Damaged visual cortex?

[Psyduck]

SWIM did 20mg and 20mg (T+6.00) 2 weeks ago. It seems something changed in his brain. SWIM isn't saying he has HPPD. He didn't find someone else having similar side-effects such a long time after ingestion, so he started to worry. Some of the lingering effects are for example:

-Colors are much more vivid and bright (SWIM is sure that the lipton ice tea bottle is not the same as before )
-Streetlights are still as magical and beautiful as when SWIM was tripping
-Trees still have that mystical look
-SWIM sees much more geometry in buildings
-SWIM his eye-seeing is better (he can read things now he only could read with glasses on)

SWIM doesn't see things moving or distorting and he actually wouldn't mind keeping these 'side-effects'. But.....

he is a little bit of a control-science-freak and he wants an explanation as accurate as possible in order to let it go. He is still pretty insecure about this...

So he's looking for an explanation why this happened... Some sloppy googling brought up the following questions:

-Has something changed in his visual cortex? If so, what?
-Is there any damage or are some neurons just more sensitive?
-Will the brain repair itself and return to its natural state over time?
-Can subsequent trips cause any more 'damage' or 'changes'?
-Does he have to worry, like look for medical advice (since this behavior is very uncommon -- so better be as skeptical as possible)
-He uses methylphenidate daily. Could the combination with 2C-B been somehow dangerous? (no search results on erowid/DF)

[Coconut]

Consult a doctor, perhaps specifically a neurologist.

[Psyduck]

Ok, thanks for your reply c0c0nut.

Less frightening advice is still welcome so that he has more options

[Matches]

Best bet is finding someone in the medical field who can administer a PET and at least give you that peace of mind of knowing what's going on. You could only draw answers and undertanding from that.

[Psyduck]

[truth]

just let it be. IF SWIY like seeing things like that then who cares. Doctors are just gonna try to do a bunch of shit and make life way more stressful. SWIM says you just chill on it for a little. Like a leaf downstream.

[Matches]

It's going to be the best, and most indicative way to see if there's been any permanent cross-synaptic changes. I promise you, you will have that much more of a collective sigh of relief if you go and get it over with. Sometimes, it's just push-come-to-shove, plain and simple.

Lemme put it like this: You feel awkward about changes in your vision and perception -- Seeing a neurologist with the right equipment, at the very worst, will simply give you a shrug, but by no means worsen your conditions because you're in doctor's office X, Y or Z.

Feel that you owe it to yourself

[Psyduck]

Originally Posted by Matches

Feel that you owe it to yourself

Of course. He's not blaming somebody else. But he has tripped only 5 times in his whole life, so he's not abuser of those chemicals.

And all the above changes are positive. He can read the blackboard again at school without glasses; that's extraordinary.

But because he's not that involved with psychedelics, you must understand where his concerns are coming from.

Lemme put it like this: You feel awkward about changes in your vision and perception -

Indeed. But what's the norm? What he is seeing right now, could be something which other people are seeing all their life. If it's just chemistry, he should not try to define what 'normal perception' is.

Seeing a neurologist with the right equipment, at the very worst, will simply give you a shrug, but by no means worsen your conditions because you're in doctor's office X, Y or Z.

Such a scan will be pretty expensive, and he will have to come clean with his parents, and once again: he's not a regular user, so this option might cause a lot of problems and costs. But from the moment something negative is noticeable he will see a doctor, of course.

[Matches]

Do what makes you feel the most comfortable.

[dr_haldol]

Hi PsyDuck!

I think it's more kind of that mind-opening stuff. Maybe something happend to your spiritual ego and thus affected your normal life. Maybe you just gained some kind of positive *can'tfindawordforit*; say you (your brain) is now more open for the beauty of nature and existence.

All the things you say sound positive...especially the last one

Since this thread is a bit old....do the effects still last?

[leapfrog]

20mg of what?

[WillySkilly]

Does SWIY see movement within his eyes mildly similar to the visualizations created by acid? Like does SWIY see movement and swirls of colors similar to spots? Is it more significant when staring at a computer monitor? SWIM has seen strange movement in the background of his visuals along with strange designs that can't even be described due to his inability to focus on them ever since the last time he tripped on acid, which was in the middle of October. SWIM sees the stuff more when watching a computer screen containing a lot of white, staring at a blank white anything or staring at a clear blue sky. These strange visuals are intensified when high (even mildly) or when taking Adderall. If it's not like SWIY, does anyone else know any explanations as to what SWIM is seeing?

