Experiences - First 2 experiences on MDMA - one amazing, one hideous - anxiety - any advice?

[miss_fliss]

Hi everybody, thank you for reading, my friend would appreciate any help/advice.

First Time/ Good Experience
Violet took MDMA for the first time on Sunday night. She was in her bedroom at home, felt safe and warm. She was very chilled out, she had candles and a funny video on, she was in a good mood. Violet took some MDMA crystals (she doesn't have scales, so is not too sure of accurate dosage, which she knows is pretty stupid, but please bear with her as she is new to this), she took three 1mm size crystals, then half an hour later three more 1mm crystals, then started to come up. She freaked out a tiny bit as she realised she wasn't in control, but then Violet realised that she wasn't in control because something amazing was in control instead so it was all good. She had a beautiful time, spiritual, saw lights and stars and rainbows with eyes open and psycadellic patterns with eyes closed. She realised lots of beautiful insights and Violet basically had the best time ever of her life. Violet took a further three 1mm size crystals a couple of hours later, but these didn't seem to have any effect. The next day was fine, although she had only slept 3 hours (as it kept her awake) and she was chilled and happy.

Inbetween
After this, in the week, Violet took 1 tiny bump and 2 tiny lines of cocaine as she was tired, and also drank alcohol (out of peer pressure, Violet hates alcohol. And wasn't that impressed with cocaine. She will not bother with either substance again) on Monday night.

In the week Violet took 5-HTP (1 capsule per day) as she had heard it helps increase serotonin levels that have been depleted after MDMA use, and that it helps any comedowns.

Second Time/Bad Experience
On the Thursday night Violet decided to take MDMA again. Her best friend was with her, a friend that is anti-drugs, but she seemed to be ok with it as she wanted to drink alcohol and wanted Violet to have a good time too. Violet was not in an amazing mood, she was a bit stressed, and worried what her friend would think of her, but was looking forward to the evening. Violet took just three 1mm crystals, from the same bag (bought from a friend) as before, and hoped this would just make her feel happy and chatty for the evening. Violet and her friend went into the city on the bus to go out. Unfortunately, Violet got the "slightly freaking out out of control" feeling she had before, but didn't get past this, this became the prolonged state. It got worse and worse, Violet freaked out, had a panic attack, couldn't be near people or crowds and had to go home. The bus freaked her out and she had more panic attacks on the bus. She bacame anxious about everybody judging her. At home Violet couldn't stand there being lights (apart from one soft lamp, it couldn't be dark) /tv/music/videos on, couldn't stand talking to her friend/talking on the phone, she couldn't look at anything other than the carpet (which also became too much after a while). She couldn't sleep, she was nauseous, had diarrhoea, was shaking. Her friend rang NHS Direct who advised just drinking water, and said that you couldn't drink too much water on MDMA which Violet thought was wrong and that she would die and didn't trust them, however she kept trying to drink water as she didn't want to die from the MDMA, but it made her feel sicker. She had panic attacks throughout the night and thought she was going to die. She didn't sleep at all.

The following day the panic attacks continued and Violet felt she couldn't even leave her room. She was still nauseous throughout the day and could barely eat. She tried to keep drinking water and to drink some orange juice as she heard this helps comedowns. She didn't take anymore of the 5-HTP as she was worried this would kill her. She thought she had gone insane and would never relate to the world again. Thinking about the experience or about MDMA freaked her out all day. Violet basically had the worst time ever. The feelings passed a bit throughout the day, and the following day Violet felt marginally better.

Help/advice please?
Violet really wants to try MDMA again to experience an amazing experience like her first time again, it was really spiritually helpful and lush and fun to her, but is now so scared that she could have a bad time like on Thursday, which was so horribe and scary to her that she says it is putting her off.

Could it have been bad MDMA? Violet assumed that MDMA crystals in the same baggie would all be from the same batch (perhaps this is naive of her)? Can you even get bad pure MDMA? Could it have been the fact that it was a lower dose than before? Could the setting have made the second experience bad? Social situation? Should Violet have not taken 5-HTP or other drugs inbetween? Should she have left longer than two days between the two experiences? Is she just not suited to the drug?

