Health - can meth be used responsibly?

[givemeliberty]

I know a guy who has used crank off and on (more on than off) since 1974. Lately, due to improvements in his supply line, he has done it every single day. He has been a productive member of society (who gives a rat's behind about society), self sufficient and has been a small business (legit) owner for three years. He doesn't live under a bridge or in the woods behind a mall. To look at him, one would never suspect him of being a long time user of methamphetamines. So I would have to say,yes, it is possible to use it responsibly. Drug use is not always drug abuse.

[raven3davis]

I heard this from a very knowledgeable person in the field. He said that Japan used methamphetamine to give their citizens energy to reconstruct the country after WWII. Meth was used for ten years and there were no documented cases of violence related to the use of the drug and when meth was not used anymore, addiction was almost unheard of. Doesn't sound like meth does it? The point being is, yes, it can be used responsibly. The social context in which the drug is used has a lot to do with it. Meth is used "responsibly" by many people who would never touch a street drug. Its called desoxyn.

The route of administration is something to keep in mind. Snorting, smoking, and injecting are probably going to be more over the top than simply taking it orally. IMO these methods of administration make the drug more potent and addictive.

Anything can be used responsibly but SWIM thinks it is much harder to abuse something responsibly.

[SmokingBowls420]

If it isn't perscribed to swiy and the dose is so low swiy don't feel it.....no, absolutely not....Meth can never EVER be used responsibly for recreation....Swiy may do it once a month, or once every 2....it WILL, it's not a question of if, but WHEN Swiy will break their routine and smoke more, and more, and more, and more, then Swiy looks in the mirror and all he sees is the face of death, and more and more and swiy either has a heart attack, stroke, or siezure, and more and more until death from malnutrition, dehydration, brain damage, or heart complications.

Swim has been clean for 5 months, but if swim had a job right now, he'd smoke that shit and throw his life away. 100 percent chance. Swim HATES this shit, but he misses it like a runaway bride, hence, swims obsession of reading this forum lol!

A quote from Jermsticc- First Love....this song puts meth into perspective...
"It's that love/hate I see no escape, death will be my awnser this life is my fate"

[c17h21no4]

well , i'd like to start with a note , it seems to me that most of the people that "end up badly" while doing meth or any amphetamine ar smoking cannabis too or do psychedelics.
i know someone who is a hardcore tweaker , i mean he shoots 500mg and he's ok , i mean you can't even notice. even after 30secs or 1 min after he shoots it you can talk to him or ask him about school stuff or anything , he is always sure to take vitamins , calcium and CNS antioxidants , stuff like that. but i also know a lot of guys that smoke weed regularly and they always have bad comedowns from meth , and loose their control even with small dosages , taken orally , i think it's because cannabis makes you irresponsible.
so i thnik you can tweak and be responsible but you have to give up stuff like weed and "mind-altering" drugs , i find that for pure fun there's nothing like the meth euphoria and if you wanna chill-out meth + xanax is blissfull , euphoria + total relaxation.

[tweakerman]

Originally Posted by stealthninjax

it was pretty much a life saver for swim... his depression and avoidant symptom dissapear completely. he feels like theres nothing he can't do is is ready to take on the world like you're at your best.

Since you have said it works better than your prescribed medicines, your depression disappeared, Swim would say that you should never do meth again. Reason being is that it makes you feel so good that you will become addicted to that feeling. The more you use meth, even casually, the higher your risk of becoming addicted.

"The addiction rate for meth is staggering. It is estimated that 40 to 45 percent of first-time users become addicted to the drug. For those not addicted the first time, 80 to 85 percent of those trying the drug a second time become addicted."
http://www.lycos.com/info/meth.html

If you did not become addicted on the first try consider yourself lucky and stay away from using it again. The second time you use you probably won't be so lucky.