[ihavequestions]

it sounds to swim as if its a case of mild to moderate HPPD. all the symptoms described are the same of those with hppd. especialy if whatever what ingested has hallucinogenic properties.

[Felix Guattari]

First of all, 20 mg of what?

SWiM has noted some of the above changes after tripping, but certainly never saw them as negatives. One can make anything sound awful by giving it a pathological identification like 'HPPD', but it has always been my opinion that such heavy-handed terms oughtn't be brought in unless there is something actually interfering with SWiY's ability to go about living in the manner which he choses to do so.

While there may have been some changes to the configuration of some of SWiY's neurons, its pretty unlikely that the changes you've listed could be straightforwardly connected to any measurable changes in brain-state.

There certainly is a possibility of m'phen potentiating these effects; there are a few accounts of interesting visual effects from the coadministration of dopaminergics and psychedelic serotonergics.

The only 'advice' I would give is, if you're worried by the changes, to wait for a while and see if they clear up before taking any more psychedelics. On the other hand, if SWiY is adventurous, he could see if they intensify with further immediate use. The results of either would be interesting to hear.


Oh, and anything a neurologist would do for you would be unlikely to be much. A brain scan of any sort would be interesting, but probably wouldn't say much and would be dreadfully expensive. On the other hand, you might be prescribed some lame panacea (antipsychotic or SSRI), which would, of course, be lame.

[Desertfox]

DO NOT combine methylphenidate with 2c-b. SWIY is asking for negative effects to occur if this is done repeatedly. And its not damage to your neurons, its electrical excitement that occurs to them. and the altered perception you're experiencing occurs from 2c-b by itself mainly due to your brain still trying to grasp on to the altrered state of conciousness it recently underwent.

you may find the folowwing video very informative in helpful in understanding how visuals occur in the brain...
http://www.archive.org/details/redwo...06_02_14_cowan

[gmeziscool2354]

i've found that methylphenidate, especially as one is comming off of it, can lead to similar effects. Some one used to take it as a prescription, don't remember dossage, then switched to concerta 54's. He seemed to notice similar symptoms and decided that it was time to get off ADD meds. For the most part, he hasn't regreted this decesion. there really were no WD's after 8 years of medical use daily and recreational use on the side for about 3

[Jozef]

My first and foremost advice is: don't worry!
You have not damaged your visual cortex, however you probably have a mild case of HPPD.
The symptoms you describe happen to me often after I take a strong psychedelic, but always fade away after two weeks or so.
The methylphenidate possibly has been exaccerbating this, by disrupting your quality of your sleep.
I would just stay off anything psychoactive for a few weeks, eat well, sleep well.
It should all go away eventually.

[dadrone]

SWIM did a combination of DOB and nitrous once, and found that, during the duration of the nitrous experience, his vision became 20/20 or at least something close to it. His visual acuity, normally, is about 20/70, due mainly to astigmatism.

SWIM also found- although he's not sure exactly what did this, thanks to a period in his life where he did a LOT of psychedelics very frequently- that his color vision has improved somewhat as well. SWIM was tested at age 16 and found to be 60% colorblind. SWIM is nowhere near normal color vision, still, and it's entirely possible that his usage of psychedelics has merely heightened his appreciation of color.

SWIM found more in the way of continuous visual distortions (i.e. seeing checkerboard patterns in the streaks of light produced by a car driving past SWIM, and so forth) after a period of heavy DXM use.

Is anyone else at all angered by the fact that most nations' drug policies prohibit or at least hamper the investigations of such effects? SWIM would love to know exactly how and why his visual acuity improved, even temporarily, after the use of DOB and nitrous.

Psyduck, I would say don't worry about SWIP's symptoms, interesting though they may be. SWIP hasn't mentioned any cognitive problems; these would be worth getting checked out, as would lingering issues regarding emotional regulation, etc. The visual changes you describe for SWIP seem mostly positive. I agree that it would be great to know exactly what's going on, but we don't all have fantastic medical insurance.

Good luck!