine (nACh) and N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonist, into the ventral tegmental area (VTA) and dorsal raphe nucleus (DRN) completely blocked DA and 5-HT release, respectively, in the PFC elicited by orally administered aniracetam. The effects of aniracetam were mimicked by local perfusion of N-anisoyl--aminobutyric acid (N-anisoyl-GABA), one of the major metabolites of aniracetam, into the VTA and DRN. The cortical DA release induced by N-anisoyl-GABA applied to the VTA was also completely abolished by co-perfusion of mecamylamine. Additionally, when p-anisic acid, another metabolite of aniracetam, and N-anisoyl-GABA were locally perfused into the PFC, they induced DA and 5-HT release in the same region, respectively. These results indicate that aniracetam enhances DA and 5-HT release by mainly mediating the action of N-anisoyl-GABA that targets not only somatodendritic nACh and NMDA receptors but also presynaptic nACh receptors.

conserning choline/piracetam interaction,interesting stuff:

Neurobiol Aging (UNITED STATES) Summer 1981, 2 (2) p105-11

In an attempt to gain some insight into possible approaches to reducing age-related memory disturbances, aged Fischer 344 rats were administered either vehicle, choline, piracetam or a combination of choline or piracetam. Animals in each group were tested behaviorally for retention of a one trial passive avoidance task, and biochemically to determine changes in choline and acetylcholine levels in hippocampus, cortex and striatum. Previous research has shown that rats of this strain suffer severe age-related deficits on this passive avoidance task and that memory disturbances are at least partially responsible. Those subjects given only choline (100 mg/kg) did not differ on the behavioral task from control animals administered vehicle. Rats given piracetam (100 mg/kg) performed slightly better than control rats (p less than 0.05), but rats given the piracetam/choline combination (100 mg/kg of each) exhibited retention scores several times better than those given piracetam alone.

[daeron]

and there is always www.piracetam.com

[fishinabottle]

Piracetam is completely OTC in the Czech Republic, Tradename "Piracetam" (sic!) and "Pirabene" as a cheaper genericum.
In every pharmacy without problem.

The effect of piracetam on me is that it makes me tired.

[daeron]

thats the first time ive heard of somebody being tired because of piracetam,usually its quite the oposite...are you completely sure about that?


...and i think its otc everywhere except in america...Edited by: daeron

[mattp]

Piracetam has seemed to enhance: amphetamines, LSD, mushrooms, and sometimes alcohol

Piracetam doesn't have any affect on coke, opiates, or benzos to SWIM.

Piracetam + psychadelics = off the wall experiences.

Plus it also honestly helps me study much more effectively.

[Alfa]

Nootropil improves mental function in cognitively impaired patients

Lisbon, Portugal, September 15 /PRNewswire/ -- At least 60 of the patients with dementia or cognitive impairment who took Nootropil(1) (piracetam) achieved clinical relevant improvement in their cognitive functioning, according to results of a meta-analysis(2) of 19 studies with nearly 1500 patients, reported at an international expert meeting held on September 13 in Lisbon, Nootropil: building on the decade of the brain, attended by about 300 physicians.

The analyses provides compelling evidence of the effectiveness of Nootropil in the treatment of age related cognitive disorders: those who took the drug were at least 3 times more likely to get an improvement in their clinical global impression of change (CGIC) score than those who took a placebo(2). Although results from different meta-analyses are not directly comparable, the level of improvement (or clinical relevance) is similar to that seen in clinical trials of the new cholinesterase inhibitor treatments for dementia, galantamine and rivastigmine(2). But extensive safety data show that Nootropil can be prescribed for mental impairment with a low adverse events rate and with little risk that it will interact adversely with one or more of the other drugs that many elderly patients are likely to be taking(3).

Professor Steven Ferris, executive director of the Silberstein Institute for Ageing and Dementia, at New York University, USA, told delegates at the meeting that, because of the large number of studies and patients, the results of the new meta-analysis are more robust than previous research.

From the meta-analysis it has been calculated that doctors would need to treat four patients with Nootropil for one more patient to get improved cognitive functioning than would be expected with placebo. This so-called ’number needed to treat’ (NNT) again compares well with that seen with cholinesterase inhibitors, for which figures range from three to seven(2).

Nootropil is currently the subject of a major 12-month, placebo-controlled trial in 17 European countries to test the drug’s efficacy in mild cognitive impairment (MCI) - a condition identified as a transitional state between the cognitive changes of normal ageing and Alzheimer’s disease (AD). People with MCI experience greater memory loss than would be expected for their age, but they do not meet the clinical criteria for AD.

Recent research from the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, suggests that about one in three patients with MCI are likely to decline into dementia over a period of 3 years, some will probably remain stable or may even improve slightly(4). Professor Bengt Winblad, head of geriatric medicine at the Karolinska Institute, pointed to the importance of ensuring that new treatments for MCI improve symptoms and quality of life for patients, with minimal side effects and drug interactions.

