Oral use - Drinking coca : tea / mate de coca, non alcoholic drinks

[billbryan]

My friend aquired some Yerbi mate de coca tea and was wondering if anyone has any experience with this stuff or found the best way to use it. He wasn't expecting great results from the tea, more like a cup of coffee with less jitters type of stim., but has found effect to be less than expected. Anyway he has tried 3brews and he added lime juice to one with no noticable difference. What should he do? Try using twobags? Making a quid and sucking onthe leaves with some lime? Any suggestions?

[Benga]

lime juice as in lemon ? if this is the case it's not a good idea at all as you're making things acidic. You want to make liquid basic for alkaloids to freebase out.


Adding sodium bicarbonate, or limestone paste ( the type used for betel chewing szold in asian markets) would work.


tea is weak and will stay weak. You could steep say 50 gs of leaves in 50 cl strongest drinkable alcohol you could find for a few days, possbily adding sodium bicarb until ph is around 8. This would make the taste horrible, but this can be fixed by distillation (nothing fancy, just a pot still ). if a shot of this liquor makes your mouth numb, then the alkaloids are present.


If you want to go the buccal way, yes it works but don't expect wonders. Take three bags (3g) or 10g (better but big)and empty them in some gauze, medical grade tissue or anything that won't break in your mouth. let this bathe in your saliva for 10 minutes to get the leaves wet. Then add a pellet of limstone paste or sodium bicarb, either to the packet or directly to your mouth. Just make sure you're salivating enough or it will burn your muqous slightly (like pizza that's too hot).


now's the dull part : don't swallow your saliva for 30 / 45 minutes. The alkaloids are absorbed by your mouth's muquous, which should start to get numb. now this won't taste great, and you won't really be able to talk for 45 minutes. And after you might want to wash your greenish teeth. you will be stimulated, this also depends on the quality of your leaves but it *will* work. Nothing like a line of cocaine but you can tell that it's part of the picture.


yeah socially picchar isn't great, but this is the price to pay to use coca the traditionnal way...


cheers


bEdited by: benga

[Benga]

Originally Posted by punkanini

I've seen extracted & powdered coca leaves for sale on certain dark corners of the web, does anyone know of the insufflation potential with this? Is it only good for tea?

if you're talking about c. sour like preparations, no go.


it's very good for tea and gives quite a nice kick to alcoholic brewages, but the taste is special.


a good drink though, stimulation found to be stronger than tea but nothing to get wired about. Some have also found the mixture weak, so...

[punkanini]

so it's physically impossible to insufflate?

[Benga]

Originally Posted by punkanini

so it's physically impossible to insufflate?

considering that the dose that you would want to dissolve in a glass is around one or two tablespoonfuls for a very mild effect, that it doesn't disolve that well ( you have to stir for a few minutes) and that it's also got sugar and flavour agentsin it among other things, one would guess that it's not possible. same goes for coca leaf powder, which is basically what this is except flavoured and made soluble...


just dissolve 100 grams of sour ina bottle ofwhisky, add some coca cola and lemon juiceand drink that, good drink and the sour counterbalances the depressant qualities of alcoholEdited by: benga

[Benga]

Another option, which is delicious : hot coca wine.
look for the recipe by typing "tonic" in the search engine.
this not only works but tastes really good, which is not always the case with coca leaf based preparations
b

[genaro]

here's my own reciepe:

crush 10g (some might want to use more, such as 20-30g) dried coca leaves into a very fine powder. Poor 250mL boiling water over these (if you want a slightly alcoholic drink just use 200mL water and 50mL vodka but I think it would probably taste better with water only) and then add 50mL lemon juice to the mix. Let sit for 24 hours, shaking vigorously quite often. Filter through a piece of cloath, pressing/squeezing well to recover all the juice. Filter again through a cofee filter (without pressing/squeezing this time). Heat the mix on low heat and once it's hot (but not boiling) place two (or even three) teabags in it for 10 minutes, stirring regularly. Then remove the teabags and place the liquid in a small bottle (33-35cL) and add LOTS of sugar in it (until it tastes ok for u), possibly a little honey too. Shake well for 5 minutes. You now have a delicious energy drink for a nice evening (tastes just great and provide quite some energy).
You can drink the whole 33cL bottle all at once without risks (which you probably will as the taste is wonderful), of course if you want your drink to last the all night, just do the same thing but with a 1L bottle, multiplicating every proportions by 3 (30-100g coca, 9teabags....) but then you shouldn't drink it too fast as there will be more cocaine in it.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by genaro

here's my own reciepe:

crush 10g (some might want to use more, such as 20-30g) dried coca leaves into a very fine powder. Poor 250mL boiling water over these (if you want a slightly alcoholic drink just use 200mL water and 50mL vodka but I think it would probably taste better with water only) and then add 50mL lemon juice to the mix. Let sit for 24 hours, shaking vigorously quite often.it.

