straight from cfo ---> calcium morphenate

[vile_audio]

hello i'm new here

been a bee since 99 but opiates aren't exactly swivyl's thing

so he throws himself at your mercy

does this sound plausible

extract dried poppy pods into dh2o

via the cooked flake method

filter very well

then this is where i am uncertain

should swivyl reduce the amount of dh20 before he attempts to preciptate?

once again excuse me if i missed something on the fuckin search engine i found a few t6hings here and there but thought maybe starting a new thread on this topic would clear up any confusion for future members


thank ya'll kindly!

[truth]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/ann....php?f=184&a=1

use SWIM instead of I, because SWIM is sure you would never partake in any illegal activities.

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . .

good truth there SWItruth . . .

In short the answer would be Yes. One can reduce the water content if one wishes to but there is not really too much need as the amount of CC needed to precipitate the alkaloid in question is the exact amount of the total soluble alkaloid in question.

Example: as one reduces the liquid one will notice precipitation starting to form. These are the alkaloids starting to solidify because of the reduced water content thus affecting the "saturation point". These are collective alkaloids and the start of CFO forming. If one wishes to precipitate the morphine out then it makes more sense to have a solely liquid solution before adding calcium carbonate to precipitate the morphine alone (CC targets the morphine molecule specifically but carries over with it a slight codeine taint). SWIM will post an exact "how to" here shortly just for convenience.

Hope this has helped

[vile_audio]

you are the man mr ninja lizard much gracias

swivyl says he understands ya know

so do I ;]

[vile_audio]

sorry for this double post but i couldn't find the edit button

gecko swiv read before you had stated that calcium carbonate could be used from supplements if relatively pure

and he assumes that morphine as a base won't precipitate at 9.1 ph unless its in the form of calcium carbonate

ie not naoh, koh, ammonium hydroxide etc.

swiv was advised elsewhere that the finely powdered plant material could be based with ammonium hydroxide 10% solution pulled into a warm np solvent

sep'd dried and gassed with hcl

wanna let swiv absorb some of your knowledge?

forever in debt to your priceless advice

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

Originally Posted by vile_audio

sorry for this double post but i couldn't find the edit button

gecko swiv read before you had stated that calcium carbonate could be used from supplements if relatively pure

and he assumes that morphine as a base won't precipitate at 9.1 ph unless its in the form of calcium carbonate

ie not naoh, koh, ammonium hydroxide etc.

swiv was advised elsewhere that the finely powdered plant material could be based with ammonium hydroxide 10% solution pulled into a warm np solvent

sep'd dried and gassed with hcl

wanna let swiv absorb some of your knowledge?

forever in debt to your priceless advice

Yes it can be done that way but not as easy or clean as the way which is coming in the Morphine making thread in this section.

"glassed with HCl" this means to make into a HCL salt. which is also very easy to do with the method one is about to explain in the other thread.

keep an eye on it, contribute as much as SWIyou can cos SWIM only has knowledge of and uses the CC technique which works well for him, which is why he is asking one to post it.

cheers

[vile_audio]

ah i 2 shay good buddy swivyl's got a lot of time on his hands these days

let him ask you before goes and gets carried away

is there anything about basing gently the dried plant biomass(pods,stems) with ammonium hydroxide

pullin into warm white gas

drying with baked epsom salts

filtering

then gassing with hcl

maybe recrystallized in isopropyl or ethyl alcohol

what he means is are any of these steps reagents potentially dangerous as far as destroying the desired compounds

as i understand and have told swivyl a few times is that morphine itself is prettystable and will tolerate a fair amount of acidifying/basing before any structural damage would take place

before swiv sets off if it is okay with swiyoubuddy!

could he submit his proposed workup for a preview incase there is something he missed?

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

The process of which SWIyou talk does indeed work. SWIM just prefers not to work with ammonium as there are safer and healthier ways. If SWIyou have a way then by all means post it up, SWIM is sure that SWIeveryone will want the information as they may not feel the same way about certain chemicals as SWII do.

SWIM has other stuff intended for the Morphine base thread he has already started.

Hope this has been of help

[vile_audio]

what would swimrgecko recommend as a base?

