Combinations - Potentiating Benzodiazepines

[H3AD_TR1P]

was gonna say add a norco or oxy to the valium & you'll be fine.
but it sounds like your dalek is looking for something non-prescription, right?
well.... i would start with a glass of your dalek's favorite wine!

errr mabey kava kava, kratom (actually it might be speedy in incorrect doses), half of benedryl w/ the valium?

[Razorbladekiss]

Originally Posted by H3AD_TR1P

was gonna say add a norco or oxy to the valium & you'll be fine.
but it sounds like your dalek is looking for something non-prescription, right?
well.... i would start with a glass of your dalek's favorite wine!

errr mabey kava kava, kratom (actually it might be speedy in incorrect doses), half of benedryl w/ the valium?

My Dalek would love something perscribed but his doctor plays things by the book (dont they all!). So OTC will have to do .

My Dalek would love to try kava kava but being in the UK last he heard it was illegal! So thats blown. Although the benedryl / Diphenhydramine based products may do well. Theoputic dosage or Recreational? Wouldnt want them to knock my dalek out. Just make him forget his anxiety

[Felix Guattari]

RBK: I believe you are mistaken as regards kava's legal status in the UK. AFAIK, the only nations with explicit bans are France and Canada. So SWiY shouldn't have problems obtaining it. SWiM far prefers it to benzos for many reasons, not least among which are its somewhat stimulating nature and its lack of addictive potential.

Kratom is great, but I'm sure you're familiar with its somewhat addictive nature.

SWiM uses or has used kratom, kava and benzos for various purposes for quite a while and hasn't had too much trouble with addiction as long as he cycles/changes combinations fairly frequently as not to fall into an addictive pattern. Kava is the substance he finds the most useful of the three though.

I wouldn't recommend diphenhydramine as an anxiolytic unless it were the only thing to which you had access. 'Recreational' doses thereof are definitely not anything that could be called anxiolytic. In fact, there's a fairly substantial population for which they are dysphoric in effect.

Hope this helps.

[Razorbladekiss]

Hhmm a quick search on google didnt get my dalek far in his search for kava kava in the UK. Nor did he find promising results for Kratom, of course discussion on obtaining such items is prohibited my dalek says he'll continue to look! And thanks you both for your opinions so far.

Hes hoping as a final last resort he'll take what valium he has a fair amount of valerian root and maybe a diphenhydramine or 2, to do the trick. Again if any one else wants to comment by all means lets hear it cheers all.

[PsychoActivist]

Kava is definitely a good one if it can be obtained. Valerian Root has anxiolytic properties as well.

Also, your dalek may want to look into GABA supplements. This is how Benzo's, alcohol, and some other drugs work - by stimulating GABA receptors. The supplements are usually sold in herb and vitamin stores - primarily for anxiety and stress relief. Here's the Wiki link to GABA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-aminobutyric_acid

Hope this helps.
Good luck.

[Felix Guattari]

Speaking of GABA supplements, picamilone and phenibut are both forms of GABA which cross the blood-brain barrier much more easily than normal forms thereof.

[Laudaphun]

with little or no tolerance to benzos, 30mg diazepam should be plenty to get one through a day or two. With no tolerance, depending on the person, 5mg maybe work for quite a while. 10mg dosage unit for diazepam is the highest SWIM knows of and given its long duration of action, an individual with little to no tolerance should need x3 10mg doses throughout the day, if even that. Its probably a little too late too do much else. In the U.S. many herbals can be gotten OTC such as kava, valerian, etc but swim has had little luck with them.

[Boca Bitch]

The best "concoction" to minimize anxiety is quite simply three or four shots of vodka. XD

It's all about the neurological reactions that drugs induce. Benzos are prescribed for anti-anxiety, simply because they allow better focus and motor-coordination.

Alcohol is a dual-action sedative, working on two neurotransmitters: by increasing GABA, the body's most abundant natural depressant, and decreasing levels of glutamate, the body's most abundant natural depressant.
Benzodiazepines are also sedatives, but only work by increasing levels of GABA.

This would make alcohol a more effective "anti-anxiety" remedy.

[Laudaphun]

Originally Posted by Boca Bitch

The best "concoction" to minimize anxiety is quite simply three or four shots of vodka. XD

It's all about the neurological reactions that drugs induce. Benzos are prescribed for anti-anxiety, simply because they allow better focus and motor-coordination.

Alcohol is a dual-action sedative, working on two neurotransmitters: by increasing GABA, the body's most abundant natural depressant, and decreasing levels of glutamate, the body's most abundant natural depressant.
Benzodiazepines are also sedatives, but only work by increasing levels of GABA.

This would make alcohol a more effective "anti-anxiety" remedy.