Sorry this is such a long post, I just wanted to ensure I'd included as much information as I could so you could please help Violet. Thanks!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Nice first post. Have an edit button!
	Sorry to hear about this, but great write-up.

[miss_fliss]

Oops, just realised I put "My" in the title, instead of "Violet's", a mistake. I have just pm'ed a moderator. Sorry!

[podge]

Can you even get bad pure MDMA? - not really, pure MDMA is what it is. Good or bad experience is subjective im afraid. Maybe it wasnt pure MDMA though although the first experience sounded close enough.

Could it have been the fact that it was a lower dose than before? - doubtful, more in this case would not have made the experience better.

Could the setting have made the second experience bad? Social situation? - with MDMA generally one is quite socialable but its very possible this was a large part of the problem. Violet gained the same initial fear in both experiences but when she was in a place she was very farmiliar and comfortable with she regained composure which would indicate setting was a factor the second time.

Should Violet have not taken 5-HTP or other drugs inbetween? - 5-htp was a good idea, but its generally not advised too close to before an experience as it can actually diminish the effects. Alcohol shouldnt have taken away from it too much, the cocaine may have taken away from the experience but not by very much - but either way neither would have helped it.

Should she have left longer than two days between the two experiences? - this is probably the other major factor, swiy should wait at LEAST a week between experiences . Swim would recommend months especially as swiy is a newbie, if swiy does it too often it can ruin experiences in the future, this is known as "losing the magic" and it seems to be true with other drugs too but its renowned with MDMA. Physically it takes at around a week for the body the get chemically balanced again and psychologically it can take less or longer. Using this chemical rarely is for novelties sake, if that wears out then so too does the essential factor in this experience.

Is she just not suited to the drug?! - hard to tell ,judging from the first experience i would'nt think so but this is a question that only swiy will know the answer to.

[anony]

Ayup
swim used to suffer with a problem with ecstasy. Swim was fine with it until one night when he and swim's friend smoked like a quarter of weed and munched 6 pills each. After the 6th swim started to have a very bad trip. A few weeks later swim thought it was just a bad pill (no such thing) and thought he'd try pills again. So he did. swim was clubbing in town with coke and pills and the night was alright, swim then pulled out a couple of spliffs and it fucked it up again. swim would have bad thoughts and they'd stick in swims mind
swim did loads of research into pills after this n realised pills cannot directly kill you. swim's best advise is; xtc is a good drug and it's there to help you, remember this
Let me know how things go

[anony]

oh yeh, does violet smoke weed at all?

[miss_fliss]

Thank you so much for your replies!

Originally Posted by podge

Good or bad experience is subjective im afraid.

Yeah I think possibly Violet realised that she was 'making' it bad to start with and she was in the wrong headspace, but then she freaked herself out too much thinking that there was a chemical in her body that meant she was not in control, and yet ironically (? right use of the word) I guess it was her reaction and not the drug that made her have a horrible experience.

Originally Posted by podge

Social situation? its very possible this was a large part of the problem. Violet gained the same initial fear in both experiences but when she was in a place she was very farmiliar and comfortable with she regained composure which would indicate setting was a factor the second time.

Definitely, I think she was more worried with her friend there, and not in her 'safe space', so this probably did contribute to the bad experience, you're right.

Originally Posted by podge

this is probably the other major factor, swiy should wait at LEAST a week between experiences . Swim would recommend months especially as swiy is a newbie, if swiy does it too often it can ruin experiences in the future, this is known as "losing the magic" and it seems to be true with other drugs too but its renowned with MDMA.

Thank you so much for this advice, that does make sense, I guess she was definitely not physically ready or psycologically ready to try it again yet, as on an emotional level Violet does now feel like she could've learned so much more and developed herself so much through the first experience. Which makes her feel like she 'ruined' everything through the second experience, but I guess she should just chalk it down to experience and forget about the second, and she should try to understand that this can and does happen to other people too.

