Finding God

[veroner]

SWIM would be very interested to hear people's insight with regard
to finding god though experiencing hallucinogenic drugs SWIM has
felt the presence of god while on the these hallucinogens has anyone
the same ?

[ReAlitY-HoLds-NonE]

Well that all depends on what 'god' is... personally SWIM feels that he had, but that 'god' ,or, the supreme intelligence, was JUST out of reach for his mind... on LSD, he chased 'it' but 'it' was a fingertip out of reach. On mushrooms, he saw it in everything around him, but not the objects themselves, he saw 'it' in what the objects werent, he saw it in the relationships between universal laws, such as gravity, ligh and matter, and he saw it in the relationships between people, and relationships and process's of his mind in all... SWIM studies biology and chemistry, with philosophy and psychology at A level, combine these with his experiences and he does know, for certain, that there is intelligence behind the veil of reality...

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Interesting Look On Life
	exacly, nicely put

[veroner]

I'm so relived to fine someone who shares SWIM's sentiments on the matter
what i felt was to real to put down to a trick on the mind from the said
substance it has changed SWIM's live for ever and now no that there is
much to be learnt and there is much beyond this mortal live thankyou

[car-ramrod]

First off, swim has had many psychadelic experiences and many hours spent pondering and philosophizing on psychadelics but he doesnt claim to be tim leary or anything. Anyway just wanted to say that swim doesnt count out the possibility of there being a diety/entity much more intelligent than ourselves but highly doubts it. The farther we go with science the more stuff that used to get explained away with the supernatural is now explained rationally. I mean just think about it, a gigantic consciousness somewhere out in the universe or outside of it? Not too rational in my eyes. Science is coming close to explaining NDEs and OOBEs too, by wearing a helmet with small electric waves going to a certain side of the brain an OOBE can be produced. Also theyve found the brain can even be tricked by showing a video of yourself and touching you with a rod or something like that. Ill get the links to the page which has alot of NDE/OOBE experiments.


Also, if there is a spirit, why did we experience nothing before birth? My guess is after death there will be the same as before birth.

[car-ramrod]

http://discovermagazine.com/search?S...ath+experience


Just read into some of those, theyre good experiments. Anyway another thing to chew on, if you have a soul that is immaterial which produces your consciousness and it isnt your brain that produces consciousness, how come your consciousness can be extremely altered by taking drugs which are in the physical realm and are material?

[psyche]

I think what is confusing about the soul/material thing is rather the relationship between them two than the question about whether there is a different realm for the soul to exist. I think it's arbitrary to think of the soul in the terms of physical side of it. It is your brain that produces the experience, or rather the continuum of events. From example when you stare at sun(which you should never do), the chemical reactions taking place in the sun produce light that reaches your eyes and triggers some events in your brain. Now the whole experience of you seeing sun is as much dependable on the chemical reactions in the sun as it is on the chemical reactions in your brain. Both are needed, and it's the interaction between the both. You could also count in to the process the reasons that led you to stare at the sun, and the reasons that led the sun to form etc etc, there are no clear lines to draw. Clear lines are drawn only for reasons of practicality, so that we can use words to describe some events or objects to communicate.

Ok got a bit carried away but the point was that it's not reasonable to say that one triggers another. They co-exist. There is a phenomenon we call consciousness that is very different and not really comparable to the physical world. If we are talking about that phenomenon, we shouldn't be thinking about where it could exist in terms of physical reality. One could say that the consciousness exists between the physical things. Ofcourse a lot of them are needed to interact in a very complicated way to produce a consciousness as high as brain does. It's like you'd never expect a seemingly continous, smooth voice of a car to be produced by single explosions. At least that's what I wondered when I was a kid. The same things applies to the brain. There are about 10 billion neurons interacting at a quite high speed.

[TMM]

I find the concept itself interesting (as well as some of the pathetic attempts from well-respected philosophers to explain it away), and SWIM plans to give some thought to the possibility of divine coherence for his next psychedelic experience, but as far as I'm concerned at the moment, if anything that could be called a god does 'exist', then it does so in such a way that it makes no difference whether it exists or not.

If that makes sense.

As for prior psychedelic experience, SWIM has had mystical experiences, but never anything even remotely relating to a 'divine intelligence', which SWIM considers an oxymoron of sorts.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Definitely makes sense, sir. :)

[Lethargy]

SWIM has "found God" a few times, but primarily through living life and learning about reality where psychedelics and other substances play only a part.