Genaro, on the recipe you described above, I do have two comments / questions :

absorption of the alkloids through drinking is weaker as a lot of the alkaloids are lost, whereas absorbtion through the mouth mucosa allows more to get into the bloodstream quicker. but coca drinks are fun too, especially with alcohol (yes, it's toxic, and bad for your body)

on preparation

boiling water is potentially detrimental to alkaloids, as most sources mention too much heat can cause them to breakdown. It would probably be wiser to use sub-boiling temperature hot water ISHO.

And why add lemon juice at the begining ?
Lemon juice increases the acidity of the liquid, and alkaloids are extracted in a basic medium, ideal pH being 9, ie quite basic... can't figure out how this could not hinder extraction, if anyone could explain I would appreciate it.
Nothing wrong with adding lemon juice for taste after the alkaloids have been extracted, but in the initial phase I don't get it.
If anything, one could add sodium bicarbonate ( which is foul and can cause stomach problems when drinking it, since the basic liquid will eventually mix with stomach acids...likely reaction being diarhea), or a lightly basic liquid like purple grape juice, not sure this would really do anything though.

is there any way extraction in an acid solution would work ?

thanks

b

[genaro]

In SWIM's experience, the tea SWIM made was effective, giving some strong stimulation (by ingestion)...now, if SWIY want SWIY can gargle each mouthful of liquid for 5-10min before swallowing it but SWIM's purpose was to get a very pleasant tasting drink, to be used in a simple/quick way (SWIM had planned to drink it slowly all over the night but SWIM drank the whole 33cL bottle within 5-10 minutes because SWIM was thirsty and it was tasting soo good that I couldn't keep any for later on)

about boiling water: note that SWIM didn't boil the leaves in water, SWIM pourred boiling water over these, so very little harm is done to alkaloids (just think many people do the same with shrooms while psilocybin is quite heat sensitive).

lemon juice was added both for the taste and for extracting the alcaloids as to SWIM's knowledge cocaine is much more soluable in water as a salt than as a base. I SWIM wrong about it? (SWIM always thought this was true for any alkaloid: always more soluable in acidic solution)

bicarbonate will definately ruin the taste of the drink to SWIM's opinion.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by genaro

In my experience, the tea I made was effective, giving some strong stimulation (by ingestion)...now, if you want you can gargle each mouthful of liquid for 5-10min before swallowing it but my purpose was to get a very pleasant tasting drink, to be used in a simple/quick way (I had planned to drink it slowly all over the night but I drank the whole 33cL bottle within 5-10 minutes because I was thirsty and it was tasting soo good that I couldn't keep any for later on)

about boiling water: note that I didn't boil the leaves in water, I pourred boiling water over these, so very little harm is done to alkaloids (just think many people do the same with shrooms while psilocybin is quite heat sensitive).

lemon juice was added both for the taste and for extracting the alcaloids as to my knowledge cocaine is much more soluable in water as a salt than as a base. Am I wrong? (I always thought this was true for any alkaloid: always more soluable in acidic solution)

bicarbonate will definately ruin the taste of the drink to my opinion.

I think you are wrong on the acidification, as all extraction procedures really focus on the need to make the solution basic ( ie the mixture of a little water and sodium carbonate with a non-polar in cocaine production, or the addition of a base in coca leaf chewing). I don't really see how adding acid in this stage could not be detrimental to the extraction.
wish someone could clear this up . SWIM thinks it is due to the acidic nature of coca alkaloids.

To be honest swim followed your procedure but while the drink tasted ok it had no numbing effect, much like coca tea, which is a sign of weak alkaloid presence, and swim felt no stimulation from it, as with most tea type drinks.
without using a base of sorts, swim finds that the only thing that works for him is long ( ie over one or two weeks minimum) maceration of leaves in wine.
the taste is modified upon drinking by adding hot wine sugar and spice, and is acceptable.

b
b

[Sloop]

Coca tea is good for your stomach, some say good for getting a very slight buzz and many say good for altitude sickness amongst other health orientated things. Swim never gets noticeable stimulation with coca tea, though it is a good healthy drink, and swim has spent a fair slice of swims time in the Andes cosuming coca leaf in a variety of forms and ways. This talk about a stimulating buzz like good coffee, well swim and the Andean people swim has lived with must be missing something. Are you adding something to the coca tea because swims understanding is without alkaline catalyst sold with the Coca leaf in the Andes there is little (if you are very sensitive) or no buzz.

