Opium Poppies

[Golfo]

How much opium in grams can you get from one poppy, after all the milkings?

[chinpokomaster]

It depends on the strain and how many pods per poppy. Some types produce more latex and some produce more potent latex. In practice, I don't think it's worth milking them unless you have a LOT of poppies.

[Golfo]

Im talking around 200 poppies mabey more, how much opium per white seeded?

[Ididnotinhale]

Originally Posted by chinpokomaster

It depends on the strain and how many pods per poppy. Some types produce more latex and some produce more potent latex. In practice, I don't think it's worth milking them unless you have a LOT of poppies.

Swim thinks it is better to milk them, he has heard that when they are dried they loose half of their potency.

Swim knows mostly about the tea, so if swiy is not interested about poppy tea don't read below, it's a little bit off tea, but should help.

I would definetly say they have less than 80mg of opiates in pods. Because if swiy thinks about it, often opiate naive persons will use about 8 pods. That would equal 640 mg, which would likely kill a naive person.

Swim uses about 30 xl pods to get off and this seems equal to when swim uses 600 mg of morphine. So swim would say each pod(depending on size) has between 15 to 20 mg of morphine.

That's dried though, so if they are not dried it would be 30 to 40 mg. This amount still seems pretty high.

hope that helps

[chinpokomaster]

I read elsewhere, from an experienced grower, that typical yield is 80mg per pod but can range from 10 to 120 per pod over the life of the pod. That's latex yield, not morphine content. I think morphine content is about 21% of that.

[minniet]

Does the poppy keep producing latex after it is incised? Such as it starts to bleed latex, so the plant produces more to make up the loss?
Or does the poppy only produce so much latex, whether it is incised or not?
SWIM was wondering, if harvest time came around and she expedited matters by harvesting the whole pod, as opposed to incising, then whacking off the pod, if she would be losing out on some final product.
This, I guess, assumes SWIM is going the CFO route...
One more question, in the CFO tek, how important is the drying of the pods? The chloraphyll (sp) isn't that bad, is it? As it appears to be the only reason to dry the pods first.
It is SO awkward reading SWIM's mind, and asking questions for her, hehe.

My appologies to Golfo for any thread hijack

Minniet

[chinpokomaster]

A pod can be milked multiple times but I'm not sure whether that's because the latex clots or because it produces more. I think you can milk it every day until it stops bleeding.

[vantranist]

How many pods do you expect from 1 poppy plant?

SWIM used seeds he found in "jumbo" or "mammoth" pods and he would like too know what to expect from his plants. he orginaly thought only 1.

[waltz#2]

Incising a pod is a good way to get thrown in jail. One could claim that whole pods were merely for ornamental purposes until they hit the blender (or SWIY's grinder is found with alkaloid traces all up in it). A bunch of heads bobbing around with pin pricks, there is no question of the legality.

Based on that (and the ability of the goodies inside the pod to be easily removed with regular tap water), SWIM recommends SWIY keep the blade away from the pods.

[samuraigecko]

SWIM has noticed that he can harvest about half a gram per poppy head of latex through his consecutive bleeding method outlined in a thread in this section.

The amount harvested depends on the method used, the time of day the bleeds are done, the actual potential for bleeding that the pod itself has, the strain of P.somniferum it was bled from etc etc. There are far too many factors to name or to give a reliable estimate on how much would be produced.

Also the morphine content can vary from pod to pod as well as from strain to strain. This can be anywhere from 10% to 35%.

Hope this has been of help

[Morocco]

Herein, it seems to me, lies the holy grail of Poppyology. I have read so much (here and elsewhere) on processing seedpods, some of it quite complicated, and then on what to do with the results, that i wish I (and many others possibly) could have some clear information from the wise (al)chemists amongst us on:

1. How much good stuff does swim throw away if he incises (is that called lancing?) the pods and then discards them after bleeding?

2. How much good stuff would he gain, by comparison, if instead of incising he ground up (fresh) heads, soaked them good and then filtered and dried the results?

3.Waltz No. 2 above says, if I understand correctly, that the opium is water soluble - so by soaking the ground material in water swim would get all that latex he would have bled out plus all that would have stayed behind and he would not LOSE anything. Is alcohol or any other chemical processing necessary to get more opium out, or will the water do?

4. And then the question that comes out of all these questions - I promised swim I'd ask: The filtered and dried paste, will it make an effective smoke? Swim has done this with poppies grown from common culinary seeds and the effect was very mild but pleasing. He ground the green pods and soaked them in water and alcohol.

Swim begs your indulgence. He knows that in an ordinary home garden he would not get enough good old-fashioned opium latex to dry and smoke, and he also knows that the elders here collectively know the answer to the mystery.

Mind you, why anyone would want to smoke flowers beats me ...

Yours gratefully

MOROCCO

[waltz#2]

There are much stronger opiods (or opiates, never good with names) than H. SWIM feels H is popular because it is cheap, strong, and easy to make. Kind of like beer, just because everyone asks the bartenders for Budweiser, doesn't make it the king (as much as they'd like to convince the public they are).