I would say this is true, perhaps for some people... Personally SWIM prefers a benzo for social anxiety as EtOH causes too often "Oh man, I feel like such an idiot" the next day. Not necessarily talking about making a fool of one self, but rather just the fact that alcohol is more likely to cause behavior/talking that SWIM would otherwise not let happen. With the correct benzo dosage (the correct benzo even for that matter), SWIM can feel just like herself and talk to people and engage in normal social activity without anyone suspecting she is "on something" or whatever. Alprazolam for example, at the correct dosage dose not have any sedative effects, allows her to remain just as sharp as she would be normally, and allows her to engage in conversatoins that she otherwise wouldn't and the next day she looks back and is really happy that she had that conversation, whereas alcohol causes more conversations that she regrets. Actually, she would use alprazolam more often if not for the slight amnesiia she still gets and the fact that she is more often than not in the academic setting. If SWIM is going to be around people she uses benzos typically (school is different, where if absolutely necessary clonazepam is used due to it's lack of impact on mental clarity... alprazolam is used if anxiety is preventing her from even entering a situation but that's a last resort), if she is by herself and in need of stress/anxiety releive, she mixxes up a drink.

Keep in mind this is solely SWIM's body, preference, and her specific reaction to these chemicals and others may find this not to be the case... for example, many find alprazolam sedating... it is actually probably the least sedating benzo SWIM has used (for HER, again that may not hold true for others).

[Gradient]

Boca Bitch: A little clarification, though I believe you correctly understand the 'dual action' - Glutamate is not the brain's primary inhibitory neurotransmitter, GABA is. Glutamate is the primary excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain. Etoh allosterically antagonizes NMDA receptors, changing the way they bind glutamate NTs. So one experiences sedation by dual mechanisms: agonization of inhibitory GABA, and antagonization of excitatory glutamate.

Razorbladekiss,

I am not a doctor, but have you considered looking into the nootropic, phenibut? A potential mechanism to alleviate stress may be to stagger usage of kava kava, kratom, and phenibut - so as not to become dependent on any one. Each have anxiolytic properties, though have subtle differences. Here's a quick run-through:

Kava kava: so far as I know, there are 5 primary active components of kava kava - yangonin, desmethoxyyangonin methysticin, kawain, dihydromethysticin, and dihydrokawain. Kawain acts to inhibit calcium and sodium ion channels, which would cause an overal inhibition of neural activity by dual mechanisms. The last two have been theorized to agonize GABAa, the brains principle inhibitory neurotransmitter.

Kratom: It has been theorized that the active alkaloids in kratom bind the mu-opoid receptor at a site distinct from morphine, therefore accounting for their differences in affects. Definitely addictive, but certainly pleasant and anxiolytic. There's some variability in terms of the kinds of kratom one may come by - I'm no expert on this.

Phenibut: This primarily hits GABAb (mostly peripheral nervous system, but central too), but also hits GABAa as well to a lesser extent. Additionally, it has been found to stimulate dopamine activity as well as inhibit phenethylamine (experienced as anxiogenic in some individuals) activity. It is characterized by a long duration, however, so swim would tend to utilize this one on evenings with no obligations on the following early morning.

Each one of these has addictive potential, so again, swim would recommend staggered use of these to help alleviate stress. Again, I am not a doctor - but if you'd like any clarification on the subject, feel free to pm me.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good clarifications..

[Razorbladekiss]

Cheers for the explaination Gradient, My Dalek will defently look into those a little more, My dalek isnt sure of the legal status (in the UK) on those mentioned above unless my Dalek has been looking in the wrong places hes still not sure.

Just to reply to Laudaphuns 2nd last post. 30mg would get swiy through the day? My Dalek wishes he was you! The last he took diazepam he took about 45mg with no tolerance and the effects only lasted 4 hours. But yeah 4 hours is a nice time frame for one night!

Thanks for everyones input (y)

[Laudaphun]

Originally Posted by Razorbladekiss

Just to reply to Laudaphuns 2nd last post. 30mg would get swiy through the day? My Dalek wishes he was you! The last he took diazepam he took about 45mg with no tolerance and the effects only lasted 4 hours. But yeah 4 hours is a nice time frame for one night!

Thanks for everyones input (y)

SWIM was not suggesting what would get her through the day, but merely suggesting what "might" suffice for someone who rarely took benzos and was just trying to kill anxiety. Her marmoset certainly does understand the anxiety associated with holidays. Social anxiety is a little more common than physicians realize SWIM thinks. Unrecognized and untreated social anxiety could easily cause one to become a substance abuser or worse <add dash of sarcasim and a dash of humor here>. Oddly, SWIM recalls situations that caused excessive social anxiety allowed very large dosages of alprazolam with little or no feeling of intoxication. The body can respond rather strangely in particular situations.

They are prescription, but hydroxyzine as mentioned by the previous poster seems to have some potential, along with propranolol which is a beta blocker used by actors and other performers for stagefright. I believe that is an off-label use. It is fairly well known, at least among the older crowd.

45mg diazepam surely could knock someone not accustomed to benzos for a loop, but could easily be tolerated by someone who was familiar with benzo effects. SWIM rarely sees diazepam prescribed where she lives. Typically even doctors who prefer olders meds use clonazepam in it's place.

SWIM would not suggest anyone who rarely used benzos and was looking to strictly kill anxiety and be functional at a family holiday to take this dose, hence the suggestion of a dosage a dr. might prescribe.