Originally Posted by podge

Is she just not suited to the drug?! - hard to tell ,judging from the first experience i would'nt think so but this is a question that only swiy will know the answer to.

It seems like she couldn't possibly not be suited to something that has the ability to give such amazing joy as it did the first time, maybe she just wasn't suited to it the second time because of her mindset, so maybe it's just that Violet should just be careful about how she's feeling when she tries again!

Violet will definitely give it a rest for a couple of months, try to forget the bad experience, she's just gonna to chill a bit and get over it, and get over the fear that a bad time could happen again, because even just thinking about/contemplating taking any chemicals (even in the distant future) is still making her really anxious two days after this bad time! Yet she reaaaalllly wants to feel as good as the MDMA felt again. So I guess she should just chill and try to forget about it so she is more relaxed and in a better place for the next time. It seems so sad that "the magic" diminishes though!

Originally Posted by anony

swim did loads of research into pills after this n realised pills cannot directly kill you. swim's best advise is; xtc is a good drug and it's there to help you, remember this

That's such good and helpful advice! I think that because Violet's friend is so cautious and uninformed and anti-drugs and was talking alot about why drugs are bad the day before, it caused Violet to doubt that MDMA is in fact amazing! So in the future Violet will try to be in a better frame of mind again and remember that!

Originally Posted by anony

oh yeh, does violet smoke weed at all?

Nope not really, she has done before with friends, but not much and not often.

[Rapid Dave]

Following on from what's already been said, I think the important thing to remember about most (if not all) drugs is that the user has to be in the 'right place' when taking and experiencing them, regardless of any biological or neurochemical effects that the drug has.

Personally speaking, SWIM had problems whilst smoking weed about 2 years ago. SWIM had fallen into a domino-effect that meant that SWIM was always a bit wary of having a joint, which meant that they usually went green/pulled a whitey everytime SWIM had a smoke. Eventually SWIM laid off it until he felt comfortable and 'gave in' to the effects that he would expect to experience and hasn't (touch wood!) had a bad time since then.

In terms of your experience, SWIM reckons that several factors combined and resulted in Violet's bad trip:

1) Using MDMA without a sufficent enough time period between trips.
2) The use/effects of the alcohol and cocaine.
3) How Violet felt consciously or subconsciously about being out with a friend who was not using drugs or, more importantly, who was anti-drugs.

I wouldn't underestimate (3) as SWIM's or SWIY's feelings just before a drug affects someone can easily dictate the sort of trip/roll/experience they have.

[anony]

Originally Posted by miss_fliss

Thank you so much for your replies!

Yeah I think possibly Violet realised that she was 'making' it bad to start with and she was in the wrong headspace, but then she freaked herself out too much thinking that there was a chemical in her body that meant she was not in control, and yet ironically (? right use of the word) I guess it was her reaction and not the drug that made her have a horrible experience.

Definitely, I think she was more worried with her friend there, and not in her 'safe space', so this probably did contribute to the bad experience, you're right.


Thank you so much for this advice, that does make sense, I guess she was definitely not physically ready or psycologically ready to try it again yet, as on an emotional level Violet does now feel like she could've learned so much more and developed herself so much through the first experience. Which makes her feel like she 'ruined' everything through the second experience, but I guess she should just chalk it down to experience and forget about the second, and she should try to understand that this can and does happen to other people too.

It seems like she couldn't possibly not be suited to something that has the ability to give such amazing joy as it did the first time, maybe she just wasn't suited to it the second time because of her mindset, so maybe it's just that Violet should just be careful about how she's feeling when she tries again!

Violet will definitely give it a rest for a couple of months, try to forget the bad experience, she's just gonna to chill a bit and get over it, and get over the fear that a bad time could happen again, because even just thinking about/contemplating taking any chemicals (even in the distant future) is still making her really anxious two days after this bad time! Yet she reaaaalllly wants to feel as good as the MDMA felt again. So I guess she should just chill and try to forget about it so she is more relaxed and in a better place for the next time. It seems so sad that "the magic" diminishes though!


