TEK - CWE Problems

[trollet2]

Hello. SWIM posted this in the newbie chemistry but he think that was the wrong section to place it in, and if it is please delete that and SWIM apologizes. Below is the post:

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Hello SWIMMERS!

SWIM has recently got a handful of tabs containing 10mg Codeine Phosphate and 500mg Paracetamol. SWIM is well experienced with codeine, having had access to pure 30mg codeine sulfate pills - yum! That said, SWIM attempted a CWE on 20 of these pills and obtained a very clear liquid, which is the expected result. SWIM drank the semi-bitter (he's use to bitter concoctions) liquid, and to his suprise felt as if he had only dosed 30-60mg. Wondering what happened, SWIM did another CWE on 250mg and had the same result. SWIM slowly increased up to 330mg and still feels he is only receiving 30-60, 100mg max of codeine phosphate. Having went through nearly 300 of these damn pills and not having a satisfactory experience, SWIM wants to figure out why his extractions are so weak before he runs out!

Below is the jist of his method, followed from this very forum:
1) Add 2ml for each pill to a glass
2) Allow pills to dissolve, stir well
3) Put in freezer
4) Stir every 3-4 minutes until hints of ice form on top
5) Pour into another cup through 3 wet coffee filters
6) Drink if result is clear or slightly cloudy, if very cloudy use liquid and go to step 3.

SWIM has only had to refilter once, every other time the result was a nice clear liquid.

What's the deal?

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Last night SWIM did it a little differently. SWIM thoroughly crushed the 240mg worth of pills with a mortar and pestle, dissolved in the coldest tap water, and stirred every two minutes. SWIM used very cold water to wet the filter (actually placed it in the freezer and it froze after a minute - woops!) also. The result was a near-perfectly clear result, but the effects were again sub-par. SWIM has only 192 left and would like to at least get one genuine, positive experience from this!

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice post, nice how you use SWIM & describe SWIYs problems thorougly. keep going like that :) silver member now :)

[0utrider]

well, take a look in my signature, theres a link to a CWE faq. it highly depends on the stuff SWIY uses. but in SWIMS opinion one coffee filter is enough, so maybe one should try tha! and yes, keep it cold, but usually SWIM experiences when a lil ice forms at the top of the water in the freezer, theres also some already frozen on the bottom of the glass, so maybe SWIY should make sure that that doesnt happen. 5 C° are completley enough, even "just cold" is enough!

in the signature is a chemistry list of how much water is needed for how much apap/codeine, maybe check that. also dissolving is important, warm water and good stirring, maybe even letting it sit over the night might help. again, too cold is not necessary, some even say its contra-productive. of coures, crushing the pills as fine as possible is a must!

and SWIY ähm.. does he have any tolerance? if so, no surpirse it doesnt work.. it might well be up to 30% loss.. i'd estimate. SWIM has a product which has an antihistaminika, that makes the opiate feeling stronger (also sedates about though) and thus doesnt really relize that its less..
hope SWIM was able to help you

And btw nice post, welcome to the DF!

btw sry that with the silver member, apparently 10 more points needed.. then you'll be able to edit/move your posts.. and the opiate chemistry forum would be the correct one, i suppose (even though more people read in the codeine forums)

[trollet2]

SWIM is trying this again, following your advice, on 330mg. He thuroughly powdered the pills in a M&P, and then added to around 66ml of warm water. Stirred for approximately 5 minutes then into the freezer. He will begin filtering before hints of ice, and use one cold wet coffee filter.

SWIM has a slight tolerance, but not to the point that 300mg would do little! He has for the past few days been attempting these CWEs. A few days prior to receiving his new pills, he used approx. 180mg of codeine sulfate. Previously, he has had times where he used greater amounts more frequently, always having desirable effects at the same dosage. SWIM suspects his extractions were weak, he does not suspect tolerance is the culprit. If this extraction doesn't yield desirable effects, SWIM will abstain from any more doses for a week+ then try again.