Estimates vary but SWIM has read 40-50% of the alkaloids stay in the pod when bled. Of those about half again get recovered through each wash. I.E. 50% of 50% is 25%. 50% of 25% is 12.5%. That is in industrial applications though. SG would know more than SWIM, bout it seems to him the raw O is mostly harvested to avoid large processing plants for the leftover materials, raw O is ready to sell as is.

It would depend on the technique utilized by a SWIMMER as to how much can be obtained. If they are anal and wash over and over again, nearly all of it. Most SWIMMERS are pleased with one wash when done right, others like two, but most find more than that a waste of time when enough solvent (water) is used.

Other solvents have the potential to dissolve plant material, which SWIY does not want.

There are many factors that go into making a satisfactory smokable product. SWIY should read up on 1. when to harvest pods, 2. the CFO tek that SWISG wrote up. Both of these will lead SWIY to bigger, better yields. Seeds for cooking can be hit or miss. SWIM has heard that when they are hit, SWIY should not have plans for the rest of the day, or possibly life.

[Morocco]

Thank you, Waltz. A very clear answer. I'll follow up on your leads. Swim tells me had has got some tiny quantities of persian white, tazzies, hen and chicken, giganthemum and something called lilacs for next time, so the hit or miss might not be quite so hit or miss.

Peace & happiness

MOROCCO

Morocco added 1 Minutes and 41 Seconds later...

Er... that should read: tiny quantities of persian white etc SEEDS.

Sorry

MOROCCO

[samuraigecko]

SWIwaltz is extremely correct.

Bleeding does not extract all of the available alkaloids from a pod. When using certain theoretical techniques outlines in this section of the forum most hypothetical scientists use either a combination of bled latex and the dried poppy straw (dried pods with 10cm of stem in powdered form - CPS or concentrated poppy straw) or just CPS on its own.

Through using methods outlined as such, nearly 100% of the alkaloids can be extracted.

Apparently in a test laboratory a money kept the grounds after extraction and ate them with no effect what so ever, further showing that the left over material after extraction is either void of active alkaloids or has so little left that it would produce no effect.

It is the reason why large legal opiate farming companies and legal opiate processing plants use a water extraction on CPS rather than bleeding poppies in a field. Commercial opiate producers are not going to let the slightest part of a dollar slip through their fingers if at all possible.

The third worlders whom are responsible for illegal opium production still use traditional methods for the most part because they either know no better or because that is how they have done it for hundreds of years.

The fact after all of this remains, and that is that CFO is the most efficient method and is used by commercial opiate producers throughout the world in the legal opiate industry.

Hope this has been of help

[Morocco]

Thank you Samuraigecko. This is so simple, so elegant! A pared down way for Swim to get all the raw opium out of the pods (with the bonus of 10cm of stem and leaves thrown in) simply and efficiently - and without leaving scored poppy heads in the garden, which, as Waltz said, is not a good thing.

SG, I went back to my homework and saw that Swiy is absolutely against boiling the water/plant mix. So "cooked flake opium" is really "slightly heated etc"?

And the "flake" bit. In Swim's limited experience of reducing his mix to solids he got a sticky brown putty. How do you get flake or indeed "brown powder" as some posters report?

Now to the soil ... the first rains of winter are here and I want to start my garden while there is still a bit of warmth in the air.

Thank you once again.

MOROCCO

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by Morocco

Thank you Samuraigecko. This is so simple, so elegant! A pared down way for Swim to get all the raw opium out of the pods (with the bonus of 10cm of stem and leaves thrown in) simply and efficiently - and without leaving scored poppy heads in the garden, which, as Waltz said, is not a good thing.

No leaves, they contain little to nothing, just the pod and 10cm of stem as outlined in the CFO guide.

Originally Posted by Morocco

SG, I went back to my homework and saw that Swiy is absolutely against boiling the water/plant mix. So "cooked flake opium" is really "slightly heated etc"?

This is exactly right, Morphine is destroyed at 82.6c. Anything above this for prolonged periods will either significantly reduce the morphine content or in some cases destroy the morphine content all together.

For this reason SWIM suggests that lab tests are performed without any boiling or bubbling of the solution occurring.

Originally Posted by Morocco

And the "flake" bit. In Swim's limited experience of reducing his mix to solids he got a sticky brown putty. How do you get flake or indeed "brown powder" as some posters report?

This is a part that can vary because of the strain used and how much alkaloids are present and mainly how well the solution was filtered. Some people will come out with a putty and some will come out with a flake. A way to make certain SWIyou come out with a flake every time is to make sure that the filtration has been as good as possible. The better the filtration the "flakier" the result becomes because all plant fats, waxes and loose materials have been removed from the solution. One will know if they have filtered the solution correctly because the solution should be a "see through" amber/brown color with absolutely NO visible debris.

Hope this has been of help