Opinions - LSD In Fear and Loathing, possible?

[Handle]

"Aybody want some LSD? I got all the makin's right here!............All I need is a place to c-o-o-k........." [trails off]

No, not my boast, but that of a tall bespectacled hippie chemist in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" [the movie, I'm not sure about the book].

This line has constantly bothered me, and I still don't know the answer. Is there any way, back in the sixties, certain precursors could have been legal that were so close to LSD they could be offered for cooking up in one night at a club?!

I know that LSD is one of the trickiest things to attempt, just so in depth, not like a pseudo red phos iodine shake and bake, but requiring the skills of a true chemist.

I also know that it normally takes a long time, certainly a few days in most cases, and that is the limit of my knowledge.

But that's today. Today when presursors are tricky and restricted, and people have starting points closer and closer to "scratch". What about in the early sixties, is it possible that along with Delysid and whatnot, Sandoz was peddling some legal research cousin that was close enough to be cooked up in one night at a party?! It sounds insane, and maybe it is.

Either way, I would welcome any clues on this topic, so I can finally put my nagging doubts to bed. Actually, the doubt is that it's not impossible, because I'm so certain that it cannot be done, my doubt goes the other way.

Maybe it's just like the notorious "mothballs and ammonia" bombs of Terminator fame...nice onscreen, but just a figment of pop culture.

[dirk]

I've only read a few small sections of the book, and this was one of them. From the film it's easy to get the impresion that it's made nearly instantaneously, however this isn't the case with the original book, I think a number of weeks or months is what is mentioned.

[aowe]

Originally Posted by dirk

I think a number of weeks or months is what is mentioned.

Swim has experienced it takes up to 3-4 months to produce. Swim Isn't very positive. if it came out good or not he's very quiet. Although its a very long process indeed.

[aowe]

I ment "3-4 days". Although the process in its minimum could take no less then 24 hours. i apologize, it doesn't take "3-4 months".

[blackbastard]

what's mentioned in the movie is unfortunately all the info given out in the book. he arrives, offers to cook up some acid, is taken away, but gives out his samples.
maybe there was a legal research chem that was much closer than any current starting point, but it was not mentioned by hst (rip)

Reputation Comments on this post:

I'm in a good mood, and you gotta good anme!

[Samadhi]

the book and the movie are all satires guys. we all know one cannot simply "cook" LSD from flour and sugar. Hunter S. Thompson knew this too.

Don't stress on it. Just enjoy a very cool story!

[Raoul duke420]

The guy in the movie represents owsley, he did have all the makings and he just needed a place to setup a lab. He wasnt talking about cooking it in a club

[Handle]

BB at post #3 has the right idea, that's what I was trying to get at.
Seem to have the juice on this one, eh? But one part of the scene looks quite deliberate, like the fact that the acid is in a capsule, while in modern day Las Vegas, it was blotters.
I assumed that the capsule of acid, aside from being needed to explain the sleeve licking reference [Poor guy, behind every bathroom door, guys in jackets would be getting amazing kicks he could never understand!] ie you can't spill the contents of a piece of paper! But it also seemed indicative of the fact that the time he was talking about must have been pretty early in the acid scene, hence no strictly established forms for the illicit market. The other reason it seemed early was because HST said "I was just another street freak at the time, eating whatever came by"
Now if it was very early, it could still have been in that period of borderline legality, when it was still being used by psychiatrists and researchers etc. As BB said in post #3, what I'm trying to get at is: how about some batch of Sandoz stuff that just needed one simple change and bingo, LSD! Is there anything on earth, including modern illegal intermediates, that is close enough to LSD that it could be done in one night?
There are sometimes cases where drug synths have to be stopped for some reason, and you are left with a fantastic substance that is only a blink away [once you get the needed chems] from finished product. Possible with acid?

[blackbastard]

swim would advise you to stop asking so many probing questions Handle. it could be construed that you're trying to find a way to brew your own acid and be the next owsley.
but the short answer is no.

[Songcycle67]

If that was intended to represent Owsley, Hunter Thompson has a very poor recollection of the 1960's. Owsley began manufacture in 1964--by the middle of that year his infamous White Lightning had appeared at the Watts Acid Test. Owsley was an amphetamine maker (i.e. lots of makeshift lab equipment) in the previous years before he attempted Lysergide and Hunter Thompson would've known these details, as according to the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test (a book about the merry pranksters and the acid tests) Hunter became close friends with Kesey some time during 1964 and was probably thus connected to Owsley, then a relatively unknown figure.

I would also like to add that even Owsley says that making LSD is as easy as baking a cake or following any other recipe once you have the makings. Anything to the contrary I would think to be a perpetuated myth hyped up by the polar opposite of those wiley pranksters who perpetuate the always silly, insidiously ridiculous idea of "bathtub acid."

I guess people just don't want to admit that the difficulty level lies somewhere in the middle for some silly reason.

[Panthers007]

Owlsey also claims that Alexander Shulgin personally gave him the formula for DOM (STP) and gave him his blessing to make it and sell it. Sasha has a few words about Mr. Owsley Stanley's claim. None of them very pleasant as this was a fat lie.

[Samadhi]

the story is hunter s thompson ranting. it's a great book and read, but for someone with little to no (and i mean NO) chemistry knowledge, this one is easy to crack. It isn't possible, end of story.

