Opinions - Why is it so difficult to explain the futillity of the war on drugs to some people?

[Orchid_Suspiria]

One thing that annoys swim the most are ignorant people that keep spouting the same propaganda even if you give them hard scientific fact.This mainly applies to the war on drugs,the fact that alcohol is worse for people than many illegal drugs,the fact that not every drug is addicting.How do you get through to these kinds of people?Swim has tried everything.Reason and facts don't work.If we ever want a chance to end the war on drugs we will have to make these kinds of people see fact.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great post

[truth]

i 100% agree. how i deal with them is by not even trying. I used to get all amped up on talking to people about drugs. Many of SWIMS friends drink, but believe cannabis or anything else is satan. haha. SWIM laughs at this. But truly people are very closed minded now an days. All we can do is ignore them. The sad fact is in our lifetime most likely we wont live to see they day with no war on drugs. Until the people realize its complete propaganda bs,Which will not happen anytime soon... Also, religion is a major factor, which religion controls the WORLD. Sorry though bro, I feel the same. Just ignore them. I say the drug forum should start a revolution. Really if we got a grip of people on this forum to speak to people and educate them that would be awesome. There are very smart people on this forum. I say we do it. Otherwise we will be like the ants we are and do whatever we have to do to keep the world running for the government. sorry if i got off topic. good post though. its the truth

[Matt The Funk]

I don't give up. I try to educate as much as people. We need to or else substances will never be legalized. Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power. The truth will set you free.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim wishes they could be ignored.It is hard to ignore them though because they seem to be the ones with the power.Swim is so tired of people trying to make him miserable just because he is in pain and wants to feel better.This probably applies to alot of people on this forum or atleast has at one time.What is wrong with people?One would think they would want to stop spending money on a failed war on drugs.Why can't they see past the stupid stereotype of drug user=bad person?Most the people swim meets on this forum seem more compassionate,friendly,and literate than most the so called "good"people.

[Paracelsus]

What have the harmfulness of alcohol and the addicting or non-addicting nature of various drugs to do with the futility of the war on drugs? Please use a more broad thread title.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Well if people reallize that they are allowed to use a very harmful substance that they once tried to ban they will see the new prohibition is very similar and failing in the same way.

[psyche]

Yeah, comparing alcohol to illicit drugs by harm shows the insanity of current system most effectively. But many people have heard this 'claim', and for some it may take away your credibility, especially if you let it get to you that the person doesn't beleive you at first. It is a very aggressive way to start by telling people that good ol' alcohol is actually not different from unpredictable and dangerous drugs. Some people might refuse to listen to you after you try to suggest something like that. I used to try very hard to convince people around me, and I was fairly convincing, but I don't anymore have enough energy to try and convert people from their old beliefs. I only passively correct them if the issue raises and tell more if they are willing to listen or have good questions.

[Paracelsus]

Hard science: the dangers of moderate drinking (Annals of Epidemiology). If anyone is interested in some reputation points, please upload all papers to the file archive (if they are not already there, and excluding editorials recommendations, and such).

PS: please post here first if planning to upload, so nobody interferes with anyone.

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useful, though could be more compact

[lexifer]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

One thing that annoys swim the most are ignorant people that keep spouting the same propaganda even if you give them hard scientific fact.This mainly applies to the war on drugs,the fact that alcohol is worse for people than many illegal drugs,the fact that not every drug is addicting.How do you get through to these kinds of people?Swim has tried everything.Reason and facts don't work.If we ever want a chance to end the war on drugs we will have to make these kinds of people see fact.

What makes swim laugh is that a lot of these ignorant people don't even think twice about popping a valium or xanax or any other kind of legally prescribed drug yet they will curse you up and down for even mentioning that marijuana has any positive effects or legit uses. Swim doesn't know about you but hes seen plenty of people get hooked on narcotics, benzos and other drugs that they were legally prescribed. sigh.

[stoneinfocus]

My chemistry book has been stolen, by a family member, maybe because it started shape-shifting into LSD before their eyes(metall-organic chemistry of transition metals).

Swim would dream of forcing them to a months of porns and drugs.

[entheogensmurf]

Some individuals choose to ignore valid facts and reasoning. I liken this to theists who close their minds and replace these helpful methods and tools for faith.

I also consider that many people lack critical thinking skills which fuels the fires of immorality (as it ruins the lives of friendly and good natured people) that is the drug war.

Now more as to why... I imagine that what contributes to this axiomatic hatred of drugs dubbed illegal or illicit falls into society and what we grew up with in the sense of values. That and we have always known booze to be legal and the other non-ordinary state creation drugs as "bad" or what weak and wicked people use.

When I tried out cigarettes just a few months ago (which I smoked for about 2 months, a pack every 4-5 days), nearly every time I lit up I felt like I was doing something bad or wrong. Bad for me? I know they are bad for me but this is not what I mean. It felt... sinnish, like I was doing something wrong I'm sure the hellish times as a child, being stuck in a backseat of a car with two smoking parents didn't help me either.


This hatred and deploration contributes excessively to the reasoning centers (assuming they have this, heh) that would permit them in seeing the "futillity of the war on drugs."

Then I also consider that some people would see accepting the "futillity of the war on drugs" as an indicator of giving up. And we are top flight mother fckers; to yield or admit failure or the impossibility of "winning" is ignoble.

Something like that.