That's such good and helpful advice! I think that because Violet's friend is so cautious and uninformed and anti-drugs and was talking alot about why drugs are bad the day before, it caused Violet to doubt that MDMA is in fact amazing! So in the future Violet will try to be in a better frame of mind again and remember that!


Nope not really, she has done before with friends, but not much and not often.

Ok, weed can be a fucker!
Let me know how she goes

[metalupyour455]

wow, this is basically what happened to swim with his first two experiences on e, except that they were farther apart and no alcohol/coke. but yeah, first time was aamzing and second time, he freaked out like crazy... it sucked because he was at a huge rave (Together As One 2008) with about 30,000 people, and he bought from a random guy (which was retarded). If what people said here is true, that the mindset does actually matter with e (I was under the impression that it didnt, that it was more important on shrooms/acid and stuff), I think the mindset he got from not knowing the source of my pills contributed to my panic. But i was considering the possibility that the pills were laced with something? I dont know, what do you guys think is more likely?

[miss_fliss]

It's good to know Violet isn't the only one then =)
I think Violet also had some underlying issues which came up during the trip, as she is still having panic attacks now even though it's weeks after. So she's going to definitely need to deal with them before rolling again. I guess from what people have replied then that mindset is extremely important, and Violet will definitely wait until she's feeling better and more chilled before next time! Not sure about your "friend's" pills as Violet's was pure mdma, not made into a pill, so I'll leave that for someone else to reply to...

[metalupyour455]

swim just rolled really hard last night, and he was in the right mindset, had powerful/legit doublestacks (from a legit source), and a lot of friends! so it turned out really well, and showed that it really does matter on the mindset. since swim rolls pretty much at raves only, the right music will help one get into the right vibe, and swim found that last night the DnB area's were just right. my best wishes to violet for more ecstatic ecstasy experiences.

[BlondieUK]

Coming up on MDMA can be very intense, even in a space where swiy feels comfortable, while swiy is coming up swiy can feel very anxious and intense.

The good news is that swiy learns to deal with the "coming up" stage and can incorporate it into the experience (swim deals with it by just laying back and letting the drug take hold, not talking too much, just letting it wash over you).. swim finds it hard to talk much or do anything remotely complicated while coming up, it's all about how swiy deals with the situation.

It's the same as drinking.. initially as soon as you get drunk you make a twat of yourself, but after a while you can make a smooth transition from sober to drunk without too much trouble.

Oh and, something other members have said but is worth repeating, try and space your MDMA use out alot more, it takes the brain about a week or so to recover, so if swiy rolls twice within that time the "magic" won't be there in such abundance.

It's a special drug, so use it on special occasions =)

Swim is glad your initial experience was a good one!

[drab4]

Over the years Swim has met a few people who have reacted in a similar way to Violet

The problem seems to be, as Violet stated, that the feelings produced by the drug are so strong that the person feels out of control. For some people, this sensation of not being in control can be a scary experience, scary enough to ruin the whole night

Swim would say that it was not a case of bad Mdma at all. It seems as if the Mdma was exactly the same in both situations, in fact Violet even mentioned the same sensations of feeling out of control on her first, pleasant, experience. So bearing that in mind, Swim advises Violet to only use Mdma in safe and calm situations, at least until she is more used to the intense effects of the drug

In your own house with close friends and your favourite music - great place to experiment with a relatively new drug

Stuck in a bus with a load of strangers - not so good

Swim thinks that maybe when Violet is more used to the effects of the drug and how it makes her feel, she may be able to use it in other situations, for example clubs and so on

Oh and just one final view, Swim has always found that you only need slightly more water than you usually would when you are using Mdma. Unless that is you are dancing and sweating a lot. There's no need to think that you need to drink loads of water if you're just sitting around chilling