In the mean time, he may try making something smokable from Kratom. SWIM has a pound bag that has been sitting for a few months, waiting to be used. He finds Kratom to be too much to drink anymore, the smell of it immediately nauseates him, and the last memories he has of Kratom involve projectile puking - no fun!

SWIM hopes to finally nail down this CWE and achieve good yields, he finds codeine to relieve his wrist and neck pain very well but refuses to dose with APAP!

[0utrider]

66ml is not enough. SWIY should more or less take a whole glass of warm water with it. also, ok, maybe 300mg might be enough, but SWIY has to calculate that he might loose up to 30% soo if 200 (or more) can still be enough it should work witht that method.

[trollet2]

SWIM thought the formula was # of pills x 2ml? So 33 pills x 2ml would be 66ml.

In any event, SWIM didn't have desirable effects from that extraction. Now SWIM will keep another 320mg in 75ml water overnight, then will try this once more before giving it a week rest.

SWIM estimated the amount he had would last around a month, but due to these weak extractions they lasted a week, if that! He will have to order more. He was thinking of checking out Perduretas which contain 50mg codeine phosphate, and only that! They're also cheaper. Supposedly they have a bit of wax in them, I wonder how well a CWE would work on them though at that mg/pill it may be easier just to crush and eat!

[0utrider]

its true what you say, by chemical facts, but SWIMs experience is, that a full glass of water is way better than this pillx2ml formula. it also highly depends on the temperature, it changes the formula. SWIM would really just go by "warm" water, a whole glas, and if SWIY doesnt like the taste maybe on really low fire evaporize it, btut the taste is really not so bad, then try this overnight thing, stirr it really well, and it should work.. SWIM hopes SWIY will have a good result by that procedure.. (sry swim is high right now, his english is a little weird..)

[trollet2]

As per SWIYs suggestions, SWIM has added 25ml more to the glass (100ml total with 320mg - now 3.25ml/pill) and will let it sit and dissolve in the fridge for 2-3 more hours. This is roughly 2/3 of the glass SWIM uses. SWIM doesn't want to go much higher than 100ml. He also doesn't mind the bitterness, and finds it very mild to say Kratom or even PST. His motto is bitterness is a sign of activeness

[0utrider]

SWIM ıs curıous about the outcome, even though he alsoways goes for around 200 ml... and just one fılter (but carefully sınce ıt mıght break)

[trollet2]

Effects were a bit better. Unfortunately SWIM is out of pills and is unsure if he wants to order again given his relatively bad experiences with this. He will look into Perds which, if available and accessible, would be better as there is no need for extractions. SWIM thinks he may just do both, since getting Perds will take longer.

SWIM wonders if there are any different extraction teks for codeine + para, aside from CWE, which may be better and more reliable. He is thinking A/B.

SWIM is also contemplating acquiring more poppy pods and trying to get a smokable extract. He once tried evaporating PST which resulted in a nice amber flake, but reports that it didn't seem too active. He would very much like to get a smokable and experience that.

[MW]

Hi, I'm new here.

SWIM did a CWE last night and it worked perfectly... this is what SWIM did:

- Put pills into a ziplock bag
- put ziplock bag into another ziplock bag
- remove air and seal
- take a sharpening stone (for knives) and roll/press it over the bags crushing the tablets into a fine powder, double bag is to ensure no punctures will happen.

- cut corner of ziplock bag, empty contents into a small container or cup
- run tap water until hot, fill cup with water (maybe 3/4rs full)
- stir, powder dissolves very easily into water

- let mixture come to room temperature (apparently if you cool it too fast this is not good)

-after it's at room temperature put it in freezer for 20-30 minutes (use another container or bowl with a wide surface area so it cools faster.

-take it out when it's cold to the touch

- get 3 glasses and 3 coffee filters

- mount each glass with a coffee filter (you can use rubber band to prevent the filter from falling into the cup if you need to... SWIM didn't

-distribute liquid across three filters/glasses (spreading it so it filters more quickly)

- Squeeze extra into glasses once it looks like the filtration is not moving anymore.

This resulted in a very clear liquid, SWIM said it almost looked like water.

SWIM also mentioned that it tasted HORRIBLE, and SWIM added 5 packets of Crystal light individuals and it still tasted like absolute shit.

