Penn & Teller Bullshit! 12 step programs

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Penn & Teller doing what they do best, exposing bullshit.

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Penn & Teller Bullshit! 12 step programs
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The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Yup NA =cult.Swim heres their lies and propaganda all the time and can tell you without a doubt it is a cult.A very fucked up cult that tells you that you should completely cut off the simple and normal human desire just to feel good.That you should be addicted to living in shame and spend the rest of your life apologizing and spend everynight you could be having fun at some stupid little meeting.The world would be a better place if NA and AA was abolished from existing.

[bman1]

Swib does not believe in the 12 steps or AA. Swib does think they are good. For some people it may be the only way to help. Most its not. Any way to help stop that might work is ok as long as it is a personal choice. Swib does not think it would be fair to be forced to go.

Swib was once forced to go. Either face a prison term and parole, or inpatient rehab followed by a certain amount of out patient while living in a half way house. Swib hated it. It was not for swib. It made swib more depressed and want to use more. Swib still does not use what swib was addicted to and hopes swib never will. Swib understand swib has the choice to use or not. Swib is ok with out AA. Swibs is not out doing the same thing. Swib never harmed any one just got caught in an unlucky situation. Swib did have an opiate habit. Swib has not used opiates in 10 years. Swib has filled the void in swibs life with other activities. Swib has used other substances. None of which of physically addictive. And not to the extent of daily uses except thc

Swib also knows people who would not be alive for AA. It allowed them to find other people to hang out with that do not use. It allowed a place to talk about the problems. It allowed them something to fill the void quitting left in their life. But it works Granted there are many better things they could be filling that gap with but it works for them.


The AA swib went to was not as much follow your higher power but build power as a group and within yourself and help each other though the tougher times. It was the group AA that helped each other not a higher power. Yes a person can do it on there own but some people need some one to talk to.
AA is not for every one but what ever helps do it.

But also thinks it should not be forced on anyone. Since where swib went the ones forced there brought things in and made it harder for the people there by choice. In the end it should all be about personal choice.

[Solinari]

Heh, that was good. I like Penn and Teller, but i didn't know about those Bullshit programs they make so i will definitely look out for more of them.

[kinai]

Haha that was funny. I've been going to AA recently (total 4 meetings) - started cuz I had to (court ordered), but then decided that I was over the bar scene (or had at least been over doing it) and started going genuinely with a friend. I knew I wasn't ready to commit the the program but it seemed to help people make a better life so I figured I'd keep checkin it out to see if I really was an alcoholic or what not..

I am definitely not religious and don't see myself ever taking up the 12 step program. I consider myself a very open-minded person and don't knock AA at all but I def liked the Penn & Teller clip.

One thing I want to say tho is that they don't make you say "Hi I'm _______ and I'm an alcoholic". You don't have to say a word if you don't want to. They say the newcomers can introduce themselves if they want, but you aren't supposed to say you're an alcoholic unless you truly believe that you are one. And it's ok if you don't know if u are, u can still go.

Just wanted to put that out there from someone who feels pretty neutral on the subject.

[Solinari]

I hope this isn't over stepping my bound but there is another one that is good about drugs called Penn and Teller - Bullshit - War on Drugs [Available on youtube as I write - Dickon]

Both very good programs, in fact Penn & Teller - Bullshit! is now a great way to kill time for me, and i have only seen about 4 in total (since yesterday). It's funny, witty, brilliant and usually completely accurate.

[ai]

some of you are very close minded people. And this is coming from probably the strongest atheist on this forum in myself.

you hear it all the time; the 12 steps is not religous but spiritual. Bullshit for the most part. i give you that. and honestly, i had the same reserveations as each of you had when i went to my first meeting. Fuck these motherfuckers. i am not powerless. I can do this myself! i just need to know how.

But, somewhere along the line, someone said something that actually hit home; my thinking is hwat got me in this meeting, not being able to put down a crack pipe. So I said damnit, i'm going to make a real effort to try to make this work.

My sponser told me I didn't have to believe in god, but i had to be WILLING to believe a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity. you know.. I can do that. All that is saying is that accecpt the posibility that you very might be wrong about god. And i am not big enough to think i have all the answers.

And you know what. I'm 60 days in and I still dont' believe in god. Hell I still have religous debates with people after class, as I know the bible and I know christanity (we are in the bible belt).

I had to literarly rewrite the 12 steps in a way that would fit me.

My higher power is simply someone who has more power over this situtation than I do. That doesn't have to be god. it's not god. for me it's my sponser and the 50 or so recovering addicts I have in my phone.

In other words, I'm comfortable enough in my atheiem, i know my facts so well that going to 4-5 meetings a day if I want to listening to people talk about the glory of the lord, etc, blah blah blah, doesn't bother me one bit. I'm happy for them. whatever is keeping them clean.

And I can honestly say that beyond the drugs, people are starting to see a difference in me. I don't bullshit people anymore.

Reputation Comments on this post:

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[kinai]

Originally Posted by ai

In other words, I'm comfortable enough in my atheiem, i know my facts so well that going to 4-5 meetings a day if I want to listening to people talk about the glory of the lord, etc, blah blah blah, doesn't bother me one bit. I'm happy for them. whatever is keeping them clean.

Well put. I don't see why people are knocking a system that works for some people (even if the "5 percent, 5 percent" is right, who cares if Bobby Joe decides to go to meetings). Nobody is forcing them to commit to the 12 steps. Yea, the court makes you attend some meetings for DUIs and such. And yes, maybe it should be questioned bc of the religious overtones, but the people of AA, NA, etc. are very against pushing their program on people. They are there for those who choose it.. and don't in any way try to convert those who choose not to be there.

[chrisn]

Well you basically explained the reason why people knock it in your post...there would be absolutely nothing wrong with it if courts didn't mandate people to go to it.

[ai]

i get where you coming from. funny enough, If I were a laywer, i would file a lawsuit for not being given freedom to practice my religion or the freedom not to practice a religion; becuase i am forced to go to a program that tells me I have to believe in god.

with that said, the most important thing is being clean.


the reason the program works at 5% is not because it's really flawed, it's because people simply do not do the 4 things you have to do to stay clean. It NEVER fails. How it works says and I have seen it with my own eyes, thoose who fail are the ones who could not commit to the program fully. not going to a meeting 2 times a week and calling your sponser 4 days a week if that. not going to 7 meetings a week but not calling your sponser but twice.

if you read the big book, mediate (notice i didn't say pray), call your sponser and go to meetings, YOU WILL STAY CLEAN! IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE.

i get up at 5am and go to a meeting at 6:45 to 7:45 in the morning every morning. Because I work for myself if i ever have any other free time, i will catch another meeting. right now the most im portant thing to me is to remember that I am an addict first and foremost. I can't afford to pick back up. i don't want to know but there were times when I didn't want to use and I used so that's not an excuse.

and i will be totally honest. as an atheist, in the bible belt at AA/CA meetings, I get it from time to time. However I am not there to impress them; i am there to stay clean.

the program is not about getting into heaven or advoiding going to hell; it's about one thing and one thing only; staying clean and sober. if it offends you that I dont' believe in god than you have a problem, not me.