Combinations - Anti-Depressents and 5-HTP?

[BearClaw]

Swim is currently seeing a psychiatrist, who has been pumping him full with different pharmaceuticals of happiness. With no success has swim found a anit-depresent that help's swim with his "sadness". Swim has been taking 5-HTP, due to the subtle boost it gives him...

But Swim has recently been told by a friend that this could be a deadly combo?

Any Info that could help swim come to a conclusion would be much help.

Thanks -
BearClaw

[RaverHippie]

SWIY will need to give more specific information since we can read beyond the vague term "antidepressants".

[BearClaw]

Trazodone on a regular basis, Effexor (Which swim has currently stopped due to its side effects.) Also has taken Wellbutrin, but has some what stopped.

But Since Swim is asked to being more specific, in general is it a bad mix?

- Thanks Again
BearClaw

[SageofNagarjuna]

if swiy is taking ssri's in combination with 5-htp there is a risk of serotonin syndrome. since the ssri's slow down the reuptake process of the serotonin that's already there, and swiy is introducing more serotonin into the system from 5-htp then toxicity can result. it is difficult to say how much of each is required before passing that threshold, but swiy should try to be careful with this mixture.

[Paracelsus]

Your friend was probably concerned about serotonin syndrome, which is a potentially fatal result of combining certain serotonergic drugs.

The warning regarding 5-HTP is most likely exaggerated, as combining 5-HTP with SSRIs, tricyclics, and MAOIs was not found to cause serotonin syndrome in several studies (see this review).

[RaverHippie]

wikipedia says there's no interactions between trazodone and 5HTP as well.

[Paracelsus]

Sageofnagarjuna: Please provide published case reports of serotonin syndrome involving 5-HTP before making such warnings based on purely theoretical concerns.

EDIT: trazodone is also an almost insignificant concern; because of its weak serotonergic potency, there are not many reports of serotonin syndrome with trazodone.

[RaverHippie]

Found this out of curiosity:

"Apparently eating a diet high in tryptophan does not significantly increase 5-HTP levels. However, the introduction of L-tryptophan, and especially 5-HTP, into the body through supplementation could increase available levels of serotonin and amplify the effects of any SSRI drugs. This combination could potentially result in excessive levels of serotonin and produce an adverse reaction in the form of serotonin syndrome; it could also alter the levels of other related hormones.
(Fuller RW. Adv Neurol. 1986;43:469-480; den Boer JA, Westenberg HG. Psychiatry Res 1990 Mar;31(3):267-278.)"

Didn't seem like definitively a problem though, more like speculation based on limited knowledge concerning SSRI's. Although speculation made by someone with much more knowledge than I. But I could not find any documented cases where such an interaction proved to manifest into some real-life problem.

[BearClaw]

So too much serotonin is bad, I figured it would just make a happier person?

[Paracelsus]

Too much of everything is bad. Serotonin syndrome isn't really a syndrome, but a form of toxicity (poisoning). The more your serotonin levels rise, the more serotonergic side effects you experience. From a certain level of seriousness, these are considered serotonin syndrome. And some combinations produce more severe serotonin syndrome than other combinations.

[BearClaw]

Swim know's this is kinda' a dumb question, but he is aware that MDMA dumps your serotonin, thus the effect, of "ecstasy". So would taking MDMA from time to time prevent serotonin syndrome?

thanks

[Paracelsus]

That would be unwise. Although SSRIs block the effects of MDMA, the serotonin depletion following MDMA use manifests itself in depression, which defeats the purpose of taking 5-HTP and antidepressants.

[BearClaw]

Ahh, thank swiy... Last question, so swiy would advise against the use of rodcts like MDMA, if one was trying to effectively treat depression? Also what other recreation drugs should swim be weary of if he was trying to effectively treat depression?

Thank you so much for the guidance in this subject, where swim for the most part is blind.

[Paracelsus]

You should probably start a new thread about this last question, as more may see it and answer it.

[BearClaw]

will do.

[doggy_hat]

If Serotonin Syndrome is caused by excessive Serotonin levels, then shouldn't taking MDMA immediately induce Serotonin Syndrome. Since it dumps all of the brain's stores of Serotonin in a short period of time.

[Paracelsus]

MDMA does release serotonin into synapses, but you still have a reuptake carrier and monoamine oxidase to take care of it. Combining MDMA with monoamine oxidase inhibitors (even less potent ones like moclobemide) has been known to cause deaths. The combination with pharmaceutical SSRIs hasn't (they actually counteract MDMA), because of an unknown mechanism probably related to the serotonin transporter. Combining drugs that increase serotonin in different ways is more likely to cause the syndrome. But back on topic.

[jb2008]

SWIM can definitely recommend 5 HTP + venlafaxine combo, because SWIM is on it right now. However, SWIY should not take 5 HTP every day, perhaps twice a week as SWIM does before bed, so that SWIYs body does not stop producing 5 HTP on its own. The only downside to 5 HTP is price, but SWIM supposes that is offset by the less than daily frequency of dosage.

SWIM took 100mg his first night, then 200mg for a few weeks, then yesterday SWIM took 400mg 5 HTP before bed and he had one of the best nights sleep he's ever had, and one of the best dreams too. SWIM is planning on writing an experience thread for that 5 HTP 'trip'. venlafaxine did make SWIM feel naturally better in a way, but SWIM felt there was always something natural lacking. We humans are not meant to have venlafaxine in our systems, it is a synthetic chemical. 5 HTP, however, we are meant to have, and SWIM could tell the difference when he took it. He woke up feeling warm, content, relaxed, but not overly so as, perhaps codeine or other drugs would give a false euphoria; it actually felt natural. SWIM was also considering changing his AD, but now he will stick with the faxine and 5 HTP as long as it keeps working like this. The rest, he feels, needs to be fixed by SWIM himself, not medication.

jb2008 added 3 Minutes and 40 Seconds later...

BTW, SWIM thinks SWIY shouldn't give up on your antidepressants! It's kind of hit and miss for AD's, but SWIM assures you, they do work. SWIY just has to find the right one and for pity's sake, stay on it for 6 weeks + to see the proper effect. Yes, the first few weeks are crazy, but so many get impatient because it takes a while to adjust (they are altering your brain chemistry you know!)
SWIY should take 5 HTP, yes, but also try every AD out there if need be. It's worth the effort if SWIY can live a life without feeling depression.