Swim can chew a gob full (ie 60 coca leaves) without catalyst and there is no gum numbing, no stimulation just nourishment, but add a bit of catalyst (ie lejia) then we have action, the gums numb and the brain feels dam good
The Andean people dont chew coca with a alkaline catalyst for no reason. Swim thinks anything but extremely mild stimulation is all that is possible with coca tea, nothing near coffee (or dam you must be drinking some poor coffee), but empty that tea bag or better 3 or 4 in your gob with some sodium bicarbonnate and make a quid and keep it between your gums and cheek...well then we have some action after a few minutes.... then it is far better than any coffee

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Sloop

Coca tea is good for your stomach, some say good for getting a very slight buzz and many say good for altitude sickness amongst other health orientated things. Swim never gets noticeable stimulation with coca tea, though it is a good healthy drink, and swim has spent a fair slice of swims time in the Andes cosuming coca leaf in a variety of forms and ways. This talk about a stimulating buzz like good coffee, well swim and the Andean people swim has lived with must be missing something. Are you adding something to the coca tea because swims understanding is without alkaline catalyst sold with the Coca leaf in the Andes there is little (if you are very sensitive) or no buzz.

Swim can chew a gob full (ie 60 coca leaves) without catalyst and there is no gum numbing, no stimulation just nourishment, but add a bit of catalyst (ie lejia) then we have action, the gums numb and the brain feels dam good
The Andean people dont chew coca with a alkaline catalyst for no reason. Swim thinks anything but extremely mild stimulation is all that is possible with coca tea, nothing near coffee (or dam you must be drinking some poor coffee), but empty that tea bag or better 3 or 4 in your gob with some sodium bicarbonnate and make a quid and keep it between your gums and cheek...well then we have some action after a few minutes.... then it is far better than any coffee

this is absolutely true.
double post edited, sorry, see below.
SWIM adds that he drinks liters of coca tea daily ( with between 5 and 8 teabags per pot) and never has felt a coffee like "buzz" for the infusions, nor any problems sleeping from the tea.

on "chewing" coca, swim would like to note that teabags are actually much more effective than leaves, as leaves are very bulky, and a traditional quintu is actually very small. In shredded form you can easily fit 10gm in your mouth which is not respecting the traditional spirit of coca but also quite effective.

Swim can chew a gob full (ie 60 coca leaves) without catalyst and there is no gum numbing, no stimulation just nourishment, but add a bit of catalyst (ie lejia) then we have action, the gums numb and the brain feels dam good
The Andean people dont chew coca with a alkaline catalyst for no reason. Swim thinks anything but extremely mild stimulation is all that is possible with coca tea, nothing near coffee (or dam you must be drinking some poor coffee), but empty that tea bag or better 3 or 4 in your gob with some sodium bicarbonnate and make a quid and keep it between your gums and cheek...well then we have some action after a few minutes.... then it is far better than any coffee[/quote]

this is absolutely true. whatever coca alkaloids are extracted by a simple hot water infusion are for the most part decomposed by gastric fluids and never make it to the blood stream.
Adding a basifying agent ( quinoa ashes, sodium bicarb, limestone paste...) effectively extracts the alkaloids ( read a cocktail of up to 14 active alkaloids, which is why coca stimulation has little to do with cocaine, even though this particular alkaloid is one of the leave's most active- the others balance out the effects) which are absorbed by the mouth's mucous.
this stimulation is indeed very pleasant, you feel less fatigue, less physical pain if you were feeling any, your mood is lightened and feel more eager to work, which is why coca is such a helpful plant for physical labour or walking in the Andes. Coca stimulation doesn't make you feel jittery or in need for physical action as cocaine does, but allows you to work longer and better.
Concentration is also improved, though it's easy to feel the urge to complete quite a few tasks at once.
coca does have a slight comedown, which lasts about 30 minutes, when the stimulation is wearing off and you fell more tired and less peppy, but this quickly goes away as the effect on dopamine levels is nothing comparable to that of pure cocaine hcl
tea is good, full of nutriments and good for your stomach, but it doesn't compare to "chewed" coca or coffee.
Go for yerba mate for a caffeine kick without the jitters or sleeping problems, and save coca for chewing when needed.