Addiction to meth can be ugly, here's some of what you may experience when you are addicted to meth:

"Meth is addictive, and users can develop a tolerance quickly, needing larger amounts to get high. In some cases, users forego food and sleep and take more meth every few hours for days, 'binging' until they run out of the drug or become too disorganized to continue. Chronic use can cause paranoia, hallucinations, repetitive behavior (such as compuslively cleaning, grooming or disasembling and assembling objects), and delusions of parasites or insects crawling under the skin. Users can obsessively scratch their skin to get rid of these imagined insects. Long-term use, high dosages, or both can bring on full-blown toxic psychosis (often exhibited as violent, aggressive behavior). This violent, aggressive behavior is usually coupled with extreme paranoia. Meth can also cause strokes and death."
http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/Drug_...ethamphetamine

[c17h21no4]

a good thing is to avoid to binge ... tolerance can get sky high.
i read on erowid or wiki that a binge will make your tolerance grow by 100% per day ... no wonder swim had problems sometimes getting high <

[Politicalchalk]

well , i'd like to start with a note , it seems to me that most of the people that "end up badly" while doing meth or any amphetamine ar smoking cannabis too or do psychedelics.
i know someone who is a hardcore tweaker , i mean he shoots 500mg and he's ok , i mean you can't even notice. even after 30secs or 1 min after he shoots it you can talk to him or ask him about school stuff or anything , he is always sure to take vitamins , calcium and CNS antioxidants , stuff like that. but i also know a lot of guys that smoke weed regularly and they always have bad comedowns from meth , and loose their control even with small dosages , taken orally , i think it's because cannabis makes you irresponsible.
so i thnik you can tweak and be responsible but you have to give up stuff like weed and "mind-altering" drugs , i find that for pure fun there's nothing like the meth euphoria and if you wanna chill-out meth + xanax is blissfull , euphoria + total relaxation.

Just want to point out that cannabis use does NOT "cause" irresponsibility. There may exist some people who are more irresponsible when they smoke it, but they were irresponsible than in the first place anyways.

Also, Xanax (alprazolam) is a mind-altering drug. Methamphetamine is essentially the definition of a mind-altering drug. So, in the most polite terms possible, don't kid yourself. A drug is a drug is a drug.

Finally, a historical note: I think the question of "Can meth be used responsibly?" should take a look at a famous patient of a man named Dr. Morell. He would arrive daily to give injections of "vitamins" to his high-profile patient, which mostly consisted of methamphetamine, opiates, and other notorious drugs. Later that day, the very same patient goes on to kill 6 million jews. So, in terms of meth and ethics, this is always what comes to swim's mind.

[cyndi]

Swim thinks it depends on the person. In her case no, if she gets a small amount to be "responsible" she is getting a lot when it runs out which is very quickly, and so the cycle goes on and on until she has wrecked her life. This is one drug swim just can't mess with personally.

[Aminator]

I would not trust the lycos link one bit. The same paragraph claims bullshit like: "The drug itself is so toxic that it cannot be processed by the kidneys and eventually will try to work itself out of the body through the skin, creating sores." I think that says it all.

On the percentages, apart from the fact that they add up to "Only one in 15 who tries it twice does not get hooked" (extremely unlikely), the problem is in asking how many did or did not get hooked after trying it X times:

Nobody who tried it only once ever got addicted. Why? Because they took it only *once*, obviously. The others did it again (and again....).
It makes about as much sense as "81% of heroin addicts smoked weed before they started using heroin." This does NOT mean 81% of weed smokers end up on smack. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of coce addicts drank Coca Cola before starting to snort cocaine. Yeah, and 100% of teenage prostitutes had underage sex.

Great logic! Exactly the information the sheeple want to read.
(sorry for the rant - I hate statistics I could not manipulate myself)

[givemeliberty]

Originally Posted by Aminator

Nobody who tried it only once ever got addicted. Why? Because they took it only *once*, obviously. The others did it again (and again....).

