When does cocaine use become a problem?

[DeadGeneral]

Hi all...

SWIM has been a fairly regular user of snow for about a month now (His first experience was on leap day 2008). He's been wanting to try the snow for awhile and when he got his first taste he immediately knew that this was his favorite. He's always tried to do it in moderation and usually succeeded (he's had maybe 10 experiences total, in the 3.5 weeks he's been using it).

Last Monday (3/17) SWIM went to his place of occupation to collect his check. It had been about a week since his last use and he had made up his mind he would buy a g. He wasn't exactly CRAVING it, but looking forward to it. However, upon arriving he learned that there had been a problem with SWIMs check being printed and he would not be recieving it that day, but the day after. SWIM was disappointed and agitated, but he could wait until tomorrow.

Tuesday, snow was all SWIM could think about. he arrived at his workplace and inquired on the status of his check. SWIM learned that his check would not be printed that week and would instead be merged with his check from NEXT Monday. SWIM was infuriated. He cursed and yelled at his manager, got very belligerent, and is quite confident he scared away a few customers.

Upon regaining his composure several hours later, it occured to SWIM that he felt like shit. So SWIM went and purchased an admirable quantity of amphetamine in the form of 30mg Adderall XR. It was then that began an Adderall binge which would not end until Friday. Any time SWIM felt a comedown coming, he got depressed and mopey. All he could think was "Great, you didn't control your habits and now you've gotten yourself in the hole." SWIM thought he was psychologically addicted.

When the binge ended and SWIM could think relatively straight again, it occurred to him that he does not WANT to stop. He enjoys his use of stimulants (primarily snow) and sees himself doing them for the rest of his life. Now satisfied that he would be able to control his habits and strangely, no longer craving some kind of upper in his system, he was confident he could make it through the weekend without wasting any more money on stimulants...though this was primarily because he was penniless at this point.

SWIM came into $65 on Saturday. As soon as he had money in his pocket again, all he could think was "Finally, I'm reunited with my PRECIOUS!" Within two hours SWIM was in possession of a half G and more Adderall...and was once again penniless. After beating himself up for awhile, SWIM was in the hole again. He was convinced he was suffering from a psychological addiction, felt depressed when not under the influence of some kind of stimulant, and really just felt like shit in general. He believes the Adderall was the only thing that got him through the times when snow wasnt available.

Yesterday (Monday), SWIM was sober and felt fine. He was once again convinced that he could control his habits and had done a fine job of doing so so far. He received a hefty check and, while he wasnt craving it as he had done over the past week, decided he would get a couple of grams. He went to his connection and they bought a gram. One gram turned into two, then three, then four...SWIM, friend A and friend B did all of it that afternoon. He also bought a roll. SWIM saved about a quarter G (I might also add this stuff was PURE. No cut. The supplier supposedly gets it straight from Columbia, which I'm more than ready to believe based on the quality.) That is, until today.

SWIM fucked up ROYALLY today. He had a falling out with one of his best buddies (Totally SWIMs fault, and SWIM hates himself for it.) SWIMs stockpile of substances included around 125mg of snow, his roll, and two 30mg Adderall XRs. SWIM went all out. In a desperate attempt to feel ok again, SWIM popped his roll, shot every grain of the snow, and then in an experimental effort to get more shot both Adderall pills (I'd rate the feeling a 2/5). SWIM hadnt shot anything for the past month and had planned to never do so again. He was fully aware combining so many stimulants was dangerous but had little regard for his own safety at this point. He wanted only to feel normal again, which he did for about an hour.

This happened about 5 hours ago. It is now 9:56 PM. SWIM is now feeling his worst for a number of reasons. He is coming down off of his earlier craze, has track marks on his arm again, knows he wont be sleeping tonight in spite of being exhausted and aching all over, and is, for lack of a better description, frightened. Scared because he knows he has overdone it and does not want this to become a lifelong battle for freedom from snow. He enjoys it, and does not want to stop, but knows he needs to. He is currently considering quitting, but has not made it final.

Throughout this whole ordeal, SWIMs attitude towards his drug use was constantly changing. Sometimes he felt like it would be okay, sometimes he felt that he would stop no problem, sometimes he felt he should stop but couldn't...and sometimes he just wanted to withdraw and forget everything.

So SWIM comes to you all asking your opinions...is SWIM suffering from addiction? Or does he just have weak willpower? SWIM always believed that it didn't become a problem unless you WANT to stop and find you can't, but he believes now he is mistaken...very, very mistaken...

Please respond ASAP.

[chinpokomaster]

SWIM finds that, the craving doesn't really kick-in until he's somewhere he knows he can buy it and use it, such as in a pub, but when the craving does take hold, it's often too strong an urge to resist no matter what finances are like.

For SWIM it's not only the feeling but the whole process of doing a line and the suspense between snorting them. Each line is less satisfying than the last, starting with the first line of the night, but, regardless, once it all goes, he wishes he had one more line left to do.

The biggest barrier to get over for SWIM is knowing that, once he's started, it WILL run out, so he tries to prepare himself for it mentally before he thinks of buying any. The only way he can avoid buying some is to simply not think about it and focus really hard on doing something else (not another drug, another activity :P).