SWIM would like to know if anyone else has ways of making the liquid tolerable to drink.

Anyways, this was my first post, i hope i didn't break any rules and hope SWIM's experiences may add something beneficial.

[You Are]

Originally Posted by MW

Hi, I'm new here.

SWIM did a CWE last night and it worked perfectly... this is what SWIM did:

- Put pills into a ziplock bag
- put ziplock bag into another ziplock bag
- remove air and seal
- take a sharpening stone (for knives) and roll/press it over the bags crushing the tablets into a fine powder, double bag is to ensure no punctures will happen.

- cut corner of ziplock bag, empty contents into a small container or cup
- run tap water until hot, fill cup with water (maybe 3/4rs full)
- stir, powder dissolves very easily into water

- let mixture come to room temperature (apparently if you cool it too fast this is not good)

-after it's at room temperature put it in freezer for 20-30 minutes (use another container or bowl with a wide surface area so it cools faster.

-take it out when it's cold to the touch

- get 3 glasses and 3 coffee filters

- mount each glass with a coffee filter (you can use rubber band to prevent the filter from falling into the cup if you need to... SWIM didn't

-distribute liquid across three filters/glasses (spreading it so it filters more quickly)

- Squeeze extra into glasses once it looks like the filtration is not moving anymore.

This resulted in a very clear liquid, SWIM said it almost looked like water.

SWIM also mentioned that it tasted HORRIBLE, and SWIM added 5 packets of Crystal light individuals and it still tasted like absolute shit.

SWIM would like to know if anyone else has ways of making the liquid tolerable to drink.

Anyways, this was my first post, i hope i didn't break any rules and hope SWIM's experiences may add something beneficial.

That was actually really helpful, swim will definitely use some of that advice when he does a cwe. I know this is kind of offtopic but how much time should swim give his liver to heal, he took codeine (w/o doing a cwe, which resulted in a lot of apap) 5 days in a row and then had two days of heavy drinking. Would SWIM be able to do the cwe right now because most of the apap is out anyway, or should he not risk it?

[MW]

Originally Posted by You Are

That was actually really helpful, swim will definitely use some of that advice when he does a cwe. I know this is kind of offtopic but how much time should swim give his liver to heal, he took codeine (w/o doing a cwe, which resulted in a lot of apap) 5 days in a row and then had two days of heavy drinking. Would SWIM be able to do the cwe right now because most of the apap is out anyway, or should he not risk it?

If you are extracting it i wouldn't worry too much about your liver but more about frequency of use and developing a dependency. I've heard that the liver damage from apap is cumulative and not really acute unless you're ingesting massive massive amounts (someone said 10g+) of apap in a single dose... but even still i wouldn't want to take much apap, even if it is under the daily maximum (4g)

According to a few sites codeine abuse potential is pretty low compared to benzos and stronger opiates but it is still an opiate regardless.

also forgot to mention you need to pre-wet the filters with some cold water... after you are done filtration you are left with a substance comparable to marshmellow, but much more dense... i've been told you can stir this with a bit of cold and filter it again to get even more opiod out of it... not sure if it's true, but worth a shot.

MW added 50 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

SWIM would also like to mention that the best thing he's used to mask the bitter taste is cranberry soda -- he was using diet, but regular would work even better... it was comparable to the amount of bitterness you'd get from a regular mixed alcoholic drink

[0utrider]

well and expcept for "mixing" or similar things, like juices etc, thers no way of taking aaway the bitterness, since its just the taste of the codeine!

[MW]

SWIM found a shitload of Grape sugarless kool aid at his local store and bought a few boxes, he also bought some diet tonic water.