Right on! I'm still laughing over that one! The stupidity of that particular logic totally escaped me. Thanks for picking up on that one.
It's not just the stupidity of all the sheep eating up the DEA scare tactics that bothers me. It's the outright, flagrant violation of the Constitution that scares me.
If I want to get high, do meth or sit in the damn corner slobbering, drooling and slowly killing myself with heroine, it is nobody's business but my own. Leave me the fuck alone! Who in God's name gave those bastards the right to legislate morality? So what if I'm an idiot. I have a Constitutional right to be an idiot. As long as I don't hurt anyone else or violate your Constituional rights, fuck off!
People are so busy being scared and tsk tsking over the "horrible drug epidemic" they are not seeing that the Bill of Rights is slowly being pulled right out from underneath them. How stupid can you get?
It's called "slight of hand". Keep your attention over here while they pull a rabbit out of your ass and you say "Wow! Where did that come from?"

You really want to get mad? Read this guys stuff. He might be a crackpot, I don't know but you cannot deny the truth in what he has to say.
http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/

[cyndi]

Really swim thinks it is about preference. For example, swim could do coke and not get hooked at all. She doesn't care that much for it. Speed is just swim's doc and she gets out of control on it. No doubt meth is not good for anyone. However, it never stopped swim. Swim actually knows a lot of people that tried meth a time or two and didn't get hooked. Also some people have addictive personalities and some don't. Swim thinks that has a lot to do with it too.

[Politicalchalk]

If you are able to stream media with some degree of awesomeness, check out the FRONTLINE page on pbs.org. THere's a HUGE meth..."epidemic" in Oregon, and they do a pretty good story on it. Plus, PBS rocks my world.

Ever hear of a trucker bomb? Truckers take meth t o stay up for delivery of their cargo....pissing in empty bottles and tossin' off the Interstate. of course, there's trace amounts of unprocessed methamphetamine in the urine....so, in Oregon, there's actually people wandering the interstate in hopes of finding enough methylated urine (...sorry, couldn't resist!) to take home, cook up or down or whatever, and try and produce a yield. THey're still doing it, so I guess it works.

But God Damn.

[Lobsang]

Ever hear of a trucker bomb? Truckers take meth t o stay up for delivery of their cargo....pissing in empty bottles and tossin' off the Interstate. of course, there's trace amounts of unprocessed methamphetamine in the urine....so, in Oregon, there's actually people wandering the interstate in hopes of finding enough methylated urine (...sorry, couldn't resist!) to take home, cook up or down or whatever, and try and produce a yield. THey're still doing it, so I guess it works.

Well meth addicts are not known to act rationally and perhaps someone in a state of dellusion did this. But I seriously doubt it is a ritual. And I seriously doubt the people the did it got high.

[Donmeka]

in small doses for SWIM ir is an amazing cure for his adhd, usually when asked o clean the shit out of his oroom o r bathroom or scrub the pool. he would be SO Fn lethargic it would b hours and his father would beg/bitch at him for hours and if it werent for that ebing annoying SWIM would probly nver do it. SWIM smoked a very small amount and insufflated a skinny tiny line and SWIM felt as he did when he waas taking desoxyn which atm he cannot afford due to no insurance for the time being, lucky for SWIM he can still get addderall cheap again gfrom b4 desoxyn being administered.

but back to the point. I believe meth CAN be used responsibly but there are many checmical cards on the table u must take into consideration and the hardest on the human spirit and the fact that EVERY SINGLE PERSON is different though some effects cross boundaries (like of course not JUST black ppl luv fried chicken i do too man!)

he had a good high goign from around 4pmish to 10 where he took 4mg of his xanax RX. SWIMs 2nd experience 1st real high and thats what SWIM thinks.

SWIM relapsed on heroin again today so SWIM will be getting a dime bag of the same ice which SWIM recieves double the amount because of mutual good friends so SWIM will make it last quite a while just to herlp withdrawls. SWIM has seen ti done many times aby fa friend. as long as SWIM eats and takes the proper precautions and responsibility he should be fine.

YES METH CAN BE USED RESPONSIBLY!

ill take that back when im in rehab or prison which both aint happening aaaany time soon *knock on wood* lol

[ChicagoPrepBoy]

meth is used responsibly. it's called desoxyn. run to your nearest psychiatrist, girls.