’Prevention and disease modifying strategies are focused on long term treatment for otherwise healthy elderly people who are at risk of dementia, but may not develop the condition. The emphasis therefore needs to be on the long term safety of treatment, not just on its efficacy,’ he concluded at the meeting held in Lisbon on September 13.

Note to editors

Nootropil (piracetam) is a nootropic agent that is widely used in the treatment of cognition and balance disorders. Evidence of its safety is based on extensive clinical trials and annual use equivalent to 1.22 million patient-years. Piracetam is renally excreted and is not subject to metabolisation, and is therefore unlikely to have any drug interactions.

Nootropil was discovered and developed in UCB Pharma’s research laboratories. UCB Pharma headquarted in Brussels (Belgium), is a pharmaceutical company, which operates on a global scale, employing 6.500 people around the world. The pharmaceutical research of UCB includes the following fields: respiratory, including allergy and asthma, and neurology. UCB Pharma’s principle products include Zyrtec(r), Xyzal(r) (anti-allergic), KEPPRA(r) (antiepileptic), Nootropil(r) (cerebral function regulator) and Atarax(r) (tranquilliser). For further information please visit www.ucb-group.com and www.ucbpharma.com

References

1. Nootropil is a registered trademark of the UCB Group. Brand name can change from one country to the other. Please consult your national product information and regulatory status as they may differ.

2. Waegemans T, Wilsher CR, Danniau A et al. Clinical efficacy of piracetam in cognitive impairment: a meta-analysis. Dementia and Geriatric Cognitive Disorders 2002; 13: 217-224

3. Piracetam Company Core Data Sheet- data on file

4. Wahlund L-O, Pihlstrand E, Eriksdotter Jönhagen M. Mild cognitive impairments: experience from a memory clinic. Acta Neurologica Scandinavica 2003; 107 (suppl 179): 21-24

[Bajeda]

Would anyone be able to explain the basic relationship between piracetam and choline, and how one should account for this if they were going on a regimen of piracetam?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good question.

[darawk]

SWIM has recently been supplementing with a rather large variety of nootropics all together. Unfortunately he hasn't been very consistent in his regimen, but he has noticed some beneficial effects. The substances he has been taking:

- Piracetam
- Aniracetam
- Oxiracetam
- Alpha-GPC
- Rhodiola Rosea (cycled on/off every 2 weeks)
- Phenibut (staggered with the rhodiola on/off every 2 weeks)
- Idebenone
- L-Tyrosine
- Huperzine.A
- R-alpha-lipoic-acid
- Acetyl-l-carnitine
- Sulbutiamine

EDIT: For anyone considering combining alpha-gpc(which is a form of choline) with huperzine.a you need to be very careful, as the two can have a strongly synergistic effect as huperzine.a is a cholinesterase inhibitor.

[snapper]

SWIM has used piracetam for about 4 years now. Really helps with fast thinking. SWIM likes to take large doses (2-3g) before work, usually combined with 500mg choline, 500mg centrophenoxine, 300 mg aniracetam, rhodiola rosea, siberian ginseng, caffeine and celastrus panniculatus. Really helps sharpen the mind. As an afterburner, sometimes SWIM likes to add in a low dose of kratom.
Piracetam seems to increase sensitivity to most drugs, esp hallucinogenics. SWIM used to think that SWIM was sensitive to hallucinogenics, but then realized it was the piracetam.
SWIM has not tried other cetams, but will get around to it eventually.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by fishinabottle

The effect of piracetam on me is that it makes me tired.

Originally Posted by daeron

thats the first time ive heard of somebody being tired because of piracetam,usually its quite the oposite...are you completely sure about that?

Swim just started using piracetam recently and finds it works better than caffeine to wake him up in the morning so long as he isn't completely exhausted. He can get to sleep on it fine, but doesn't find it makes him sleepy and it tends to wake his mind up when he takes it early in the day.







Swim is going to get some choline supplements to take with his piracetam regimen. Any idea on what a good amount of choline is to take? I believe the pharmacy ordered 500mg tablets of choline as that was the smallest increment available. Is that a good daily dose to go along with the piracetam?

[howlongisthenight]

SWIM has taken it for two days with choline. He can't say hes really noticed anything exceptional, but can't complain about his mental clarity. He also has taken a supplement (Jumpstart Extreme by 21st century organics) on both these days so he expected to feel awake and alert. SWIM wants to know if other users can feel anything different, or whether its just a noticable increase over time. SWIM definately noticed that it increases the effects of almost any recreational substance. SWIM had a headache, so he took one (ONE) raise off a GB....his headache went away, then he said,"wait a minute! I am actually high off one hit?!?!?" SWIM can't wait to try adderall with this combination, since thats what inspired him to look into Nootropics in the first place.