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

lime, calcium carbonate, calcium sulphate (not confirmed), etc

[vile_audio]

thank you kindly

swiyou scared swiv into gettin the pure CC so this is what someone who isn't might have done:

40pods ground up to fine powder added to 1L of dh20
brought up to 50 C for 2hrs
strained thru a wet wife beater then a funnel w/ charmin plug
calcium carbonate is added til ph9.1
allowed to sit for overnight
calcium morpehnate is filter out in the morning and rinsed with warm dh2o
calcium morphenate is placed in a beaker with about 50mls dh20
28% acetic acid is added dropwise until all the calcium morphenate dissolves
activated charcoal is added and bought up to almost boiling
filter out the charcoal and slowly evaporate the solution

-----------------------------------

this was swiv's foist attempt at this sort of thing and he owes most of his success to you mrcarinsurancespokesmen/ninja!

next time the base will be refluxed for two hours in glacial acetic acid then A/B extracted!

til then

[vile_audio]

shit is there an edit button?

i forgot to ask the above method the first one i mean would titrating the base to its corresponding acetate via acetic acid acetylate the morphine at all?

my guess is no thats why the suggested future write up was posted.

anxious to hear the gieco's word's upon this subject!!! ;]

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

Originally Posted by vile_audio

shit is there an edit button?

i forgot to ask the above method the first one i mean would titrating the base to its corresponding acetate via acetic acid acetylate the morphine at all?

my guess is no thats why the suggested future write up was posted.

anxious to hear the gieco's word's upon this subject!!! ;]

Yes acetic acid can be used as a step to acetylate position 6 alone in the morphine model. This will (depending on the saturation) acetylate either the majority or all of the morphine into 6MAM but usually acetylates a combination so that one is left with a mixture of 6mam and Morphine.

caution is required here. If there is any codeine taint present then one will also produce 6MAC (in a small taint only, but still worthy of note) which is highly toxic. It is also worthy of note that 6MAM is about 6 times the potency of morphine, so dosage caution is also required in a theoretical environment.

(6MAM = 6-monoacetyl morphine. As opposed to using acetic andrahyde which will acetylate both positions 3 and 6 in the morphine model making 3,6DAM or "diamorphine / diacetylmorphine / heroin" [the last 3 are all the same thing, just different names])

Hope this has been of help

[vile_audio]

any ways the ninja knows to rid the codiene completely

swiv's workin on an easy otc route to acetic anhydride

from glacial acetic acid he will share in the future

but in his opinion the 6mam is good enough

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

Heroin is deacetylated at position 3 by the body to become bioactive as 6MAM anyway.
This means that 6MAM is more efficient than 3,6DAM, is bioavailable quicker in the system, probably passes the BBB faster (though only slightly).

Ultimately 3,6DAM becomes 6MAM in the body as the active metabolite of 3,6DAM. In this way Heroin could be considered to be a "pro-drug" of sorts for 6MAM in the same way that Codeine is considered a pro-drug for Morphine.

Since acetic andrahyde is on the DEA watch list it would make more sense to use acetic acid and make 6MAM rather than use acetic andrahyde and make 3,6DAM if one were to theoretically go down this route of experimentation on lab animals.

Hope this has helped

[poppypreacher]

I wonder how the solubility of ca-morphenate in aqueous environment is.
In the references i read yet, about four parts of water per one part of opium are mentioned. This would mean, one litre of water can carry about 12.5 to 25 g of ca-morphenate, what is pretty much in my opinion.

The solubility of morphine in water at its isoelectric point at pH 9,1 is a widely available info:
In water at 20° C, 200mg morphine free base are soluble.
This amount rises with temperature and the total impurities, so its best to clean the solution as good as possible and to precipitate at a low temperature.

I also read, ethanol is better for precipitation than water, but i don't know the solubility of morphine in alcohols, unfortunately

Do some swimmers know?

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

Originally Posted by poppypreacher

I wonder how the solubility of ca-morphenate in aqueous environment is.

calcium morphinate is not water soluble. (except at temperature) which is why it will precipitate out "crash out, fall out".

Originally Posted by poppypreacher

The solubility of morphine in water at its isoelectric point at pH 9,1 is a widely available info:

correct. Morphine is water soluble in its alkaloidal form or salt form at almost any pH and almost any temperature as long as it does not exceed the limitations.

Originally Posted by poppypreacher

In water at 20° C, 200mg morphine free base are soluble.

Morphine is also readily soluble at higher rates than this and different temperatures also. This is easily found by the saturation point levels one has already provided in a few threads.

Originally Posted by poppypreacher

This amount rises with temperature and the total impurities, so its best to clean the solution as good as possible and to precipitate at a low temperature.

at what volume? SWIM has found much more morphine is soluble than 200mg even in only 100ml of water and less.