[stoneinfocus]

Very well put, Paracelus, the more radical view of the Una Bomber hits the nail on the head, because if they´d give up they´d feel twice inferior: for giving up, for not helping those, who are in the misery they´ve put them in and for finding a new goal... uuups, thrice.^^

Imagine alcohol were unknown and illegal and the propaganda hit on alcohol, just like it does on other drugs.
They´d tar, feather and stone anybody producing or giving alcohol away... >billions of braincells lost within one binge?! -organfailure?! -toxic to every cell it contacts?! Highyl addictive and probably deadly withdrawl if untreated and not monitored in the ICU?! -not to mention impurities of brew, if it were illicit, like in africa, where they´re still drinking moonshine...<

Maybe one should point out, as swim does it sometimes, that alcohol, this simple, two-carbon molecule, can´t be all there´s to it and lots of non-pharmaceutical drugs work as well and do even better so, than what one gets at wal-mart, the drug-store/pharmacy or even per prescription, while having immense benefits on society and onself to the better... and it can be true!

[Each Hit]

my friend baby jesus' school is hosting a speaker who will be discussing the failure of the war on drugs. it looks to be an interesting and informative lecture, and baby jesus plans on attending. if he does attend, he'll be taking notes which he said i can share here afterwards. baby jesus figures getting some information straight from the ex-cop's mouth should provide an informed opinion on the matter. here's the e-mail he sent me:

BOONE — Jerry Cameron will present the talk “America’s Criminal Justice Policy: Addicted to the War on Drugs” April 5 at Appalachian State University.

The program begins at noon in room 011 Old Library Classroom Building. Parking will be available in the parking deck on College Street.

A 17-year law enforcement veteran, Cameron provides audiences with a look at the failed “War on Drugs” through the eyes of a front-line veteran. He has presented to audiences across this country and in England, Scotland, Ireland, the Netherlands and Canada.

His activities include meeting with members of Congress, state legislatures, members of Parliament, as well as law enforcement officials and researchers around the world.

The former Fernandina Beach, Fla., police chief is a graduate of the 150th Session of the FBI National Academy, the DEA Basic Drug Enforcement Course, and two DEA Advanced Drug Enforcement Professional Institutes.

He has been published in The Police Chief, The Florida Police Chief, and Law & Order magazines. He was a full-time faculty member of the Institute of Police Technology and Management at the University of North Florida, where he taught drug interdiction, roadside interrogation techniques, police ethics, and management.

Toward the end of his career, Cameron began to question the efficacy as well as the morality of the “War on Drugs.” When he began doing serious research on the subject, he concluded that the “War on Drugs” was a total failure and had caused tremendous damage to the country.

Cameron speaks out against decades of failed policy and encourages the “re-legalization” of drugs. He believes that this approach is the only way to decrease the amount of drugs falling into the hands of children, to make room for violent offenders to serve their full terms in prisons, and to return law enforcement to its legitimate function of protecting citizens.

[jilola]

The reason for the futility is twofold.
For one, the general populace has been more or less brainwashed by the propagandist information regarding drugs. Not only have they been trained to view some drugs and some other drugs as totally separate from what is suggested as the norm but they have also been trained to see one category as lacking all redeeming qualities while viewing the other as a given, part of the normal conduct of a well-formed society. This has been an ongoing process since the inception of the current prohibition.
The other reason is more personal but still related to the above mentioned machinations of the prohibitionists.
An individual opposes any relaxation of the current laws based on a personal insecurity as to one's own response. "Will I become a depraved addict?" is the question. Fear of losing self-control or a perceived self-image, in simple terms, is the second answer behind the perpetuation of the prohibition.

The fear toward change persists as long as the majority of populace consists of the generations indoctrinated with the irrational prohibitionist agendas.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Well then the only obvious solution is counter propaganda,unfortunately we don't have the access to as monstrous a propaganda machine as the enemy does.I wouldn't even call our's propaganda though since it is the truth.

[jilola]

Well word of mouth is a good way. The trick, I think, is not to try to change somebody's opinion of the issue but rather to cause them to think on their own. That way the person doesn't feel threatened by the new idea but has time to come to a conclusion in his own.

All change in important of emotioanlly loaded matters comes form the inside.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

This is good advice,however it is hard to get people to think for themselves.Most people,especially those in the United States have been brainwashed and lied to for so long that it is a difficult task for them.

[Salvinorin A]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

Hard science: the dangers of moderate drinking (Annals of Epidemiology). If anyone is interested in some reputation points, please upload all papers to the file archive (if they are not already there, and excluding editorials recommendations, and such).

PS: please post here first if planning to upload, so nobody interferes with anyone.

I'll do it.....is it alright if I use the abstract as the file description?

As for this thread.....swim hears a very similar concept every time he gets into a drug discussion with these kinds of people. After seeing things differently about the drug...whatever it is.....even if they agree with it being somewhat harmless....their next response is always "Doing drugs is just a bad habit, why make it okay to potentially develop more bad habits? (on top of the ones that many people have already)"

Any thoughts?

[Paracelsus]

I'll do it.....is it alright if I use the abstract as the file description?

Yes, abstract is ideal, along with the authors and where it was published.

[Salvinorin A]

Sweet, I'll get on it as soon as I get back.

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Thanks

[stoneinfocus]

Originally Posted by jilola

Well word of mouth is a good way. The trick, I think, is not to try to change somebody's opinion of the issue but rather to cause them to think on their own. That way the person doesn't feel threatened by the new idea but has time to come to a conclusion in his own.

All change in important of emotioanlly loaded matters comes form the inside.

Definately the best and only way (unfortunately). But how do you do this?

Max Planck said new scientific theories are not accepted, because the opponents are being proven wrong and teached, it´s because the opponents slowly die out.


this is so true... once the foundation of ignorance has been set, one has to keep the seeds of alternatives and make them grow into another generation. Violent oposition has even more power in forming alternatives than the silent, bought-off "easy going by ignorance"-policy and spreading subconcious pressure to single alternative opinion-holders, by executives, wearing guns and tear gas and tasers and showing them on TV.

stoneinfocus