Cactus identification (pictures)

[Tomasz79]

During my trip to Holland 2 years ago, I`v bought mysalf a cactus in a grow/smart shop. All they told me about it was that its 14 years old and ready to eat - and it`s portion for one person - maybe two. They were selling small young peyote cactusses too, but 7 years of waiting were required and I knew that other cactuses contain mescaline too so I bought this one. They didn`t know latin name of it. So now I`v got this unknown cacti and I don`t trust some people in growshop in Holland completly - it`s my health, right? So, 1 year ago, I`v borrowed digital cam. and finally made some pics of my little plant. I hope someone here can help me to identify it. Oh yeah, I`v checked on erowind and some pictures of some less known cact. look a bit like mine, but not quite, so I still dont know... Here goes...










this picture is 1 year old, on this pic the cactus is about 5 - 6 inches tall, now its 13 inches tall. Can someone help me? Can you identify this cactus? does it contain mescaline? I will greatly appreaciate and input!(ps: I`m hoping to borrow digital camera again this week and update latest pictures, it looks a bit different now)

[xctico]

have you seen it flower?

the flowers are usually the easiest way to tell between cacti.



You should take closeup pictures of the spine formations to help ID.



It kind of looks like a peruvianus.



compare it to this one.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/i...chive/trichoce reus_peruvianus8.jpg



or you could find a larger cacti image list here



http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/suc_names_T.html





Once you positively id it, here's a couple of tips for making it develop more alkaloids.



http://www.erowid.org/plants/peyote/...actus_guide.sh tml

[bman1]

It may be a short spined peruvianus but spines look a bit short to be one. Peruvianus havespines usally at least 1" long


It looks like a san pedro (trichocereus pachanoi) to swim, but as xctico stated the flowers are the best way to tell. Swim has a friend who has a few pedros that have spine like that from hollaand also. The are seed grownYou may want to count the number of spines coming from the areola the number of spines makes a difference and so does the lenght of the spines.

[Peyote]

http://images.google.nl/images?q=Tri...20Peruvianus%2 0&hl=nl&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi


Besides, you can trust them..Why would they sell you a bad cacti??

[Peyote]

We're nice people!

[Tomasz79]

Thanks. It looks close to peruvian, yes, but as I was watching peruvians, they have long, thick pins. My cact has quite short (1/3 inch or less) pins and these are quite gentle.


Af for dutch people... they sure are nice! I dont suspect them for trying to poison me or anything, but I would really like to know what do I have to be able dose right. Peruvian torch and san pedro have different ammounts of mescaline in them, etc.





Tomorrow I will have cool digital camera and will make some pictures: closeups of pins and what not. Its now twice as big as in above picture, but I havent seen it flower unfortunatly (I didnt even know it may) I`ll post as soon as poslible. I must finally identify this little sacred fella...

[bman1]

With a sryup you can meassure a dose even if you do not know wha kind of cactus it is. so make the syurp and start out with a shot or two That should be a pretty good starting point from there you can judge the potency.Evenknoiwing what kind of cacti you have does not mean you know its potency. A san pedro may be stronger than a weak peyote and peruvians or vice versa. Each seed is different. peruvians are not alwys stronger than pedro just usally It will also be hard for anyone to distinguish your cacti by only picutes just educated guesses

[Tomasz79]

I actually plan on doing it with my two close friends, so considering its size (13 inch the highest of three seen on the picture) I wont have a second chance to try small ammount and continue with higher.





I would just love to know that this is actually a MESCALINE containing cactus, and while we experience it we are on a mescaline trip, and not some other bull - shit.





But I guess I`ll make damn good pictures anyway and see how far I can go with id-ing it on the net and than... syroup and nature trip.

[indjuwandjuwa]

they are certainly not trichocerues cacti! but they are beautiful. Do not overwater. good growingpractice before you get yer hands on a pedro.


[no sources outside the sources forum. Please read the rules]Edited by: Alfa

[xctico]

indjuwandjuwa



How do you know they are not trichocereus? I'm not doubting your
expertise, but rather curious as of which caracteristics tell them away.

I hope to hear from you.

</span>

[Alfa]

The cactus is not 14 years old. As the height of it is around 5 to <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficemarttags" /><st1:metricconverter wt="on" ProductID="6 inches">6 inches</st1:metricconverter>, it will be around 1 year old. There are different Trichocereus peruvianus or cereus varieties.

This is Trichocereus peruvianus var. truxilloensis.

The mescaline cactus on your picis the main Trichocereus peruvianus. I doubt that this will be enough for one person @ that stage. @ the current stage it is. I would let it grow some more as it will grow faster the larger it gets. (also depending on the environment of course) Peruvian torch also has a varieties with long spines, but mostly they are Trichocereus bridgesii sold as Peruvian Torch.

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />Trichocereus bridgesii is also potent.

I would not just trust in the competence of a someone in a smart or grow shop. If they show that they know a lot on the subject, I would start to trust in them.

