Drug info - How long after last benzo, might SWIM take a GHB Dose

[kummin123]

I dont know where this post really belonged so I posted it here. Just kicked my longtime valium use, coldturkey. Ate my last 10mg's around 10.00 this morning (GMT+1).

My question is, how long after this would you recon it be safe to take a medium(1.5g) dose of GHB??

Sinc. Kummin

[MrG]

Because this was originally posted in the wrong forum there was no reply within a timeframe that would have applied to the scenario as stated.

With that in mind it is still important to address this question as combining GHB with a benzodiazepine is *not* recommended due the fact that both are CNS (Central Nervous System) suppressors and both affect the GABA receptors.

Due to the physiological differences between patients and the broad scope for marked differences in elimination of benzodiazepines from the body, even down to the level of fat in meals consumed, it is not advisable to apply a "one size fits all" policy of advice in this regards.

The best advice to offer would be to ask the healthcare practitioner responsible for prescribing the valium. If one were to be wary of specifying GHB as the substance of concern, it could be said that one enquire as to how soon it would be safe to consume a large amount of alcohol following cessation of the prescribed benzo.

Either that or wait a week.

[thomasj]

You can use any sort of benzo even under the influence of ghb. They usually use 1st line treatment of the seizure part of the od with ghb. You may think that this has an contradictory effect because, with most other drugs that can be true. Im perscribed xanax btw and swim knows georgia homeboy quite well. Don't take my word for it though, look it up.

thomasj added 14 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

"Convulsions from GHB can be treated with diazepam or lorazepam, even though these are also CNS depressants they are GABAA agonists, whereas GHB is primarily a GABAB agonist, so the benzodiazepines do not worsen CNS depression as much as might be expected." couldn't have said it better my self.

[MrG]

Firstly, please don't quote wikipedia articles as sources of facts. It is, after all, an amateur undertaking, not a scientific journal.

Secondly, the phrase "as much as might be expected" pretty much negates the idea that benzo's can be safely chewed by the handful whilst loaded on G.

Thirdly, harm reduction policy around here tries to discourage risky behaviour and, whatever wikipedia might say, GHB is a CNS suppressor and so are benzodiazepines which means that they *will* have a combined effect but, because we can't be there measuring SWIY's substance consumption and monitoring his physiology, we cannot accurately predict who will have a problem with a GHB and benzo combination and who won't. So we say don't.

[thomasj]

So, your the all knowing god of ghb or something? Why do you fail to realize the whole point this thread was started? He said something along the lines of just stopping valuum so, that would leave me to believe he wound't be under the influence of a benzo. So, if thats risky behavior the same can be said for taking any illegal drug right? So, don't patronize yourself. As far as wiki goes this site even advertises it on the upper left hand corner tab. Im not saying it has the most reliable source but, this is such common knowledge it's on wiki. Type it in to google and you will find hundreds of pdf files from various well known scientists and the coadministrations with benzos. Okay and for people reacting different to valuum and xanax that may be true but, they are also the most perscribed anti-anxiety medications in the world and, if you can't tollerate a benzo you damn well shouldn't do ghb.

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[raven3davis]

Best thing learned from this thread......GHB is called "Georgia home boy"

If you are a long time user, SWIM is guessing 10mg isn't a big deal. The GHB might help with the withdrawals if you have them but certainly shouldn't be a replacement for valium. SWIM would save the GHB for the withdrawals (if you get them). In all likely hood SWIYOU would have been fine taking the GHB a few hours later but in the name of harm reduction, SWIM would recommend waiting until at least the next day since valium has a long half life.

[MrG]

Originally Posted by thomasj

So, your the all knowing god of ghb or something?

It's "you're" (you are) not "your" (ownership) and no, I am not the all knowing god of GHB, I am somebody who is trying to ensure that questions relating to matters of health are dealt with appropriately.

Originally Posted by thomasj

Why do you fail to realize the whole point this thread was started? He said something along the lines of just stopping valuum so, that would leave me to believe he wound't be under the influence of a benzo.