[You Are]

SWIM finally got around to doing a cwe. He did the two spoons method to crush the pills but found that some was lost on the floor as a little bit of the pill got stuck on the back end of the spoon and fell. SWIM found this frustrating but he did pick up the pieces that were big enough to pick up. He had to use this method because hitting a hammer against a ziploc baggy isnt exactly the quietest way to do something with his mom sick in the next room. After that he filled the cup up about 2/3rds full with warm water and stirred. The mixture was cloudy sometimes, clear sometimes, and even as opague/white as milk sometimes. He figured he didnt crush the pills up enough as he could see little chunks floating around in the mixture. He still proceeded to put the cup in the freezer, hoping he didnt do anything wrong. It is currently in there and swim will check on it in 25 mins. Has swim messed up so far? What are the consequences of the pills not being crushed up enough? Some of them were crushed down to a fine powder but a fair amount of them still had chunks in one way or another.

[0utrider]

well the only thing that can happen is that SWIY will end up with a product that doesnt have as much of what he wants as it could have, but its possible for him to take the powder (i.e. apap/pcm + opioid leftover) out of the coffefilter, pulverize the chunks again and filter again (and mix it with the first product and drink) he would end up with slightly more APAP/PCM (if done with cold water & coffe filter) but not much, and a bite more codeine, not so much, depending on how badly he crushed them or how well the chunks dissolved. he can use warm/hot (not too hot) do make the pills dissovle more easily

[You Are]

Is the coffee filter supposed to take 25+ mins to filter everything?

[0utrider]

depending on the product SWIY is using.. if so, split it up, use 3 filters/glasses/procedures at the same time. for SWIM the majority of the water takes just a few minutes, but the last drops can alone be 10 minutes.. 20 minutes is a lot, also since the stuff heats up a bit..

[You Are]

SWIM was also in a rush and didnt have the chance to pre wet/put ice on the filter. In general swim feels this was a complete failure (mostly due to the fact that everything had to be rushed/quiet) but looks at it as a learning experience.

[0utrider]

believe SWIM, he went through the same, as do most, but the 2nd time will work . but still, SWIM thinks if the solution is clear, why not give it a try

[MW]

Originally Posted by outriderx

believe SWIM, he went through the same, as do most, but the 2nd time will work . but still, SWIM thinks if the solution is clear, why not give it a try

nods .

[You Are]

Originally Posted by outriderx

believe SWIM, he went through the same, as do most, but the 2nd time will work . but still, SWIM thinks if the solution is clear, why not give it a try

SWIM got impatient with the filtering process and just dumped what was left still to be filtered into the toilet (he didnt feel like waiting 3+hrs). From what he got from the solution it was very clear, almost water like. Being incredibly frustrated swim just chugged back all of what was in the solution. Swim agrees with everyone else that says it tastes like absolute hell but was more frustrated by the failed attempt/wasted time then the terrible taste. As bad as it is, it is still bareable. Hopefully 20 minutes from now swim feels some kind of buzz but chances are slim. He will definitely make sure his next cwe doesnt end up the way this one did.

You Are added 12 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

I would edit this to my other post but I cant. SWIM had alot of fruits today (bananas and apples mostly) would these have any effect on making it stronger for him? He also has fruit juice in the fridge mixing a lot of different fruits but he doesn't think grape fruit is one of them. Would it be worth it to try the juice to potentiate it, or does that only work before ingestion?

[MW]

Originally Posted by You Are

SWIM got impatient with the filtering process and just dumped what was left still to be filtered into the toilet (he didnt feel like waiting 3+hrs). From what he got from the solution it was very clear, almost water like. Being incredibly frustrated swim just chugged back all of what was in the solution. Swim agrees with everyone else that says it tastes like absolute hell but was more frustrated by the failed attempt/wasted time then the terrible taste. As bad as it is, it is still bareable. Hopefully 20 minutes from now swim feels some kind of buzz but chances are slim. He will definitely make sure his next cwe doesnt end up the way this one did.

You Are added 12 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

I would edit this to my other post but I cant. SWIM had alot of fruits today (bananas and apples mostly) would these have any effect on making it stronger for him? He also has fruit juice in the fridge mixing a lot of different fruits but he doesn't think grape fruit is one of them. Would it be worth it to try the juice to potentiate it, or does that only work before ingestion?

I wrote a quick guide on how to do the CWE and a few notes on potentiators... it might be worthwhile for you to take a look at it .. should be in this forum somewhere, it's not hard to find.