PS. Owsley's claim to shulgin is horrible, i can't believe anyone would believe that shulgin would tell him to sell it in 25mg doses like it was sold in or even condone producing it... ever wonder why DOM is schedule one? hmmm?

[Lobsang]

Yeah... Don't read too much into the specifics in the book. I mean if I remember right Hunter also in the book talked about this intense substance called adrenachrome if I remember correctly. I am pretty sure that it does not exist. In any event it was a wonderful book and painted many textures. One of my favorite was when he was talking about taking mescaline and drinling budwiser on the beach in the sunset. At least that is what I remember. I have long ago lost the book.

[enquirewithin]

You can't take Fear and Loathing too seriously-- very funny but judging from what he has written to be taken with pinch of salt.

[Handle]

Hah! Adrenochrome exists but it don't woik!

Yeah, I see what you mean, it's interesting, but more of a curiosity than an assertion of fact on his part. It's all like semi mythological acid culture legend.
They also talk about suckin' on a pineal gland and growing tits and a pair o' horns, something like that. Far out.

"You took too much man, too much, too much..."

[podge]

Adrenochrome exists but apparently only as degrading adrenaline molecule which can resemble mescaline. Swim hasnt heard of anyone recreating it in a lab....not to say it cant or it hasnt been before. Also there is still debate to whether the substance even has psychoactive properties.

Moral of the story......fear and loathing is an entertaining movie , just dont expect it to be fully accurate in its details.

[Panthers007]

Originally Posted by podge

Adrenochrome exists but apparently only as degrading adrenaline molecule which can resemble mescaline. Swim hasnt heard of anyone recreating it in a lab....not to say it cant or it hasnt been before. Also there is still debate to whether the substance even has psychoactive properties.

Actually, if you use the search-engine, Bongo & Co. synthesized adrenochrome and adrenolutin. They were interesting, he said. They did not cause the embellished reaction written up in F & L.

[podge]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

Actually, if you use the search-engine, Bongo & Co. synthesized adrenochrome and adrenolutin. They were interesting, he said. They did not cause the embellished reaction written up in F & L.

Interesting, did bongo find them comparable to a phenethylamine experience or were they a different beast entirely ? And as a matter of interest.... is the synthesis regarded as difficult or relatively easy in the chemistry world ?

[Lobsang]

"Adrenochrome,” he said. “You won’t need much. Just a tiny taste.”
I got the bottle and dipped the head of a paper match into it.
“That’s about right,” he said. “That stuff makes pure mescaline seem like ginger beer. You’ll go completely crazy if u take too much.”
…..
“Jesus! What kind of monster client have you picked up this time? There’s only one source for this stuff….”
He nodded.
“The adrenaline glands from a living human body,” I said. “It’s no good if you get it out of a corpse.”

[Panthers007]

Originally Posted by podge

Interesting, did bongo find them comparable to a phenethylamine experience or were they a different beast entirely ? And as a matter of interest.... is the synthesis regarded as difficult or relatively easy in the chemistry world ?

I loathe to admit Tim Leary being right about much - but, according to Bongo Labs, Inc. - he was when he dubbed adrenochrome and adrenolutin "subtle." Nothing like phenethylamine-based psychedelics. If that piece is missing here - I can repost it later in the correct forum. Not sure if I put it here or elsewhere.

Regards synthesis - quite simple really. More later.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

I have always looked at "the adrenochrome scene" in a different light. Hunter is already tripping on something, obviously, as he is throughout the movie, and probably high on cocaine and marijuana too, as well as God knows what else. "Dr. Gonzo" advises him to take a hit of adrenochrome, Hunter takes too much and since adrenochrome does exist and is a stimulant, it simply pushed him over the edge he was already teetering on. The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Hunter is thrown into full-blown hallucination mode, and as his attorney starts talking about "huge hairy tits" and the like (note: in regards to extract of pineal gland, not adrenochrome), Hunter's overloaded brain just gives in to the combination of drugs and he hallucinates what the attorney is babbling about.
In other words, it was the result of heavy polysubstance abuse, not just a couple dabs of adrenochrome.

[Songcycle67]

word to all the previous posts. Owsley is an asshole and a liar, but usually he lies to make himself look better. I don't think he would say something that would degrade his integrity as a cook just to piss off people who think it's hard. After all, in the interview I read that in he also claims to have passed down many spells and incantations to scully and co. to say over their batches.

[Mint boi]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

Owlsey also claims that Alexander Shulgin personally gave him the formula for DOM (STP) and gave him his blessing to make it and sell it.

Was Owlsey responsible for the flood of rediculously high DOM doses on the streets that got it outlawed?

[Panthers007]

He denies this. Seems the original STP that appeared were 20mg tablets of DOM. As DOM takes approx. 2 hours to alert, people thought it was weak LSD - and took another! Ooops!! Owsely said that's bullshit, that no one knows as well as he. So forth. But the fact remains: The hospital ER in San Francisco had a steady flow of casualties of this stuff. Owsley had the synthesis. Owsley claims (today) that Shulgin gave him the synthesis. Shulgin says it was ripped-off without his (patented) permission. So who put the 20mg 'STP' pills out?

Guess.

[Handle]

Well, I think the real point is, take it all with a grain of salt. It's all just a literary exploration of the edges of psychedelic consciousness, I don't believe we need to hold it up, either for nitpicking criticism, nor for complex explanations in its defense.
It's just an enjoyable read and movie.