X-Heroin addict now concerned about amphetamine addiction & withdrawals

[miffy]

Hi all. . .

I've not posted on here for a couple of years, so apologies if I've put this in the wrong place, I think the forum's changed a bit.

The reason I've not posted for a while is because I've been completely okay with swim's consumption. He had a heroin habit for a good few years, finally sorted it out around the time I stopped posting, and since then hasn't used smack, although he's been indulging (sometimes quite a lot) in everything else.

I'm a little concerned now, though, because SWIM appears to be getting a bit of a speed habit. Classy, innit?

Let me point out here that when I say 'speed', I mean amphetamine, aka 'base', the sticky stuff, not meth.

Anyway, SWIM met a girl a few weeks ago, and started hanging out with her. Turns out she's hitting about a gram a day of the stuff, and SWIM, always up for anything dodgy, was in there like a rat up a drainpipe. Turns out, "Got any needles" is a particularly effective chat-up line with SWIM. . .

So, SWIM's been doing the stuff every day for about 3 or 4 weeks now (and pretty much all night, too, speed being speed). Probably getting through about £XXX daily, injecting, spreading that over maybe 3 hits. Although he did spend the weekend hitting lots of charlie, and I know that's not dissimilar, pharmacologically.

He's not had a hit for about 18 hours now, and is just realising that he seems to be getting a bit of a habit. Hence the 'Oops'.

He's not curled in a small ball, crying and shitting himself (as he spent so many happy times when trying to come off smack), but he's definitely not feeling comfortable. He's probably only been sleeping 2 hours out of 24 for some time, is getting sweaty, achy, dry skin. Physically uncomfortable but not really in any pain. But there's a definite mental craving going on, and SWIM's not got much of a self-control gene. Basically, SWIM thinks he needs to stop this now, before he can't. It took him 2 years to get off smack, and he doesn't want another habit.

I guess I'd like to know what to expect? What's it like trying to come off speed? What's withdrawal like, and how long does it last? Are there any drugs that make a decent substitute for quitting (Used methodone, then subutex with the smack, though quit cold in the end). There seems to be lots of info out there about meth, but not so much about base. Any information or experiences would be appreciated. SWIM's going to go and have a hit, and he's going to try and make it his last one. . .

[cyndi]

The good news is that getting off speed isn't as horrible as smack. The uncomfortable feelings will pass probably in about a week. Most of it is mental addiction which can be very uncomfortable to put it mildly. I don't know of a drug that eases it honestly but the feelings will pass if swiy abstains more and more each day. Self control is tough for swim too so she hears you. She has been addicted to everything from adderall to meth and meth is a bit tougher to get off of...she thinks the base may not be as difficult. Again that is her experience.

Yes it is common to trade one addiction for another as it has happened to swim as well without her realizing it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

babe I lick your smarts

[cyndi]

Swim did speed daily for about 15 years off and on. She finally broke the cycle about a year ago. She was just sick of speed. She isn't haven't many cravings, it has been about 9 months since she had her last hit. For some it is nearly impossible to get away from. It is possible though.

[stoneinfocus]

the best way coming over something for swim is not relating anything to the substance at all and trying, even while under the influence of a substance and indulging in it, finding something different in life, that he likes more than it and would most likely give him more than this in return out of life.

It´s easy then and he doesn´t have to spent the whole energy on controlling a habit and the stuff one need´s, in fact, indulging in the stuff helps in polarizing the coming-up interests and the substance use wears off automatically in this way.(`heterolytic dissociation´ in chemistry terms, so to say)

As such, he usually never controls his use, moreso his favours and indulges to the maximum into what he wants, which will more and more to an lesser extent be a substance-habit.

I don´t think that amphetamine causes brain-damages and the reason why someone´s depressive after many years of quitting the use.

Like savingJeanniB´s aunt, the situation or a clinical depression is relating to the use, not a habit or addiction as a desease itself, but self-medication in this sense.

It´s just harder to see , when being influenced constantly by the "misuse"-threat of society and thought-to-be professional advisors.

Oh- and BTW -swim was telling within the first dose of GHB from the health-shop, his longings for having something in his nose/having the feeling of speed again, were completely quenched.

As GHB and speed do both act as growth-hormone secretagogues and swim knows for sure, this is the ultimate well-being drug of body´s own arsenal, probably this is what one´s seeking?

A)Speed -> GH-release, B)Action -> GH-release, C) GH-release -> well-being, A+B+C-> well-being

Plus GHB has a calming effect so GHB -> GH -> well-being and chillin´ and no cravings, to secondary speed/coke effects.

Benzos do possess this action also, so it´s the same without taking benzos with their disadvantages,... swim knows, this is a new aspect in explaining the action of withdrawl, but it all makes so much sense and is so simple, that maybe there lies some truth in these aspects.

[miffy]

Hey all. . . many thanks for all the replies, and sorry it's taken so long to check back in. . . .my internet access is intermittent (and I mainly seem to post when I feel I've got a problem. . . soz, selfish, I know).

Well, swim is a total pea-brained, drooling muppet. . . swim managed to get off the speed by getting the girl out of his life, and by the simple method of stopping hitting base. . . easy, no? Except that swim took the edge off the cravings by hitting brown, instead. . .

If anyone's seen my previous threads, they'll know that I finally managed to get clean from heroin about 2 years ago, after maybe 10 years on (and off, and on. . . ).

Since then, swim has never assumed that he's out of the woods, never assumed he's an 'ex-addict'. . . . has always known it's there, hiding around the corner. . .