[Joe Rogan]

SWIM thinks you have an addiction and needs to try to get away. SWIMs friend also is struggling right now but SWIM helps her and makes sure she doesnt spend to much on snow and if she does SWIM is there to help her not keep doing it. Just find a friend that is willing to help and SWUM can get over it.

[RaverHippie]

Make a list. List the positives and the negatives for whatever activity SWIY may feel addictive tendencies toward. If the positives HONESTLY outweigh the negatives then no problem?

This is a completely made-up theory by me-not a tried and proven practice

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim just doesn't understand why something that isn't physically addictive is so difficult for some to put down.Just stop using it!

[Ikku]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Swim just doesn't understand why something that isn't physically addictive is so difficult for some to put down.Just stop using it!

dopamine reinforcement. there's no physical withdrawal symptoms but there's maaaaad cravings.

[DeadGeneral]

Well...SWIM's connection called him earlier offering to front him a gram of pure snow. SWIM accepted, got home with it, took one hit out of it...then immediately thought to himself "What the hell am I doing?" SWIM put the bag down and hasn't looked at it since. He is unsure what he wants to do with it. He enjoys the high, but fears the aftermath.

[moda00]

Originally Posted by DeadGeneral

Well...SWIM's connection called him earlier offering to front him a gram of pure snow. SWIM accepted, got home with it, took one hit out of it...then immediately thought to himself "What the hell am I doing?" SWIM put the bag down and hasn't looked at it since. He is unsure what he wants to do with it. He enjoys the high, but fears the aftermath.

oh my god, been there done that.. swim always said yes too.. please be careful.. am glad swiy's evaluating and reconsidering the situation, but any connection who will call and offer to front something knows that swiy's starting to get hooked in one way or another, or is trying to make it so, trying to get you to see him as a friend or a necessary part of your life (why do credit companies inundate you with offers for credit cards? because they have something to gain- you get hooked on credit and you pay them tons of interest and they make money of your struggling). I'm not a fan of the "evil drug dealer" stereotype, but with coke, heroin, etc. there are a few people who will go out of their way to contact you (at which point it becomes very hard to say no) and this to me is way out of line for the dynamic that should exist between dealer and customer, especially among substances with such psychological or physical addiction potential..

[DeadGeneral]

SWIM was weak. He ended up banging the whole bag. While preparing the last shot, SWIM dropped the spoon and spilled it all on the carpet. Already having done two shots, SWIM was EXTREMELY high though feeling the comedown...he literally curled up in the fetal position, shoved his fist in his mouth and just sat there...about 10 minutes later, realizing his current situation and how pathetic he looked, SWIM has made the decision to stop. I thank all of you for your advice and support, it has definitely made a difference and given me that much more reason to lay off. He is confident, for now, that he will be able to break his habit, but judging by past experience tomorrow may not be as easy.

SWIM's friend is over. They took some DXM a little while ago and SWIM is feeling it coming on. I just started a topic in the DXM forum should anybody be interested. I'll keep everyone updated.

Thanks to everybody.

[moda00]

Swim went through that with heroin and cocaine, mainly speedballs, but these are both strong drugs. She felt she wanted to use, would be happy using for as long as she could fathom (which honestly wasn't too far into the future) and didn't think she'd be an addict as long as she'd want to use. When she reached the point of feeling withdrawal for the first time and running out of money, she realized with despair that she was royally fucked.

Since swiy is so early in his coke habit, swiy would encourage him to stop now, since it really does seem to have caused some problems, no matter how exciting and good the feeling, is that worth losing respect, losing a job, being in debt, being desperate, losing friends, feeling like shit? The bad feelings get much more significant than the good, it's a matter of stopping before one gets to that point (of course I respect peoples' choice of substance, and some maybe even many people can do such drugs occasionally without problems at all.. but it seems clear from the description that the problems have started and can only get worse- some of us just cannot use these substances).

Deciding to stop a drug is hard when it is still fun in some way, even despite bad effects.. it often takes getting to a place where the good has totally disappears and one is using because they have to to feel normal, or because they cannot stop themselves. Then again, at this point, one often has a long term battle ahead, and maybe have destroyed relationships, credit ratings, and one's own mind and body. Swim's had three suicide attempts, a heart attack/OD, and a DUI before she got her shit (relatively) straightened out- so if swiy's posting this and rereads it maybe he'll realize that things are headed in a bad direction- I sincerely hope he is able to stop now, but of course we all have to learn our own lessons, and some (swim included) have seemed destined to learn the hard way.

I'm sure there are some good threads in Addiction and Recovery, but swim finds that if the substance is there she will do it- both physically there, and potentially there. One often has to change phone numbers and social circles, own up about the problem, and change their lifestyle, beliefs, schedule- many changes, it's not easy. But after all swim has gone through and has seen she can tell swiy is having a rough time and is glad he feels he can speak his mind and ask for help here. While swim doesn't like AA/NA approach (higher power, groups, etc.) there are many paths to recovery- swim's is the idea that she cannot use heroin or cocaine safely, that she now leads a life surrounded with other positive feelings- friendships, hobbies, helping others, school for the career she wants to pursue, art, journaling, exercise- it may sound cliche, but one can't simply take a chunk out of their life- they have to replace it with equal or better things.