SWIM takes L-tyrosine, Piracetam, Choline and Acete-L-Carnintine (or however your supposed to say it.) but this is only his second day. Will let you guys know how this goes.

[Bajeda]

I'm still wondering about how much choline swim should take along with his piracetam....

[snapper]

SWIM takes 1 x 350 mg capsule of choline and about 300 mgg of centrophenoxine. Probably double the choline without the latter. I don't think that there is a right answer. Also, it would be better to break up the choline doses into 2 - 3 times daily. Since SWIMs centrophenoxine is about to run out, SWIM was going to try using just choline for a while to see if there is a difference. It is important to not take too much since too much acetylcholine could be an unpleasant thing, though it is unlikely to be a problem with this combo...Let us know what SWIY comes up with. The only way to find out is to try...

[Paracelsus]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

I'm still wondering about how much choline swim should take along with his piracetam....

SWIM takes 400, sometimes 800 mg lecithin (source for choline) along with 1200-2000 mg piracetam. I think the amount taken is up to the individual. SWIY should take enough choline to avoid headaches. If no headaches appear, the amount of choline is probably enough.

Think of piracetam as an extension/optimization for your "engine" (nervous system). The engine will go faster, so it will need more fuel (acetylcholine) to burn.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

SWIM takes 400, sometimes 800 mg lecithin (source for choline) along with 1200-2000 mg piracetam. I think the amount taken is up to the individual. SWIY should take enough choline to avoid headaches. If no headaches appear, the amount of choline is probably enough.

Its funny, cause swim is just ordering choline now after using piracetam for almost a month now and he still hasn't gotten any headaches. He takes anywhere from 1.5-4 grams a day, sometimes more if he feels he needs extra. Besides problems when drinking swim hasn't gotten any side effects really that bother him. He is getting the choline just in case anyways. After he starts taking it I'll ask if he notices a distinct difference in taking piracetam alone or paired with choline.

[Micklemouse]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Besides problems when drinking swim hasn't gotten any side effects really that bother him. He is getting the choline just in case anyways. After he starts taking it I'll ask if he notices a distinct difference in taking piracetam alone or paired with choline.

By "problems when drinking" I assume SWiB is talking about alcohol? Could you expand on this?

[Bajeda]

Basically swim noticed quite shortly after he began his piracetam regimen that his tolerance to alcohol dropped drastically. Swim is a university student so he drinks fairly frequently and he can definitely tell when his sensitivity to alcohol has increased.


The first occaision he noticed this was one of his first nights drinking while back at Uni after winter break. Swim drank a forty of malt liquor, had a few drinks with vodka, and then drank another forty and ended up puking in his room and passing out. This is quite uncharacteristic of him. Swim has a good ability to hold his alcohol and that amount shouldn't have even made him sick, or even that drunk for that matter.

Swim also found that if he took piracetam right before he left to go out partying he would get ridiculously drunk. This became most obvious when he took a few grams of piracetam and went to a friends place and had 2-3 beers and was feeling outright drunk already.

Another occaision that comes to mind is when swim made the dumb decision of taking half a pill of ecstasy along with some piracetam and then start drinking. This didn't go so well and was a dumb decision to begin with. It ended up with swim blacking out five hours of the night and pissing on a glass sliding door inside the house in the morning because he couldn't make it outside in time. That may have been the MDMA, though swim also peed his bed once after a heavy night of drinking after he took piracetam.


Since all these instances have occurred swim has been regulating his piracetam intake so that he can still drink. Swim takes piracetam daily besides Friday and Saturday, and then he takes extra on Sunday to compensate for the missed days and to help with his hangover from the weekend. This works fine for swim and he hasn't noticed any problems drinking on the weekend anymore since he stopped taking piracetam on his heavy drinking days.

[snapper]

SWIM has never noted this effect. In fact, SWIM finds that if anything, SWIMs tolerance to alcohol is higher than its ever been. SWIM takes piracetam everyday.
Well, YMMV, as always. Maybe SWIM's just tolerant to this effect after using this for a couple of years now.

[Bajeda]

Swim doesn't have enough experience with piracetam to be able to evaluate its synergistic effects with alcohol. The effects he has obtained from the alcohol-piracetam combination may just be from his not supplementing his regimen with choline, or some other factor.

Also, I want to note that swim doesn't so much notice a very strong effect in regards to influencing alcohol tolerance when he takes piracetam in the morning as he does regularly, but he does notice a change in the level of effects alcohol has on him when he takes piracetam in close proximity to drinking. This may be the issue here, or as you said it could just be a temporary effect that diminishes over time. Too difficult to tell at this point.

[wellhelm]

If I missed it please point me in the right direction and yes I did UTFSE. If I wanted to use nootropic's to improve cognitive function would there be a problem taking them in combination with SSRI's?

Also, does anyone have any experience with the shilajit?