"something along the lines of "and "would lead me to believe" are a little too vague a stance to take when asked something as direct as whether it was safe to consume GHB after recently stopping valium (as opposed to valuum). More specifically, if I posted a reply "something along the lines of" or "would lead me to believe" style, I might have stated that he'd *probably* be fine, but this is something that would not necessarily be the case whatever I "was led to believe". Fact of the matter is that he had taken his last valium only a short time before posting his question, does this mean that you "are led to believe something along the lines of" once the tablet goes in the mouth it is both instantly absorbed and eliminated, thus resulting in your "belief" that he wouldn't have had *any* effects from his recently consumed benzo?

Well, what is valium?

A benzodiazepine with anticonvulsant, anxiolytic, sedative, muscle relaxant, and amnesic properties and a long duration of action. Its actions are mediated by enhancement of GAMMA-AMINOBUTYRIC ACID activity. It is used in the treatment of severe anxiety disorders, as a hypnotic in the short-term management of insomnia, as a sedative and premedicant, as an anticonvulsant, and in the management of alcohol withdrawal syndrome. (From Martindale, The Extra Pharmacopoeia, 30th ed, p589)

In that there are indeed issues of concern relating to concomitant use of GHB and valium, what do you believe is the best approach to take given that this is an online forum and not a medical specialists examination room?

Originally Posted by thomasj

So, if thats risky behavior the same can be said for taking any illegal drug right?

Erm, right (why would you think I would say otherwise?).

Originally Posted by thomasj

So, don't patronize yourself.

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word patronize. I might be accused of patronising others, but I'm afraid I cannot patronise myself.

Originally Posted by thomasj

As far as wiki goes this site even advertises it on the upper left hand corner tab. Im not saying it has the most reliable source

So why quote it is an authoritative reply? Quote the relative scientific journal or research paper by all means but don't blind quote Wikipedia please. BTW the wiki you are referring to as being promoted by D-F is this forum's own Drugs-Wiki not Wikipedia.

Originally Posted by thomasj

Type it in to google and you will find hundreds of pdf files from various well known scientists and the coadministrations with benzos. Okay and for people reacting different to valuum and xanax that may be true but, they are also the most perscribed anti-anxiety medications in the world and, if you can't tollerate a benzo you damn well shouldn't do ghb.

Type it in to google and you will find hundreds of pdf file from various sources that state a lot of different issues concerning GHB and benzo use, we are simply dealing with harm reduction here, not taking on specific medical cases and acting as personal physicians. Oh and just because a drug may be the most prescribed (as opposed to perscribed) anti-anxiety medication in the world does not in any friggin way absolve it of any side-effects or long term issues!

Finally, to state that if you can't tolerate (as opposed to tollerate) a benzo you damn well shouldn't do GHB is just immature and does not bring anything to the conversation other than act as a fine representation of the poster's ignorance.



P.S. Raven, nobody and I mean *nobody* calls GHB "Georgia Home Boy" or any of these contrived media labels. Well, nobody who actually knows anything about GHB anyway.

[thomasj]

alright thats fine this is stupid I just got pissed the way you came off to me with that superiority complex. Noone who knows aything calls it georgia home boy well, if you location is correct im sure most people there don't even know where georgia is. As far as me not knowing anything hell, that may be true too but, I do know enough to end this right now its just pretty shitty how were both arguing about something that may or may not happen like most of the hypothetical threads on here... and with that, have a good day.

thomasj added 35 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

btw Raven, it's ironic how you were talking about withdrawls of ghb. SWIM is getting them pretty bad right now and the xanax is not working. Ive looked around and the addiction therapists say that it's not the ideal way to handle it. Im trying out 800 mg Neurontin right now with 50mg diphenhydramamine. Maybe if that doesn't work ill try upping my dosage of zoloft to 100mg and take a weak reversible maoi inhibitor like gingko or something.

[Alfa]

Yeah, we're all backwards in Europe. lol.