It is always hard to stop destructive habits, but swim thinks that given the time frame it may be easier (not easy, but certainly easier, and certainly do-able) for swiy now than later down the path, when things are not so easy to fix. The process of learning about oneself and addiction is worth it- it's not just stopping the drug, but making life changes and coming to terms with oneself face to face. Not pushing or recommending psychedelics, but in some cases ayahuasca (dmt and maoi to make orally active) and ibogaine/iboga have helped with addiction, and in swim's case therapy with a trusted therapist, just someone to help process things, has been essential. Each person must find what works, though.

Much love and good wishes your way!!

[chinpokomaster]

The problem for addiction with SWIM is, you can tell yourself "I'll only do it when I want to, not when the drug wants me to", but the drug TELLS you when you want to.

[Fight Club]

DG - I had to re-read your original post to realize that SWIY is shooting cocaine. NIK was an occaisional and recreational user of cocaine from 1980 until 2002 . . . 22 years. He only snorted it, never bought it and never carried it. He would do a line or two when offered by friends, and would occaisionally "chip in" when someone else bought a bag for an evening of festivities. Some years he did none; other years he used 3-4 times tops.

Fast forward to 2002. NIK used some exceptionally good coke at a party, and decided that he wanted some for himself, so he bought a bag the next weekend, and nearly every weekend after that for a few months. He remembered watching a friend shoot coke back in 1977, and became obsessed with the idea of doing the same.

NIK learned how to inject by reading guides and posts on websites like this one; then practicing with saline. He experimented with injecting coke the first time in October 2002, and initially was only doing it once every 4-5 weeks, but he would always buy an 8-ball, and would never stop until it was gone.

In March of 2003 he found a source for high-quality C through a SoCal friend, bought ounces at a time, and started shooting regularly. He had several mini-seizures, then an "overdose" that left him "dead" on the side of the road. After being revived by EMTs, he quit using cocaine for 18 months, but never gave up drinking or other drug use. Eventually he relapsed, and struggled with his addiction until March 2006 when he entered a 28-day rehab.

NIK has had a few slips in the last 2 years, but is currently 8 months clean (from all mind altering substances) and 7 months before that, excepting a few days in July '07. He has not yet lost his health, family, job, money, friends, driving privileges . . . or life. Why do I say not yet? NIK knows that if he returns to an IV coke habit all of those things are in his future.

Why am I telling you this story? It is hard for me to give you specific advice, because everyone is different. But NIK has told me that he recognizes some of his thoughts and feelings in SWIYs words, and thought I better share his story before you went down the same path. Your concerns are legitimate and the things SWIY is feeling have nothing to do with weakness or willpower . . .

FC

[hooo]

SWIM went through a similar experience, she started doing it every day, bingeing day and night and after only four months she was totally screwed up, ended up in rehab, spent the holidays there.... for SWIM it got out of control immediately, it depends on each individual how long it takes to get addicted, but SWIY will get addicted eventually, so try to stop before it´s too late. SWIM is still struggling to get off the blow, and trust SWIM, that struggle sucks.

[flashlight]

SWIM is using about 0.3-0.5g almost every Saturday last year.
SWIM skipped few weekends without any problems, and SWIM never used it because he needed, only when he wanted.

Does somebody here knows people who do it that way for years and what are the consequences of that frequency of use?

SWIM never sensed any kind of urge or desire to do it if the surrounding atmosphere is not as he likes it when he uses it.

What amounts and frequency of use is common to develop a problem?

[allyourbase]

thats not excessive usage in swim's opinion, but it is regular usage. still, swim has seen relatively small groups of people (2-4) burn through ounces in a weekend. inability to control ones intake is the marquis point of "problem usage" with any substance. long term problems are the usual for any stimulant, aside from a form of chronic sinusitis unique to cocaine users, vascular problems being the hallmark in "usual" long term effects with stimulants.

[kinai]

swim has kind of been wondering the same thing too lately. Because she tells me that she's not at the point that she wants to stop.. she knows it eats into her bank account, but right now it's not a problem and she likes the high and what not. Also swim knows it's a problem in the fact that she's chasing highs because of the rut (depression in a sense) she's in right now, but like swiy said, swiy doesn't know if it's an addiction unless swiy actually WANTS to stop. Obviously, it won't last forever - the high making up for what's really missing in life... but I guess that's where people (in general) go wrong.. when they stop using for recreation and start using for compensation...

[UpAllNiteOCXTC]

This question could have a broad spectrum of answers.

Swim believes drug use is a problem when swiy's bank account is empty, swiy's personality and physical features are different, swiy needs to keep increasing the dosage, swiys body chemically needs the drug to function.

Moderation is key but some drug use causes internal deterioration.

Swim likes to alternate substances to avoid addiction. Switch from one class of drugs to another if need be.