[Politicalchalk]

Just because something is available by a doctor's note (RX) doesn't mean it's used responsibly. In fact, among all CII drugs, Swim imagines Desoxyn to be at or near the top of the list of abused medication. Ever read the scarry black-box warning in the PDR -- "METHAMPHETAMINES HAVE A HIGH POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE" and such and such.

PS, lobsang, thanks for the great picture!

[ketaminesx69]

the topic is can meth be used responisibly...... ok, so wats responsibly, taking drugs isnt responsible because, well its illegal. so that answers the question. aside from that resposibly could also be interperated as, only on occasion, socially, only on w.e, or trying once or twice and not continuing. swim thinks that responsibly is on occasion and socially. swim has been successful at this, it is all in the head, nuthing more nuthing less. if you want to be responsible dont do any drugs, if you want to be a little less responsible, then only do it socially. simple. remember, addiction is a mind set.

[stoneinfocus]

Why does one use meth? -this is the main criteria for a "resposible" use.

Okay, let's see;

1. To improve one's situation, to feel better, for health reasons, etc.

-smart thing, Nothing wrong with that.

Why does one get miserable on it?

2. We needed to go into details here, keeping things as simple as possible, without oversimplifying;

-he feels an improvement on meth, but if the underlying cause isn't addressed well enough by the drug meth, meth still being the best choice to "use", it gets ugly.

The nature of amphetamines are; they make you feel better, nearly everytime they're being taken, but they take a toll, which could be easily counteracted*, by e.g. anabolic steroids, insuline or growth-hormones, or a "responsible" use, moderate dosing, no binges (= the problems are always well addressed and handled by a certain drug and dose and the drug is helping to make a live work, which was the reaon why the drug was being taken)

Once the problems, resluting from the use of amphetamines and the underlying causes for those problems were addressed better, by, i.e. not only amphetamines, but other drugs, too, there'd be no abuse, but responsible use, which fit the demands of the user and the nature and effects of the drugs being in use.

But therefore, one had to have access and information about/to other drugs, which might be the solvation of either the sides of the use, or addresses both, the reason why amphetamines are being taken and the sides of amphetamine use.

From the top of my head, I think about 20-30% of amphetamine-users develop a problematic use, but in my experience, they're also fed-up about their use, or adapted to be not concerned; to give a shit about everything; their problematic use and their appearence or health-implications and social status (socio-psychological reasons, desparation and lack of alternatives, which is nearly all the same.)

My point is, swim knows, e.g *meth is protein-sparing and releases energy from fat-deposits, which, in turn leads to a major up-regulation of insulin receptor = increasing sensitivity to insuline. Insuline is the most anabolic natural hormone, meth is catabolic, in the long run. So, according to the nature of things, it would be a good thing to admister an anbolic agent. Because it fits so well to this issue, one will find, that anabolics increase dopamine permanently and the dopamine-releasing effects of any amphetamine-like drug. So one really does address both issues with this strategy -less meth needed, or none at all, because anabolics could do the job as well, no hang-overs, no depressions, body-restauration, alternating drug regimes, counteracting the long term sides of any drug in use.

Unfortunately, recreational drug-users only think from amphetamines, to cannabis and that's where their horizont ends, while the solution lies somewhere else.

Unfortunately, academics and so-called experts are thinking just as far and don't respond to real live experiences of users adn tried and true approaches.

I think responsible use was BS, one should be able to try out and use whatever drug, and these, as good as possible and address any issues resulting from the use, as good as possible and find alternatives, according to the nature of the needs of the users and the drugs in use. -or if it ain't broken, don't fix it.It's that simple I think.

That would mean, we'd need not a more restrictive drug-policy, but a broader and more liberal, inexpensive drug-arsenal, which were free for anybody to use in an informed way and a culture of information and self-education and a culutre that sensitivizes the people to the nature of their own bodies and minds and respects scientific facts and is able to relativie empirism to the honest, working approach of the users themselves.

