5-meo-DMT=MAO-inhibitor? 5-meo-DMT+SSRI=?

[rashaverak]

Hi,

I am preparing formy 1stencounter with 5-meo-dmt and need to get some clarification about whether 5-meo-dmt is actually a MAO-inhibitor or not??? Some info outhere make this link (e.g., the late D.M. Turner), but I am not sure if this is correct. If so, then nn-DMT should be orally active in combinations with 5-meo-DMT, should it not? However, the reason 5-meo is active as a snuff might be due to this property? The reason for my concern is that I am currently taking an SSRI-medication (cipralex) and I definitely wouldn't like to experience "serotonin-syndrome" in conjunction with the "implosion"-effect of 5-meo-dmt!!! So please, anyone with valid info on this subject, please inform me of what is and what is not correct regarding this matter...

[sunyata]

Many people claim that it is an MAO-inhibitor, but I haven't been able to find any scientific studies that prove this. If it is an MAOi it is probably a very weak one, like AMT. I've seen some positive trip-reports with the combination MDMA+5-meo-DMT. You can allways try asking Shulgin online, here http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/


Maybe try a low dose first, to see how you react to it.

[psykochamane]

5-MeO-DMT and MAOIs :
Although 5-MeO-DMT is present in some plants used in ayahuasca and in some ayahuasca brews, Erowid has received several reports of very troubling physical reactions in people who have ingested 5-MeO-DMT with MAOI harmala-alkaloids. There appears to be the risk of severe hypertensive symptoms, overheating, serotonin syndrome, etc. It is important to note that the profile of these risks are not fully understood, because the long history of use of brews containing some amount the two in combination.


so it's clear that 5 meo-dmt is no an mao inhibitor

[sunyata]

How is that clear?

[psykochamane]

well


because 5 meo dmt is only orrally active in combination with maoi's


so 5 meo dmt is not a maoi's


isn't it logical?

[sunyata]

No, you're wrong, 5-meo-DMT is active orally, just at higher dosages. Wether it is an MAOi is still uncertain. This was discussed otherwhere on the forum,

[psykochamane]

I look for 4 days a serious article who say that the5meo dmt is active orally and i can't find one.


but i find this from thikal, the continuation by alexander shulgin chapter :Hoasca vs. Ayahuasca p295
The search for plants to play the role of P. viridis(2nd component of ayahuasca or hoasca:ndlr)in hoasca has called for much more imagination. In principle, any plant that contains DMT could be used, to maintain the effect of the original hoasca. There are many botanic sources of this ubiquitous alkaloid, and some of these have been mentioned in the Chapter “DMT is Everywhere.” A wide variety of grasses, roots, bark and leaves have been explored. Another alkaloid that needs inhibition of its destruction is 5-MeO-DMT, which is also widely round in many natural sources. It, too, is not normally active orally. Recently, however, there has been a move to explore many other well known drugs as this second component, perhaps illogically in that all these are well established as being orally active. For this second part of ayahuasca, I have heard of trials with materials such as LSD, mescaline, mushrooms, datura, and even dextromethorphan. It is almost as if the P. harmala is being called upon to play a role of modifier or enhancer (or even to an extent, contributor) of activity, rather than one of being asimple revealer of activity. This brings up a vital question: If P. harmala can directly contribute to the action of another drug by some process other than that of potentiation or synergism, or by simply allowing this other drug to become orally active due to its presence, then it would have a pharmacological action in its own




and this other from jonathan ott : from http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html



Savinelli and Halpern state: "The mechanism of MAOI can be used to potentiate most classes of tryptamines as well as many other classes of drugs." Callaway has also made similar statements: "It is well known that B-Cs [B-carbolines] potentiate the activity of methylated tryptamines" (2) and "harmala alkaloids can facilitate and potentiate the psychoactivity of additional components [of ayahuasca] through enzyme inhibition.(3) Note the verb potentiate, meaning in pharmacology "to render more potent." The mechanism of the "ayahuasca effect" (facilitation of oral activity of DMT by inhibition of the enzyme monoamine oxidase), first proposed by Holmstedt and Lindgren in 1967,(4) has lately been verified by human psychonautic bioassays(5) and is now widely accepted. Although oral DMT in pharmahuasca is surely more active than taken neat (doses up to 1.0 g inactive in human subjects6), since the compound appears not to be orally active at all absent MAOI, it would be misleading to characterize this effect as potentiation. Moreover, the scant human pharmacological data we have on DMT suggests that the drug is less active orally in huascas than by other routes - intravenous or intramuscular injection, or inhaling the vaporized base.(5,6,7,8) A similar correspondence seems to hold for the orally-inactive 5-methoxy-DMT [O-methyl bufotenine or 5 meo dmt], orally-active when ingested in pharmahuasca, but weaker than via smoking or injection.(5) This is certainly not potentiation!


finally 5 meo dmt is not a maoi

[sunyata]

Excerpt from Ott

This generally holds for oral ingestion as well, with the provison that orally, DMT (at least up to a 1.0 g dose) requires activation by MAOI, whereas in sufficient dosage, both bufotenine and 5-MeO-DMT (Ott In press) are impressively active orally by themselves. Given our contemporary fixation on DMT and the so-called "ayahuasca effect," mayhap this will surprise many, but it oughtn't. With regard to oral activity, DMT is the exception, not the rule, among tryptamines. Of some 30 simple tryptamines reported to be psychoactive by Shulgin and Shulgin (1997), 28 were active orally (correcting for bufotenine and 5-MeO-DMT), and the only other exception simply had not been tried orally.

Excerpt from Legal Highs,

The most commonly used MAO inhibitors include hydrazines such as iproniazid, Marsilid, Marplan, Niamid, Nardil, Catron; also non-hydrazines such as propargylamines, cyclopropylamines, aminopyrazine derivatives, indolealkylamines, and carbolines. MAO-inhibiting materials discussed in this book include yohimbine, various tryptamines, especially 5-MeO-DMT and the methyltryptamines, and the various harmala alkaloids. The latter are especially potent inhibitors but, like yohimbine and the trytamines, are short)lasting in action (30 minutes to several hours). Some of the commercial MAO inhibitors listed above are effective for several days to several weeks.

But you are right, after reading twenty pages that claim 5-meo-dmt is inactive without MAOi and then finding one that says it is active, you get confused. I'm unable to find out where, but I distinctly remember reading aninterview with Shulgin where he said that 5-meo was active orally, and that he had relied on hearsay when stating it was unactive in TIHKAL. But I've also read some posts on this forum where people said that it's been active w/out MAOi.

I am not saying that5-meo is an MAOi, I am just saying therehave been speculations about it, and I have yet to read conclusive evidence stating that it's not. As for being active orally, I've readtoo many reports of people tripping on it without MAOi, and I don't thinkall those people were lying. Ithink I'll just order some and try it myself.

[psykochamane]

It's true.


But to have a significant result you have to make it under medical control. Or at least, be sure that mao is present and in normal number, you have to eat it in a capsule without any contact with the language and the cheeks. Plainly establish a protocol.
In any cases, like we informed.