Social - Stigma associated with ketamine use?

[PingoTango]

SWIM has noticed that, even amongst "drug circles" (whatever they are), ketamine use seems to have something of a stigma attached to it, and the k head is seen as something of a pariah. He wonders why this is - is it because the ketamine experience itself is so unlike that of many other drugs out there (it certainly isn't instantly euphoric in the same way as, say, MDMA or LSD is, which seems to put most new users off straight away), or maybe it is the image of ketamine as a dirty "horse tranquilizer" (which, of course, is a lie fueled by the anti-drug media)?

Have any of you k heads ever experienced this as well, or is it unique to SWIM's area?

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice idea

[Matches]

Around here, it's immediately labeled with a "date rape" analogy, which I believe is politics, at work, in its ugliest form.

[drab4]

Swim hasn't really noticed this too much in his area. Quite a few people seem to use ketamine on occasion, people of all different backgrounds

Really the only drug which is significantly looked down on around here is heroin. Unfairly so, in my opinion, but there you go

[kaczynski]

Well it's generally considered a "club drug," which, as matches said, automatically associates it with date rape for a lot of people.

[PingoTango]

Around SWIM's end ketamine is more associated with the squat party/breakcore scene than the mainstream clubbing scene, which is dominated by cocaine and ecstacy.

What bugs him, is that these same people who would denounce a wrap of pure, freshly cooked-up ketamine as "dirty", are more than happy to buy 5 pills of unknown strength/makeup from a dodgy guy they don't know in a club toilet...

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good point.

[RaverHippie]

A lot of people look at SWIM like he's crazy each time he's expressed his wanting to experiment with Ketamine. He knows what you're talking about.

[Graduisic]

i think this could be said about ANY dissociative... SWIM definitely gets crap for enjoying DXM, and if anyone swim knows is doing PCP then they're "messed up" but will pop a roll at any time.

ketamine on its own has its potential to be a date-rape drug and in certain areas that may set it apart from other dissociatives, but it seems that just generally speaking, psychedelics such as pot, LSD, MDMA, are matter and dissociatives are like anti-matter to some people; and with the diluted, misinformed public out there immediately turning to fear a drug simply because of authority figures spreading propaganda

a drug is a drug is a drug to swim, he treats a dxm addict with the same respect as a pothead, or a ketamine user, an MDMA raver, an alcoholic, or even people who abstain from all drug use. since he thinks all the experiences in the world are no different than a drug, but that would be a digression from this thread

[Nose Dive]

My Bill has also found this. It is totally rediculous. A few times he has mentioned that he likes to take ketamine to people and they are like 'Oh man, that's dirty. That shit is miging' and strangely enough these are people who like to get smashed a lot off of cocaine or just alcohol.
I think it may be because how the user looks after dosing or maybe it's because a lot of people try it expecting something else like a buzzy rush.

[nate81]

actually I get the pariah effect whenever I meantion the use of drugs for something beyond getting "fucked up". But that's the bible belt for you. K is unheard of near me so I can't comment on that specifically. Maybe SWIM should take a break in mexico and get a taste.

[Masa]

Yeah Swim agrees
The are some ppl who don’t like K, usually it’s because of its similarity to H, Take some then curl up on the floor and not say anything , this is a far cry from the more social drugs like E or Coke
It can provoke fairly hefty vomiting on the first few trys this means some ppl take it once , spend a hour in the WC spewing and then never really fancy trying it again
Also agree that it’s far less of a club drug than often reported

[Lettish]

Swim knows what Swiy means.

Swim was once invited to a small gathering with some new friends for a bit of a smoke (marijuana) and a bit of a drink (alcohol). Swim asked the homeowner if it was ok to bring round his Ketamine, for himself and anyone who wanted to try it. Swim never intended to use it to reach K-hole or get anywhere near CEVs, but more as a relaxant. However, the homeowner was disgusted that I wanted to bring this foul, dirty, disgusting powder into her house. She kept repeating "No, no, I don't want that shit in my house" and, ironically, she is a big weed smoker, takes excessive ecstasy, probably has a cocaine addiction and drinks far too much alcohol.

It's like they just have no idea. Swim only has two or three close friends who really know what ketamine is all about, who don't frown upon you as some dirty horse-tranq abuser. These people know how fascinating, eye-opening and interesting ketamine is. And Swim is glad these people and himself have that click with each other. It is hard to describe or put it into words, but they all know exactly what it is.

[notts.pirate]

Originally Posted by Lettish

she is a big weed smoker, takes excessive ecstasy, probably has a cocaine addiction and drinks far too much alcohol.

is she single, she sounds like my ideal woman

SWIM used to think Ket was a 'dirty' drug as he listened to teh hysteriar and terrible stories of people seeing crazy stuff, passing out etc

SWIM decided to try it one weekend when he couldnt get any pills and instantly fell in love, shame he has lost his dealers phone number

[pinkandfluffy]

Yeah, around here theres a large stigma connected to Ketamine. When meeting new people swim doesn't usually admit to having done it, and it is seen that only wasters do it. The idea that it is just Horse Tranquiliser is very big here. I educate whenever i can!!!