Honestly the more he learns about nature, about the interweaving chemical and physical bonds that connect everything and about how matter tends to self-organize into coherent systems of life the more he appreciates the divine intelligence running through everything. He does not see "God" as a discrete entity or supernatural being but as the sum-total of the complexity and relationship of all existence, physical and metaphysical. Psychedelics help him get a feel for the metaphysical new-agey "energy vibrations" of reality and "God" whereas Science and just plain experiencing life help him get more in tune with the vast complexity of existence which blows his mind rather often.

Really drugs (psychedelics) and meditation give him a higher level of appreciation for life and existence and allow him to feel much more strongly and intensely his love for nature and the complexity of nature and technology. Without these experiences "God" still exists, but he tends to lose touch with the sense of wonder and joy that brings "God" or whatever you wish to call it into the forefront of his awareness.

Meditation and psychedelics seem to crack open his mind which closes up and tries to function on a habitual basis, ignoring everything not relevant to his immediate or near-future survival in regards to: food, shelter, companionship, sex. The desire to acquire and have these things gets in the way of appreciating them and appreciating just the raw splendor of existence. Ego-diminishing or destroying experiences do not in any way prevent him from survival but on the contrary enhance his enjoyment of the process of surviving and therefore make him more likely to take an active interest.

On some notable trips he has felt "presences" that in older times might have manifested as gods or spirits but he finds these completely different than the big G "God". These small gods or spirits or higher-vibrational entities exist as just more parts-of-the-whole shebang that we think of as "God" though they may have "better" or more "powerful" modes of existence than humanity.

[Salvinorin A]

In SWIM's opinion, finding a supernatural force when swiy is an atheist is pretty damn hard.

With tryptamines, his brain goes into a complete mindfuck at very high doses (swim has heard a theory that hallucinations are simply swiy's brain trying to make sense of all the neurotransmitters being in the wrong places....oversimplified...swim knows). This seems about right in higher doses...at first swim sees normal visuals...and then things get unbearably confusing. In dmt hyperspace, it's too intense to even understand what an entity is...but swim doesn't believe there are any...so he doesn't know what to expect.

On salvia...well...that just didn't happen...because of the ego destruction swiy wouldn't even know swim was communicating with someone (but that's just swim.....swim knows many that have communicated with entities on salvia).

Because SWIM is an atheist...this makes it infinitely harder for his brain to create something supernatural for him. But christ....those of you who do know....a DMT breakthrough is quite a miracle in itself.

[car-ramrod]

Well your brain/mind pretty much creates existence. It produces everything you experience. Im not gonna say well oh what is real and what isnt because who knows you cant answer that. But anyway, it just seems way back when, everything was explained away with "oh god did it" and now we have gotten so many processes explained rationally and I just expect a bright scientific future.

As far as death, all your processes shut down, everything, plus we didnt exist for an infinite amount of time before life, why would it be any different after?

[psyche]

but as far as I'm concerned at the moment, if anything that could be called a god does 'exist', then it does so in such a way that it makes no difference whether it exists or not.

Well said.

As far as death, all your processes shut down, everything, plus we didnt exist for an infinite amount of time before life, why would it be any different after?

We got somehow "stuck" with this body when we were born, why wouldn't it happen again? (ofcourse the use of a pronime 'we' or 'I' is nonsense, but used it anyway just to put it simply)

[I>A\/I>]

by Lethargy:
Honestly the more he learns about nature, about the interweaving chemical and physical bonds that connect everything and about how matter tends to self-organize into coherent systems of life the more he appreciates the divine intelligence running through everything. He does not see "God" as a discrete entity or supernatural being but as the sum-total of the complexity and relationship of all existence, physical and metaphysical

Right on, in my opinion.

There is a "personal" side to it, discoverable in meditation:
and at that level, though individualized manifestations,
"we are one".

which is pretty bitchin', I must say...

Gimmee hug...

[pillpopper96743]

DMT helped swim with this. He has met god or the divine all knowing being and others that are just as wise in an unknown realm that he cannot describe (mainly because he cannot remember much of the trip). All he knows is he had met god a couple of times but was not allowed to speak with him. We all just have to wait until that dreadful day comes where we die, then we can find out for ourselves what the almighty god and heaven looks like. Swim is guessing that death will be alot like an pcp, acid, or dmt trip. And just for the record im not an athiast and believe in god full-heartidly.