Originally Posted by poppypreacher

I also read, ethanol is better for precipitation than water, but i don't know the solubility of morphine in alcohols, unfortunately

Do some swimmers know?

ethanol extractions are possible as morphine is also soluble in alcohols but other alkaloids which are not water soluble can be carried over now because they are alcohol soluble. It is a bit of a trade off, higher volumes of unwanted alkaloids are carried over when an ethanol extraction is performed but the alcohol is also easier to evap off.

The type of extraction is dependent on personal preference and technical knowledge.

Hope this has helped

[poppypreacher]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

at what volume? SWIM has found much more morphine is soluble than 200mg even in only 100ml of water and less.

perhaps the water wasn't really pure and free ions bound to the morphine and made it partially soluble, but Swim thinks, this value (200mg/L) should be correct, cause its found nearly everywhere in pharmaceutical books and also at wikipedia:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Both morphine and its hydrated form (...) are sparingly soluble in water. In five liters of water, only one gram of the hydrate will dissolve.

Of course, its hard (impossible) to work exactly, because even distilled water contains small amounts of impurities and the accuracy of our ph-meters is +/- 0,1 pH at best...

To get the remaining morphine after precipitation, one had to use organic solvents for liquid-liquid extraction. But swim would give a fuck, he would evaporate the water and take the leftover dirty M orally, because no toxic stuff is used with swiys method.

Swim thinks about using some alcohol in precipitation step, cause he read that alcohols facilitates precipitation, but he is unsure how much of the M would remain in that case (of course he doesn't know at all exactly. Ones more, it looks like he has to find out himself)

[vile_audio]

very nice point of view sir preacher

lets modify this to a better way

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

Well if SWIwe put it a slightly different way,

Talk to any addict, they can tell SWIyou that they have hit up 2 "grey nurses" (100mg each Morphine Sulphate) in only 100units of water ina standard insulin syringe. SWIM has done this many times before.

Originally Posted by edit by the samurai

Well this is actually slightly wrong. SWIM would say 200 units would be closer because SWIM shared the spoon with his GF and they both usually come out with close to a full 100unit syringe

Wiki can be edited by almost anyone.

The next part they were talking about morphine in its base form, Morphine is extremely insoluble in a base form but VERY soluble in alkaloidal or salted forms.

Hope this has been of help

[poppypreacher]

Yes of course, Swim knows the morphine sulphate pills. In austria its also prescribted to addicted peoples as a substitute, in form of 100mg capsules, too.
But Swim talked about the base form, not about the sulphate or any other acid-salt.

Wiki can be edited by anyone, right, nevertheless wrong infos are edited immediately, if they are obvious wrong. Months ago, I read, wikipedia is at the same level like the enzyclopedia britannica, i.e. in every encyclopedia can be bullshit, but such standard-infos should be true. And the mentioned value should be true in correct conditions, its (as said) found everywhere in chemical standard-books for more than 100 years already. At googlebooks there are found very old chemical books and even there the value is more or less the same. If somebody experiences different values, its just because the conditions are not very pure or the temp is much over room-temperature.

Therefore I wrote, its necessary to clean the liquid as good as possible and to precipitate at low temperatures to not end up with lots of morphine leftover
greez

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

Originally Posted by poppypreacher

But Swim talked about the base form, not about the sulphate or any other acid-salt.

Agreed. The base form and its hydrate are not very water soluble.

The raw alkaloidal form and salt forms (can be a sulphate, Hydrochloride or even an acetate) are extremely water soluble, the former being the reason why CPS, tea and CFO extractions work.

Wiki's citation is (unclearly) working from base form and hydrated form, which would be completely correct as morphine base is extremely insoluble in water.

Hope this has been of help

[waltz#2]

No comment was given on making sure no codeine remains. Also, the M to 6MAM reaction, how does that occur? Boiling the CM percipitate with acetic acid?

[samuraigecko]

For informational or research purposes only . . . in hypothetical situations and theoretical discussions . .

NO boiling. and CM is not water soluble anyway.
Covering with acetic acid (enough to JUST dissolve the CM).
Add 2x volume ethanol.
Centrifuge or allow to separate.
One is left with the 6MAM suspended in the ethanol.
AA layer is taken away.
HCl is added to ethanol as per volume (equation to come soon)
Ethanol is gently evaporated off leaving 6MAM HCl.

A fair amount of the color and other slight impurities are taken away by the ethanol if centrifuging and siphoning off the ethanol layer is replaces the evap. Dry the result. This leaves a light beige HCl salt.

Hope this has helped