[[éS]Infinite]

It quite depends on which "social group" of friends of SWIM's in this case. There are his friends who use and understand drugs, and know quite highly of the dangers and brilliancies of ketamine (one of his friend's brothers is quite horribly addicted). Whereas there are the friends who aren't common users, or quite as knowledgeable, who will throw out such remarks as "Isn't ketamine like a tranquilizer used on cats?" or "Eww, never do that stuff I have a friend who overdosed on it her/his first time!". Simply idiotic remarks, which SWIM has learned to either explain clearly so misconceptions are abandoned, or to say (if he really knows they would not buy it) "Oh really? Wow, SWIM never knew that, that's terrible!".
It is, like most things for SWIM, knowing to predict a reaction and avoiding as much conflict as he can.
But overall, in his area he doesn't face many of these people. He himself is quite discrete about drug use anyways, and only really shares ideas with those who are willing to listen.

[Masa]

Look at the flip side tho ,
As long as K remains a stigmatised drug and usage remains low SIWY can all enjoy benefits
K powder is generally regarded to be purer than Coke or H and Pills are full of crap
Price is still low and Media/Law Enforcement is focused on other things (K is only Class C here in the UK. Coke, H and Pills are all Class A)

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great perspective! Holds true

[dave-o]

As far as SWIM understands it, the stigma is due to the fact that it single-handedly destroyed the dance scene in the town he went to university.
Where before there were pilled up ravers dancing and gurning at each other, when K hit, suddenly there were only caualties lying around at the perimiters of the empty dance floor.

[notts.pirate]

Originally Posted by dave-o

As far as SWIM understands it, the stigma is due to the fact that it single-handedly destroyed the dance scene in the town he went to university.
Where before there were pilled up ravers dancing and gurning at each other, when K hit, suddenly there were only caualties lying around at the perimiters of the empty dance floor.

theres the same feeling going round the rave world - its a fairly big topic of conversation but as usual its the few who dont know how much to take that fuck it up for everyone else

[PingoTango]

Originally Posted by notts.pirate

theres the same feeling going round the rave world - its a fairly big topic of conversation but as usual its the few who dont know how much to take that fuck it up for everyone else

[off topic]Where about in Nottingham are you? Do you get out to Blueprint or the Garvey much?[/off topic]

[Geeza]

In swim's area, K is very cheap and very pure. It's usually associated with squat-parties and free raves.

So if you take K people assume you're homeless or something.

[rupert]

Considering that one of the two times I've seen k at work, was at a festival with a guy that looked like he had a white crayon showed up his nose and his eyes sort of empty walking at a top speed of 2 km/hour. He looked real scary - like a walking corpse. I was shocked, and wondered what the dancing kids behind me thought!!
To me that's what makes k sound pretty ugly. That K look wouldn't go down well on a dating tv show.

[Nose Dive]

Well Ketamine definitely isn't something to try and pull on, no. But then I guess everyone has their preferred times for taking. Personally, My Bill would only do it behind closed doors.

[sarbanes]

it makes sense: u r doing a drug indicated for animals, and a class of drug most closely related to pcp (dust), which itself has a huge stigma.

[PingoTango]

Originally Posted by sarbanes

it makes sense: u r doing a drug indicated for animals, and a class of drug most closely related to pcp (dust), which itself has a huge stigma.

1. Ketamine was first developed for use on humans, initially as a non-psychedelic(!) alternative to PCP, which was used as a battlefield anesthetic.

2. Many (most?) drugs given to humans are also used on animals. In some parts of the world, ketamine will be administered to humans in the event that no medical records can be found (if, say, you were to be admitted to hospital in an unconscious state with no identification on your person) - because it is one of the safer anesthetics around.

Ketamine is no more a horse transquilizer than ibuprofen is a dog painkiller.

[ironmics]

Around here, no one knows what ketamine is, SWIM has been wanting to try it and has been open about it, but no one knows what it is or where to get it. This is somewhat who doesn't live in Eugene by the way.

[rupert]

Originally Posted by ironmics

Around here, no one knows what ketamine is, SWIM has been wanting to try it and has been open about it, but no one knows what it is or where to get it. This is somewhat who doesn't live in Eugene by the way.

I'm not sure how long it's "been around for" , but I had never heard of it until ...hmmm 2001 or 02 and since then increasingly more. I could imagine that it getting popular fairly recently could come witha a "fear of the newcomer" reaction, adding to the stigma. (All of a sudden there were some headlines in the newspaper scandalising it.)
It's just a thought, it might have been big for years, just that I never knew that kind of people.