Combinations - What Vitamins / Supplements with XTC

[spa]

SWIM enjoys taking Vitamin C, Caffeine, and other supplements with XTC.

Got any other suggestions?

[GForce]

5-HTP and St John's Wort afterwards for serotonin regeneration.

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

http://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthr...ight=manifesto

[jaffacake]

I wouldn't spend too much money on vitamins and supplements. There's a chance taking vitamins and supplements will do you more damage than E ever will. Some studies suggest that Vitamin C for example damages cells and may increase your risk of cancer.

The only really safe way of taking E is to take it as infrequently as you can. I think taking E once every 3 months is always going to be a lot safer than taking E once a month no matter how many supplements and what "pre/post-loading" regime you follow.

[RaverHippie]

Originally Posted by jaffacake

I wouldn't spend too much money on vitamins and supplements. There's a chance taking vitamins and supplements will do you more damage than E ever will. Some studies suggest that Vitamin C for example damages cells and may increase your risk of cancer.

The only really safe way of taking E is to take it as infrequently as you can. I think taking E once every 3 months is always going to be a lot safer than taking E once a month no matter how many supplements and what "pre/post-loading" regime you follow.

The number of studies that outline the benefit of Vitamin C DEFINITELY outnumber the studies that show its potential harm...

even when the link between ecstasy and vitamin C is concerned.

[spa]

Saying vitamin C is more harmful than XTC that seems a bit much.

.. the post WrtngCocaineTutorial wrote talks more about recovery drugs. I always take 5-HTP to restore serotonin, and learned about Ginko Biloba and St. Johns Wart.

.. i'm looking for enhancing vitamins / supplements to take during a roll.

[jaffacake]

Originally Posted by spa

Saying vitamin C is more harmful than XTC that seems a bit much.

That's not what I said. I said there's a chance vitamin C could do you more harm than E, because it's been linked to cell damage/cancer. As far as I know E has never been linked to cancer.

[RaverHippie]

Originally Posted by jaffacake

That's not what I said. I said there's a chance vitamin C could do you more harm than E, because it's been linked to cell damage/cancer. As far as I know E has never been linked to cancer.

Please source your claims. They usually go against all accepted knowledge so it is even more necessary.

Here is one of many studies showing the benefit of use MDMA + Vitamin C.

to put the scientific article into a simple statement, MDMA use causes dangerous free radicals to form and destroy whatever they come in contact with. Vitamin C, as an antioxidant, reduces the amount of free radicals formed post MDMA use significantly...

Whatever the scant percentage that you may get cancer, Vitamin C DOES protect against brain cell damage from free radicals. So you are talking about a defined advantage of taking it versus proposed link to cancer.

I'll be popping 1000mgs of Vitamin C down my lab rats mouth every time he thinks about taking MDMA.

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

Originally Posted by spa

Saying vitamin C is more harmful than XTC that seems a bit much.

.. the post WrtngCocaineTutorial wrote talks more about recovery drugs. I always take 5-HTP to restore serotonin, and learned about Ginko Biloba and St. Johns Wart.

.. i'm looking for enhancing vitamins / supplements to take during a roll.

Yes, the post does not have 'boosers'. But what it contains is actually for the most part not recovery drugs. There's a difference between preventing something from happening, and trying to fix the damage once it's done.

Most of what is listed there is antioxidants which act to inhibit the oxidative damage which MDMA can give someone.

5-HTP taken after a roll is more of a recovery drug. Which might help with negative symptoms, but will not keep tolerance or neurotoxicity down...

I'll bump another thread about some preventive supplements.

[jaffacake]

Originally Posted by RaverHippie

to put the scientific article into a simple statement, MDMA use causes dangerous free radicals to form and destroy whatever they come in contact with. Vitamin C, as an antioxidant, reduces the amount of free radicals formed post MDMA use significantly...

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Vitamin C can also act as a oxidising agent. You could be causing yourself more harm than good.

Those who think that if a little vitamin C is good, more must be better should think again, says a team of British researchers, who found that a supplement of 500 milligrams a day could damage people's genes.

The British researchers, chemical pathologists at the University of Leicester, found in a six-week study of 30 healthy men and women that a daily 500-milligram supplement of vitamin C had pro-oxidant as well as antioxidant effects on the genetic material DNA. The researchers found that at the 500-milligram level, vitamin C promoted genetic damage by free radicals to a part of the DNA, the adenine bases, that had not previously been measured in studies of the vitamin's oxidative properties.