[phatassone]

Hydroxyzine (anti-histamine) is a good alternative to benzos as an anxiolitic, its non-abusable and not very addictive, maybe SWIYS doctor would prescribe this

[Juko]

Ok. Sounds like a RBK is trying to potentiate. Grab some OTC tagamet (cimetidine) and some diphenhydramine. take about 25mg to 50 mg of diph, and one cimetidine.

cimetidine prevents a certain enzyme responsible for breaking down most benzos and opiates.

This causes swiy's blood concentration to be higher for a longer period time.

if you use a rapid absorption method. (sublingual or anal) you will peak even higher.

the diphenhydramine as slight muscle relaxant effects, and sedative effects.

swim did both with a bar and blacked out like i took too alprazolam bars.

good luck!

[phatassone]

anti-histamines such as diphenhydramine or promethazine, can be quite pleasant with valium, if you have no tolerance go for 5mg valium 50mg promethazine or 25mg diphen and a couple of beers and swiy should be feeling pretty fonky, just watch out not to do too much alchohol with benzos as they are a dangerous combo... but safe in the doses i mentioned.

[claroscura]

buspirone is otc for anxiety. also, alcohol works on the same receptors in your brain as benzodiazepines (such as valium) and would aid in central nervous system depression (which is exactly what a person with too much anxiety is looking to achieve). the main disadvantage to alcohol is usually that its effects don't last as long. obviously, only mix with benzos in small amounts until you get a feel for your own tolerance.

[PsychoActivist]

One thing SWIPA is surprised that no one has mentioned yet it GABA supplements which can be bought at most healthfood and dietary supplement stores. Since Benzos realease GABA anyway, it could be assumed this could be a great potentiator.

However, SWIPA does not have much time right now to look up any resources on this so please do not take this post the wrong way. He is not saying there is any proof in this whatsoever, so he is not claiming that this would or would not work. He does remember reading a report on it in which suggested a conclusion to where it was confirmed. Cannot find the link right this second. He will post back here when he has more time. Just throwing out the idea here.

Can anyone help confirm or debunk this?

Also, as someone else mentioned Kava, This is known to work on the GABA receptors as well, so I would imagine it could be a potentiator too.

[Milk man]

Originally Posted by PsychoActivist

One thing SWIPA is surprised that no one has mentioned yet it GABA supplements which can be bought at most healthfood and dietary supplement stores. Since Benzos realease GABA anyway, it could be assumed this could be a great potentiator.

However, SWIPA does not have much time right now to look up any resources on this so please do not take this post the wrong way. He is not saying there is any proof in this whatsoever, so he is not claiming that this would or would not work. He does remember reading a report on it in which suggested a conclusion to where it was confirmed. Cannot find the link right this second. He will post back here when he has more time. Just throwing out the idea here.

Can anyone help confirm or debunk this?

Also, as someone else mentioned Kava, This is known to work on the GABA receptors as well, so I would imagine it could be a potentiator too.

GABA does not cross the BBB so swim really doubts it would have much effect on benzo's.

[Herbal Healer 019]

chamomile tea seems to potentiate benzodiazapines, but makes for a verrrry sedating experience some1 once told me.

chamomile has a GABA receptor affinity as do benzodiazapines, so it makes sense..

[Milk man]

Originally Posted by Herbal Healer 019

chamomile tea seems to potentiate benzodiazapines, but makes for a verrrry sedating experience some1 once told me.

chamomile has a GABA receptor affinity as do benzodiazapines, so it makes sense..

Swim has a guess that phenibut and valerian root will have the same effect?

[Herbal Healer 019]

SWAM has never tried phenibut & has never tried valerian (which is pleasant with opiates or even on its own) with benzodiazapines, but SWAM would imagine they'd go well together although the sedation might be overwhelming with chamomile, phenibut, & or valerian in combination with benzos...

[Stimulants]

Various journals suggest that grapefruit juice can potentiate.

From SWIMs finding through research, triazolam, diazepam are significantly potentiated, cloanazepam slightly, alprazolam(Xanax), almost none.

[Boca Bitch]

I was recently prescribed 0.25mgs. Xanax.. this dosage, however is hardly enough to take the edge of during a panic attack.

I'm planning to make an appointment with my psychiatrist asap to discuss the situation. But how do I make it sound like I genuinely need a higher dose (which I do) without him suspecting ulterior recreational motives.

In the mean time.. is there a way to potentate it other than combining with alcohol. I've heard grapefruit juice can increase blood concentrations of the medication.. .but of how much more?.. alprazolam has a bioavailability of 80-100% when consumed orally.

Would sublingual administration make a difference? Other than speeding up the time it takes to reach the brain...

[Stimulants]

Originally Posted by Boca Bitch

I've heard grapefruit juice can increase blood concentrations of the medication.. .but of how much more?.. alprazolam has a bioavailability of 80-100% when consumed orally.

\
Research shows alprazolam is not affected by grapefruit juice.

Would sublingual administration make a difference? Other than speeding up the time it takes to reach the brain...

SWIM is not sure, but it sure would be a BITTER tasting experience.

[bosch man]

Can you not just take 2 of the 0.25's?