We needed experts, giving unbiased information about the drugs of choice, only, and making propositions about alternatives and adverstising their use, as a pragmatic solution to eventually very problematic and damaging use of drugs in certain people. (very capitalistic approach, but capitalism is best in sorting the shit out, concerning efficiancy and meeting expectations, so why couldn't this be used in a not-only- profit-way concerning money and win-maximation with the lest effort and the most profit for the companies' managers, but in the most efficient way for the living of the people and saving the money, where it's lacking in peoples' lives?)

[givemeliberty]

Originally Posted by stoneinfocus

Why does one use meth? -this is the main criteria for a "resposible" use.


I think respoible use is BS, one should be able use whatever drug, and that one, as good as possible and address any issues resulting from the use, as good as possible and find alternatives according to the nature of the needs of the users and the drug in use. It's that simple I think.

That would mean, we'd need not a more restrictive drug-policy, but a broader and more liberal, inexpensive drug-arsenal, which were free for anybody to use and a culture of information and self-education and a culutre that sensitivizes the people to the nature of their own bodies and minds.

We needed experts, giving unbiased information about the drugs of choice, only, and making propositions about alternatives and adverstising their use, as a pragmatic solution to eventually very problematic and damaging use of drugs in certain people. (very capitalistic approach, but capitalsim is best in sorting the shit out, concerning efficiancy and meeting expectations, so why couldn't this be used in a not-only- profit-way concerning money and win-maximation with the lest effort and the most profit for the companies' managers?)

I am a low energy person in my natural state. If someone said that if I stayed in my bed, an asteroid was going to hit me and kill me, I better move. I would want to sleep on it.
Meth motivates me. Meth makes me not only creative but able to implement my creativity. Meth helps me get things done.
The flip side of that is I am also an addictive personality and I have in the past let meth take over my life and fuck up relationships and jobs.
It is difficult for me to maintain discipline over my meth use. Economics isn't enough though I have never resorted to crime to finance my habit (unless you count making it).
I have two very good friends who have helped me. One of them is a very wise, ancient soul who can and will shame me into putting the brakes on. The other one was once the most feared street fighter and a city south of me. He will beat the shit out of me if he sees me going out of control.
I don't lie to them or try to hide my use.
I'm a pretty old guy (57) and I've been messing with this shit since 1974.
Left to my own devices, it is possible I could get seriously out of control.

Before I die, I would dearly love to get into a discussion with warmonger Bush ( a man I once loved), Satan's Pride Cheyney and any number of FISA judges and DEA attorneys.
What or who the fuck gave them the right to tell me what I can or cannot put into my body? It's bad for me? Do I LOOK stupid??? I know it's bad for me. So is bacon but I haven't seen any pork cops in the supermarket lately.
So are cigarettes but rather than ban them, they tax the ever loving shit out of them squeezing every last cent they can out of smokers before they kick the bucket.
If someone could realistically work out the numbers of how much money this government could make by decriminalizing meth use and stop spending all that money chasing us, I think it might at least give them some food for thought (if thinking is even a possibility for the evil morons).
Now if some smart person were to approach a select few industry leaders with these figures and way for them to capitalize on decriminalization, shit would change in a New York second, mark my words.
I used to say, I love my country but I'm afraid of my government.
Not any more. I am making serious inquiries into expatriation. Peru, Venezuela maybe Belize, I don't know. I know this, this government makes me fucking sick to my stomach and I can't take much more.

[stoneinfocus]

I know it might seem unbelievable and like fairy tales, that it can be used responisble, but therefore one had to see the details, why it's getting irresposible, and the reasons for that, are in like over 90% of the cases, not the drug, if it were free for everybody to use.

I won't refer now, that there're many exampls and empirical data, which show, that many can use it until their lives ends, which will be no shorter than any other live, because of or not using meth.

The reason, why it gets unresponsible, is that we're not living in a free society, but in a tyrrany, in which everythings aims you to be a slave for the psycho-capitalistic system.

I could give you a laser-weapon, providing you just with a manual of how to use it to smash it onto a stone, as its only purpose.