[indjuwandjuwa]

xctico


a part of my garden. enjoy: http://www.pbase.com/briansprock

[Tomasz79]

Ok, I have new pics! First extreme spikes close ups and follow up a whol cactus, its now 13 inches tall. Made some photoshop changes to increase contrast.














By saing its not trichoc. you are sure about it and it means its not mescaline containing?Do these new pics change anything?

[Peyote]

`mm lookds odd

[Tomasz79]

damn, that doesnt sound all thatpromising

[Tomasz79]

Ok, it`s been id-ed!





its not active, it is Cereus Jamacaru, and it does look like that googled one:


http://www.hollygatecactus.co.uk/ima...gue/Cer_validu s.jpg





Oh well, better luck next time. Mescaline isnt going anywhere, I`m not going anywhere, nature isnt...

[indjuwandjuwa]

WAIT WAIT WAIT - C. Jamacaru does contain goodies!


check it!


http://www.herbal-shaman.com/database/cerejama.htm

[Tomasz79]

Interesting... traces of mescaline, right, so I`ll eat 25 pounds and can cound on mild mescaline trip





But what are those other goodies about, anyone know something about tyramine, hordinine? I`ll obviously make a inveastigation, but if anyone knows anything... ! thx.

[Alfa]

Just check Christian Rätsch his book Encyclopedia of psychoactive plants and you'll find a pic just like the one you have stating that it is trichocereus peruvianus aka peruvian torch, which does contain mescaline.

[Eirias]

Perhaps I can clear things up. I agree that the cacti in
the original picture do not look like T. peruvianus, or any type of
Trichocereus for that matter. It does look more like a Cereus
species, and I say this based on the colouring (deep shiny/waxy green
versus the dusky grey-hued bluish-green of the Trichocereus genus,
especially peruvianus), and the shape of the ribs (more sharp and deep
and skinnier, not thick and fat and semi-rounded ribs like on
Trichocereus).

There have been a lot of issues with the identification of
Trichocereus species, as well as many taxonomical arguments about what
is a seperate speices, what is a hybrid, what is a sub-species, etc.
etc. The whole situation has been addressed by K. Trout in one of
his "Trout's Notes" journals on the entheogenic cacti, but it seems
like things are still getting cleared up. There are however
several pictures around (unfortunately possibly in Christian Ratsch's
excellent book as well) that are either not Trichocereus species or in
fact hybrids of two different species and not a pure-bred peruvianus.

Please don't be upset with the people at the smartshop who sold
you the cacti, it's not their fault that things are so confusing with
the current situation surrounding Trichocereus species, much less 2
years ago. They
probably used one of the overly-simplified guides and actually in fact
may have followed the
misleading identification guidelines correctly, or they may have
even received the cacti from a botanical supplier who was equally
misinformed
(I have misidentified T. peruvianus and purchased instead hybrids
myself after being almost positive that I had identified the species
correctly). Also, just because it is not as rich in specifically
mescaline does not mean that it couldn't still be rendered active by a
cocktail of
various phenethylamines (or even isoquinolines or tryptamines), and if
there are successful bioassay reports
or a history of traditional entheogenic usage of the species, then I
see no reason why you couldn't keep it as part of your collection.

However, I am rather certain (I am not a professional botanist)
that it is not a peruvianus or even any other species or species hybrid
of any other cacti in the genus Trichocereus. If I am proven to
be incorrect, then I will gladly concede my opinion and apologize, but I am
99% sure at this point. <!--
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Edited by: Eirias

[Eirias]

Also the spines, while coloured and clustered somewhat similar
to
T. peruvianus, are clearly not of that species as they are far too
short, too thin, less whitish-grey and "dusky", and have slightly
smaller tufts of
the whitish cellulose "hair" that is found at the base of each spine
cluster. Unless a peruvianus is a rather young and very
well-watered, sunned, and
nutrified specimen (which BTW can make a peruvianus more bright green
as well), the spines on peruvianus species almost always fade from a
brown-black to a greyish-white as the plant gets older and the spines
grow
beyond 1 to 1 and 1/4 inches long.

I can safely say that there is now no doubt in my mind that this is
neither a T. peruvianus nor any Trichocereus species or hybrid thereof for that matter.

As for tyramine and hordenine, these are neither psychoactive
nor very pleasant to ingest. Hordenine (a tryptamine-like indole
alkaloid) is one of the lesser alkaloids found in phalaris grass
species, and may be responsible for the "phalaris staggers" in
Australian sheep who consume the grass, which are epileptic-type
convulsions and fits. Tyramine is an amino acid found in many
fermanted foods, and while essential in smaller amounts for human
nutrition, it can bring about headaches in excessive levels, and can
potentially cause serious "cheese syndrome" type complications such as
dangerously high blood pressure if taken in sufficient amounts with a
potent MAO inhibitor (especially the long-term presciption MAOIs).

Desirable alkaloids in cacti besides mescaline could possibly
include various other phenethylamines (cannot remember specific ones)
usually related to mescaline in structure, various isoquinolines (some
of which are mentioned in Dr. Shulgin's book on the subject), and
tryptamines like n,n-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT (both apparently found in some
cacti species). <!--
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Edited by: Eirias