The finding, published in the current issue of the British journal Nature, corroborates warnings that have been issued for decades by an American physician, Dr. Victor Herbert, professor of medicine at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York. Dr. Herbert has shown, primarily through laboratory studies, that vitamin C supplements promote the generation of free radicals from iron in the body.

''The vitamin C in supplements mobilizes harmless ferric iron stored in the body and converts it to harmful ferrous iron, which induces damage to the heart and other organs,'' Dr. Herbert said in an interview.

''Unlike the vitamin C naturally present in foods like orange juice, vitamin C as a supplement is not an antioxidant,'' Dr. Herbert said. ''It's a redox agent -- an antioxidant in some circumstances and a pro-oxidant in others.''

In contrast, vitamin C naturally present in food, he said, has no oxidizing effects.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...57c0a96e958260

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

jaffacake.

I read the article. And I have to say that one has to think of everyday normal oxidation and MDMA oxidation differently.

Take Q10 for example - it has both an oxidizing effect, and a anti-oxidant effect. If a person takes it without any particular oxidative stress going on (such as normal days, which this study you posted is aimed at). It might tip either way, it might give a little protection, or it might act more as an oxidant than an antioxidant.

But you have to see this in the setting it is. MDMA gives a temporary huge boost in oxidative stress, MUCH, much more than what a normal day's activity would give anyone. And in these circumstances antioxidants such as Q10 and Vitamin C both will exhibit much stronger antioxidant properties than oxidizing.

Vitamin C is known to be a powerful antioxidant at high doses, and it's also used to prevent other oxidative damage. For example, if people take high doses of tetracyclines (a antibiotic group) over a long period of time they have a high risk of both brown stripes on their teeth and a dysfunctional thyroid gland. I know, and I have got both.. But when an antioxidant - such as vitamin C is taken this does not have to be the case.

This study was about everyday use for 6 weeks. And there is a significant difference between everyday use for such a long period, and to use it sporadically.


Anyway, thanks for your input. I am interested in this field and I hadn't seen the article you posted until now...

[KyleM]

I think the original post was requesting thoughts on what others enjoy taking with MDMA as a way of altering or enhancing the experience rather than what will ease comedowns and prevent problems after rolling, though SWIM does agree any potential problem with taking vit. C after MDMA will most certainly be outweighed by any potential benefit. The cost-benefit analysis clearly favors taking vit. C as there is no substantial evidence proving the opposite. One study by the British at one university is not "substantial evidence" proving vit. C is bad.

As for vitamins and supplements on MDMA, SWIM enjoys a bit of SAMe and this supplement called "euphoria" consisting of a blend of L-Tyrosine and natural cacao. Very positive effects on euphoria, but obviously no way to prove that it's not placebo effect either. SWIM is also very interested in trying an oxytocin supplement in the form of a nasal spray during the peak of a future roll.

[jaffacake]

Vitamins A, C and E are 'a waste of time and may even shorten your life'

Vitamins taken by around a third of the population do not extend life and may even cause premature death, according to a respected group of international scientists.



After reviewing 67 studies involving more than 230,000 men and women, the experts say there is no convincing evidence that taking supplements of the antioxidant vitamins A, C and E can make you healthier.

The alarming findings, published today, will shock Britons who spend £333million a year on supplements.

Forty per cent of women and 30 per cent of men take a vitamin pill each day.
The review involved trials on beta-carotene, vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin E and selenium.
It says in-depth analysis of the different trials does not support the idea that vitamins extend lifespan.

'Even more, beta-carotene, vitamin A, and vitamin E seem to increase mortality,' says the review.

Vitamin A was linked to a 16 per cent increase in mortality, beta-carotene - the pigment found in carrots, tomatoes and broccoli which the body converts into vitamin A - to a 7 per cent increase and vitamin E to a 4 per cent increase. However, there was no significant detrimental effect caused by vitamin C.
'There was no evidence to support either healthy people using antioxidants to prevent disease or for sick people to take them to get better,' said the review.


The review is published by the Cochrane Library, a publication of the Cochrane Collaboration, an international organisation which evaluates healthcare research. Altogether 47 trials involving 180,938 people were classified as having a low risk of bias which showed 'antioxidant supplements significantly increased mortality'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1774