Please realize that we are not talking about light discussion here, but about combinations which can lead to serious injury. Over 150.000 people read these forums every month and your post may affect their behaviour. Therefore you can not be as careless as above.

And if you are going to use a extremely weak MAOI like ginkgo, then you might as well use the MAOI effects of chocolate. Makes no sense to me.

[kummin123]

Thanks for all the input regarding this. However of course its very individual, SWIMs now been able to gauge his GBL vs benso use quite well, via very careful and slow experimentation. He also studied quite well the half-lifes of diazepam and the halflifes of its active metabolites. And indeed they do exist in the body for extremely long time, so it def. is not something to take lightly. (up to 100 hours of active metabolites, for diazepam, that suprised us, so as you stated in first post mrG, waiting a week could def. be needed for certain ppl)

I wont discuss SWIMs dosages or how long in between he actually waits between benso and GBL, since its so very individual so its of no help to anyone anyway.

The harm-reduction attitude of this site is extremely appreciated.

Plur!

[thomasj]

Alright Alfa, I understand...see my reputation dropping like flies. I don't want anybody to intentionaly do anything with mixing drugs but, if you are persribed a benzo like I am it's hard for swim to go cold turkey but, indeed, it's the best and most responsible way it should be done.

About the weak maoi yeah, your right but, I have to take something that has a shorter half life than the ssri I take, zoloft and so I can SAFELY space them out.

[Panthers007]

If one is addicted physically to a benzodiazepine-class drug, like Valium(diazepam), which can happen in as little as 2 - 3 weeks of taking a medically prescribed dosage - one should not just go 'Cold Turkey.' One should go to their doctor and have the doctor taper the dosage off carefully. Abrupt cessation of benzodiazepines can and will cause a withdrawl that is far worse than that produced by alcohol. And can kill one.

[kummin123]

very true Indeed. But Swim know his body quite well, he's eaten valium 20-30mg / dag, for many years. And quit cold-turkey cuz of running out of pills a few weeks before next refill, to many times to count. So he knows he will stand it normally, just with physical and esp. psychic agony. But with the help of GHB he managed to gauge this, so he could be without the psycic agony atleast, until next refill(every 3 weeks). Thye physical dangers still exists, but as I said he have done this many times before. Only a few worries existed about GHB possibly lower seizure-treshhold, but afai read, it does not. Not what causes epileptic seizures anyway. The GHB seizures that exists is a lil different.

And anyway now he has tappered down to a use of mebbe the third amount of
valium, all thanks to GHB. HE can know use it on a 3day on, 3 day off routine.

GHB truely does wonder for GAD and Social Phobia. It beats ANY medicine there is. And he's tried almost every SSRI, SNRI, neuroleptic, benso.. there is.
Feeling is like am for the first time in 10 years, the person that he was BEFORE the social anxiety started.

Of course the best is CBT, but thats a 3 years waiting period...

That became a long rant, anyway, he knew the dangers, he made a serious calculations on the risks and benefits, and went for it with old experience in hand. and it went well!

PLUR

[MrG]

Originally Posted by kummin123

GHB truely does wonder for GAD and Social Phobia. It beats ANY medicine there is. And he's tried almost every SSRI, SNRI, neuroleptic, benso.. there is.

By all accounts it certainly is, but therein lies the problem. People who consume GHB for treating anxiety are more likely to dose multiple times a day and this can lead to withdrawal problems that can be, under certain circumstances, as bad as benzo withdrawal.

[thomasj]

Benzo withdrawl is a real topic, I was perscribed Depakote(anti-convulsant,bi-polar med at higher doses indicated) and, if you ever decide to kick the habit talk to your doctor first. Swim had the unfortunate event of coming off them in county jail and, trust me you don't forget feeling like that but, im lucky to even be here now. Back then I was perscribed Temazepam for insomnia. hah well I could probably give you a list 50 long of meds I was perscribed. Today, just a vitamin b12 and zoloft.