Swim sorta expected that he'd need to be on the alert if anything went wrong in his life - emotional traumas always seemed to provide the necessary excuse for relapse, and swim was aware of his tendancy to create traumas, just to justify a relapse. . .

Swim wasn't really prepared for this, however. Other than the base problem - which, with hindsight, swim could probably have dealt with, just needed to get a bloody grip! - other than this, swim had no real problems in his life. Okay, it wasn't peachy, but swim wasn't crying himself to sleep at nights. . .

Swim somehow managed to tell himself that he could hit heroin every day for a couple of weeks, and wouldn't get a habit. . . and anyone who's come off brown knows how quickly their body embraces a new habit. . .

Swim is now awaiting a subutex referral, buying methodone to try to reduce. . . intermittently doing well. . . and intermittently doing stupid things like last night - when swim, after having only methodone for 3 days, went out and bought a bag of brown and a stone, hit em both together. . .

Swim can't deny that a part of this behaviour stems from the fact that it's a great buzz. . . part of it from swim's needle-fetishising. (Horribly freudian). . . but really - why? WHY on earth is swim in this position again? There's no need for it!

I'm not really expecting answers, I s'pose. . . I think the only real reason may be swim's fundamental weakness of character.

Swim is enjoying it at the moment, but swim is still trying to stop. . . ht eproblem is that swim can remain determined for 23 hours & 55 mins of the day - but it only takes those other 5 mins. . .

This drug use is impacting on other areas of swim's life (and those of his friends) which swim would very much like to keep clean. . . the only positive aspect to this all is that swim is determined to stop - he can remember how utterly dark & hellish the habit became, and the effort it took to stop. . . swim is determined not to let it reach that point again. It took swim many years to reach this state of determination before, only a couple of months this time. . .

Swim already knew that there could never be such a thing as a 'one-off' hit. . . that he had to live zero-tolerance, or not at all. . . swim, without even really thinking about it, let down all the barriers and let it in.

Swim is furious and disgusted with himself. But swim is not going to let this emotion encourage or justify his self-harming heroin use. . .

Thanks again to everyone for their support over the last few years. . . if swim has learned anything from this, it's that you can never let your guard down. . .

It's such a shame, though - swim had been sorting his life out, big career change, maybe even thinking that he was sorted enough that it'd be fair and reasonable to look for a girlfriend. . . Guess not. . .

Ho hum. . . to be continued. . . swim is not going to give up. . . but he's tired of it. . . he wants to not have to worry constantly about money, scoring, veins, bla, bla. . . he wants to be fit, have a normal life, a partner, have sex for god's sake! Have an appitite. A holiday, without having to worry about how to score when he gets there. . .

Sorry. . . rant over.

Swim is going to get this sorted out, though. Any words of advice (or recrimination!) always valued deeply.

And loadsa warmth to anyone out there in a similar situation. . .

[~lostgurl~]

Here is some data to back up stoneinfocus' post {care of MrG}


The effects of acute and repeated gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) and cocaine administration on D1 and D2 dopamine receptor mRNA expression were examined using in situ hybridization histochemistry in different rat brain structures rich in GHB receptors. Six hours after a single GHB administration (500 mg/kg IP), an increase in D1 and D2 mRNA expression was observed in almost all regions examined; whereas, acute cocaine injection (20 mg/kg IP) had no effect. Repeated exposure to GHB (500 mg/kg IP twice daily) for 10 days, followed by a 14-h withdrawal period, induced increasing effects on D1 and D2 dopamine receptor mRNA expression, similar to those caused by chronic treatment with cocaine (20 mg/kg IP once a day). These effects of GHB and cocaine on dopamine receptor mRNA expression could be a consequence, for both compounds, of the modulation of dopaminergic activity; thus, supporting the benefit of GHB in cocaine substitution therapy.

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v2.../1395390a.html



1 Plasma amphetamine and growth hormone levels have been measured in eight normal and twenty-six narcoleptic subjects following a single dose of (+)-amphetamine (20 mg) or (-)-amphetamine (20 mg) by mouth. 2 Peak plasma levels and the shape of the plasma amphetamine-time curve were similar with both isomers in normal and narcoleptic subjects. 3 In most normal subjects both (+)-and (-)-amphetamine (20 mg) caused an increase in the plasma concentration of growth hormone. The two isomers were approximately equipotent in this respect. Neither (+)- nor (-)-amphetamine (20 mg) caused an increase in plasma growth hormone concentration in narcoleptics. 4 Following amphetamine (30 mg), two of six narcoleptic subjects had an increase in plasma growth hormone concentration. 5 Levodopa (250 mg) with (-)-alpha-methyldopa hydrazine 25 mg (Sinemet) by mouth, caused a rise in plasma growth hormone concentration in most normal subjects. The magnitude of the Sinemet-induced rise in plasma growth hormone concentration in narcoleptics was less than in normal subjects.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1429067

[Ontherooftops]

Remember,

SWIY is stronger than they think. SWIY is not inherintly evil or weak.

If SWIY thinks they are stronger than the drugs, they are.

If SWIY believes each day will be easier than the last, it will be. If SWIY can make it one day, they can make it their whole life.

Dont let the demons play their tricks, because they will try, but SWIY is better than them, stronger than them, mother nature made sure of that when she made SWIY.

SWIY has a purpose, SWIY will make the world better, even if its only in small invisible ways they will ripple outward and become great beyond our own perceptions.