[Benga]

swim found this on a commercial growing site he was browsing, hasn't tried, but the idea is interesting !

"Coca soft drink: a very refreshing and energizing drink.
Boil 1 liter of water an let it cool down to 90 celsius, use twice the amount of leaves as for coca tea ( ie 20 coca leaves), ad 1/4 gram of sodiumbicarbonate and 15 grams of honey. Store it one night in the refrigirator
Now you have your own Coca-Tea-ola."

who knows, could be a nice fizzy drink.
adding sodium bicarb was/is a common way of making fizzy lemonades and such

b

[Bajeda]

Just wondering, but how does the coca tea compare to normal tea when made into such?

[Benga]

swim finds it pretty similar actually, to green tea in effect. The taste is not that far away either, except that coca tea lacks the "fermented" smell of green tea ( the one that really stands out in "green tea" flavored cookies or ice-cream)
main differences being that the coca tea stimulation is more subtle ( no jolt from caffeine, that you can also get with green tea), closer to a diminishing of fatigue rather than stimulation, and maybe longer lasting. The best word to describe coca tea effects would probably "refreshing", but not as a temperature reference.
another thing, coca doesn't have the tension of caffeine, which has a tendency to constract muscles and give the jitters in high doses.

swim recently found out that coca tea can be drunk before bedtime without any consequences on swim's sleep. Tried this because it is actually served as an relaxant in some traditional medecine uses, and it does have this calming quality as well. so in the past weeks swim and swim's soulmate ( hello Napoleon) have been sipping a pot of 3/4 coca tea bags, a little ginseng and some herbal flowery tea after dinner. helps digestion, and tastes good.
The stimulation in swim's opinion is only felt in very concentrated extracts, especially alcoholic extracts, or through chewing.

b

[genaro]

To 0,150cL of boiling water add 3 tea bags (lipton or such) until the tea has infused into the water (dark brown).
Then add 0.050L of lemon juice to acidify the water (maybe a bit less so the tea won't taste too acid).
Then add 10g of dried coca leaves that have been crushed into a fine powder.
Allow to boil (low boil) for 5minutes, stirring continually, then remove from heat source.
Place the liquid in a sealed container for three days, shaking vigorously at least 3 times a day.
After 3days, filter through cofee filter (press/squeeze well to recover all the juice from the coca leaves powder)
Throw away the leaves powder and keep the liquid, place it in a small bottle and add 3 tablespoon of sugar to the mix (or more if you think the taste is too acid).
You can also add a little honney and ginger to perfume the mix.
Close the bottle, shake well so the sugar dissolves in the water and keep in the fridge until use.

This very delicious tea (best served very cold!) can be drunk calmly as a refreshment (a single individual can safely drink the whole bottle).
You'll be surprised how the coca, lemon and tea flavours mix altogether to give such a delightful drink!
At first it will produce a strong stimulation for 30-40min, then there's a period of calm (with some lack of energy).

enjoy!

[Benga]

this thread focuses on coca tea / mate de coca drinking, methods and effects

[noggin]

Hi
SWIM is about to order some Coca leaf tea (non de-alkaloided) and is just wondering what it tastes like? Is it disgusting?? SWIM doesn't want to use it for extreme stimulating effects, just the "refreshing" effect as detailed above, to help her fatigue-based illness.
SWIM is debating whether to buy a flavoured version - any comments welcom.
Thank you

[Benga]

it tastes a bit like low grade green-tea. quite good actually, if one likes green tea.
The better the leaf, the more pronounced the taste. effects of tea are very mild, but pretty good for attention and concentration

plain is better in the critter's opinion, and more value for money- one can always mix it with locally bought herbs rather than pay for a coca ecalyptus mix

b

[noggin]

Thank you Benga, just the advice I needed. I'll go for the straight version and add my own flavourings if needed. I must admit I don't much like green tea, but I'll probably be able to cope! Yup the attention and concentration is what I'm after, alleviation of brain fog. Hoping for some of the other positive side effects I've read about too (Of which I've read many - I was intrigued to read it helped flatuelence, not that I suffer with any such thing !!!).

I'll come back and report on my findings.

Cheers.

Oh, and hello and thanks for having me