If a detail, that one can't go about, or hardly can, is missing, which were the make&brake of responsible use, you will fail, as you said, in just a matter of time.

With this policy on drugs and the way we ought to live by the rules, there's not just one wring manual, it's a world-wide threat.

those details, why the use gets out of hand are/might be: being forced to spend much time, with people who can get you meth, or where it's likely to get meth.

-then doing meth, as a "social" act, meth being the major foundation of this companionship, its use will most likely be getting out of your measures.

-Not the drug-use patterns will then be re-inforcing, but the social premises of its only way using it, will be reinforcing the meth use; you will spend much time with people onyl wanting drugs, mainly, thus, you will be doing lots of things, that will be remembered as meth-times, not as the times of your live, you'll be talking about it, remeber it, care of it, lie, to avoid legal trouble or social trouble, because this all is better tolerated and safer, if one was an expert in meth-use under these circumstances, it will get a sort of science, how to avoid things, how to deny a part of your pesonality, etc. etc. meth will help you lie better, thoughh it could be used to be more honest and straight forward.

See, i don'rt wanna be rainign on your parade, but anything which is working with pressure and runs under the wrong principals, according your nature as a human, that way how it fits how you are, it will fail .. 3 months-huh- big deal, that's nothing, care-taking, loss of job.Why? -Not the drug, but it's easier to blame, because one is in the safety of society and social care, but it's the same society, which even caused your addiction problems, and that's why most of the rehab fails, and still, many addicted don't see the reason for which their lives are failing, a society problem, but as their own fault, because they're forced to believe that, by the society.

It's wrong! It's all society's fault, not yours.You're undeniably a part of your enviroment and its circumstances, which will form you and make you adapt to it, according to the nature of those circumstances.

When those circumstances don't fit you and don't respect you, as the human being, which you are, with your given history and influences, you will fail, be forced to fail.No chance.

This is not only a drug-problem, but seen within culture-clashs, racism, anti-semitism, imperialistic politics and military interventions, journalism, sports, you name it, everything inour socviety is going wrong, because we're forced to fail, if our nature doesn't fit, or the history of our past lives don't fit the system, regardless how smart or bad-ass you are now and could handle it.

[stealthninjax]

in swim experience, he is able to use it responsibly using will power and a lot of research. He uses it once a week and its been helping him with his problems so far. He does get cravings when he thinks about it but it doesn't bother him that much. Swim has given up doing it the legal way and stopped asking his therapist to prescribe him adderall or dexedrine because she will not give it out unless he has ADD. He gave SSRI another try and similar to last time, it just makes things worst for him so he got off of it himself once again. Its funny the reason they won't give out adderall or dexedrine is because of their addiction potential yet SSRIs are also addictive! Anyway, not to be politically correct, but 9/10 people swim knows who used it before said that it fucked up their lives... and people will look at you like shit once they found out you're a tweaker. In swim opinion, any drugs can be used responsibly. It's unfortunate that it's being used as a scapegoat for people irresponsibility and stupidity (had to get that off his chest because of all the stereotypical bullshit he got from people he knows regarding his drug use)

[Inudiablo]

Yes for most people amphetamine will cause less sleep being it a stimulant. But it all depends on the swiy. Also Swim has a small question for swiStealthnin was swiy depressed before e? Because e has been know that after long term uses to actually destroy the part of ones brain that creates seritonin.

[vantranist]

^^^^

Meth too i believe...

[towelie]

swim will probably get flamed for this but,he doesn't believe that meth can be used responsibly. no one can POSSIBLY know their genetic predisposition to diseases that meth causes. swiy could tweak for 20 years and have no problems while at the same time swiy could use for 6 months and have permanent heart and brain problems,or develop a life ruining addiction. with such risks, could any meth use in healthy people be called "responsible"?

towelie added 9 Minutes and 59 Seconds later...

also swim didn't mean for the above to sound like a DARE ad, but he thought it was a valid point.

[FooManChoo]

Swim uses meth what he believes to be in a responsible fashion. ie about 10 times in the last few years. This has been without any noticible probs or concerns. Or so he tells me.