UK - NOT GUILTY: How does SWIM get his drugs back from the cops?

[wearestardust]

SWIWAS was recently found not guilty of possession of four different class C, Sch IV drugs, diazepam, alprazolam, lorazepam and nitrazepam. Only about 100 tablets in total.
Obviously the court has decided that he was entitled to be in possession of the same.
How (Scotland) does one go about retrieving this property from the police, who are duty bound to keep it safe until the full outcome of a case?

[Bikelbees]

Presumably there was a solicitor involved? If SWIY is entitled to these medicines, he could simply write to the police with a request for the goods to be returned, I have heard cases where the police have taken years to oblige, but to start with, just ask them.

[jaffacake]

You have absolutely no chance of ever getting them back. Firstly, the cops don't believe in giving drugs back to people as a matter of principle. Secondly if they gave you the drugs back they could be considered guilty of supplying you with illegal drugs.

This applies even to drugs which are perfectly legal, once the cops get their hands on them there is no chance they will ever give them back to you.

[aerozeppelin123]

Originally Posted by jaffacake

You have absolutely no chance of ever getting them back. Firstly, the cops don't believe in giving drugs back to people as a matter of principle. Secondly if they gave you the drugs back they could be considered guilty of supplying you with illegal drugs.

This applies even to drugs which are perfectly legal, once the cops get their hands on them there is no chance they will ever give them back to you.

Surely that would simply count as stealing them from you, as legally it is no different to them stealing your TV - both are legal goods that you're allowed to possess. I reckon you could get them back, although I'm no expert in law.

[jaffacake]

Sure, to you and me it would qualify as stealing. To cops and magistrates who'se entire life is devoted to ridding the planet of the demon of drugs it makes perfect sense.

I've known cases where even perfectly legal drugs in the UK like methylone and GBL were confiscated and never given back. There's no way on earth a magistrate is going to side with a drug user against the cops.

[Bikelbees]

Originally Posted by jaffacake

You have absolutely no chance of ever getting them back. Firstly, the cops don't believe in giving drugs back to people as a matter of principle. Secondly if they gave you the drugs back they could be considered guilty of supplying you with illegal drugs.

This applies even to drugs which are perfectly legal, once the cops get their hands on them there is no chance they will ever give them back to you.

Where do you get your (mis)information from? If you make categorical statements like that you simply must know what you are talking about - apart from many other cases, I happen to know Sergei77 on another thread got all his "drugs" back, despite the plants supposedly containing Class A drugs.

[jaffacake]

Originally Posted by Bikelbees

Where do you get your (mis)information from? If you make categorical statements like that you simply must know what you are talking about - apart from many other cases, I happen to know Sergei77 on another thread got all his "drugs" back, despite the plants supposedly containing Class A drugs.

Was he a "trader"? I imagine traders could argue a different case.

I've known people who have had methylone taken off them and never given back even tho it is completely legal. The police won't even return digital scales if they think it might be used for drugs.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by jaffacake

You have absolutely no chance of ever getting them back. Firstly, the cops don't believe in giving drugs back to people as a matter of principle. Secondly if they gave you the drugs back they could be considered guilty of supplying you with illegal drugs.

This applies even to drugs which are perfectly legal, once the cops get their hands on them there is no chance they will ever give them back to you.

I don't now about Scotland, but in England you are definately allowed such medicines back if one is prescribed them. They have no right to confiscate them even if they are controlled. I assume SWIY has a prescription for some of the drugs.

Alprazolam is something I'm not too sure about. It isn't used in the UK and certainly isn't available on NHS prescription. The only case in which it may be used is when someone arrives from another country addicted to it, then it may be used by a private doctor. The alprazolam will almost certainly stay confiscated. Nitrazepam and diazepam can be prescribed together but lorazepam, diazepam and nitrazepam is a hell of a concoction that pretty much every GP would be reluctant to give out, not to mention that UK doctors HATE prescribing benzo's.

If SWIY has a valid prescription for the other benzodiazepines, then there is no reason why the police should not give them back.

[wearestardust]

Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine

I don't now about Scotland, but in England you are definately allowed such medicines back if one is prescribed them. They have no right to confiscate them even if they are controlled. I assume SWIY has a prescription for some of the drugs.

Alprazolam is something I'm not too sure about. It isn't used in the UK and certainly isn't available on NHS prescription. The only case in which it may be used is when someone arrives from another country addicted to it, then it may be used by a private doctor. The alprazolam will almost certainly stay confiscated. Nitrazepam and diazepam can be prescribed together but lorazepam, diazepam and nitrazepam is a hell of a concoction that pretty much every GP would be reluctant to give out, not to mention that UK doctors HATE prescribing benzo's.

If SWIY has a valid prescription for the other benzodiazepines, then there is no reason why the police should not give them back.

Funnily enough, out of the four substances you have everything, down to your information, wrong.
ALPRAZOLAM is the only one of the four that SWIM actually HAS GOT A VALID UK PRESCRIPTION FOR! Where on earth you got the idea that it isn't prescribed in the UK I do not know. It has been available ever since it was introduced in 1984 or thereabouts. SWIM has been prescribed alprazolam for a number of years. Always Xanax brand - there is only one generic available in the UK.
The others were quite validly prescribed by doctors in OTHER EU countries.
The other thing about the Law is that the Sheriff is supposed to, at the conclusion of a drugs case, issue an order for forfeiture of the drugs.
In this case, he did NOT.
A second case, heard several days before the one in question found SWIWAS GUILTY of possession of several benzodiazepines which had no valid prescription. Since one of those charges was also 'with intent to supply to another', it was decided not to contest that charge at all. However, there are still things prescribed by the very same European doctors in THAT case which I am certain the accused, on being found 'not guilty' on those charges, is quite entitled to receive back, the court having by not issuing a forfeit, has decided are the rightful property of the accused.
Perhaps the law is different in england; i don't know. But all points to SWIWAS having every right to claim those goods and have them released by the Police Custodier.

The original question was not 'how CAN' but 'how DOES' one go about retrieving one's property. A question of method, not theoretical law. The Sheriff's non-issue of a forfeiture order should make it plain that the Police are not entitled to hold onto them.

BTW, the only change to the laws on alprazolam have been that the 1 and 2mg strengths have been deleted, and it has been restricted for three years to private prescription. SWIM has to take a multitude of 0.5mg tablets daily instead of three 2mg bars as should be.

WAStardust

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by wearestardust

Funnily enough, out of the four substances you have everything, down to your information, wrong.
ALPRAZOLAM is the only one of the four that SWIM actually HAS GOT A VALID UK PRESCRIPTION FOR! Where on earth you got the idea that it isn't prescribed in the UK I do not know. It has been available ever since it was introduced in 1984 or thereabouts. SWIM has been prescribed alprazolam for a number of years. Always Xanax brand - there is only one generic available in the UK.

Private prescription?

The reference is from MIMS, the UK prescribing reference for GP's. In the latest edition alprazolam does not appear anywhere.

I was always under the impression that lorazepam was the prefered short acting benzodiazepine.

[Solinari]

I think this one is definitely for a lawyer to advise you what to do and if you're entitled to get them back. Even although they are your property and you have been found not guilty of illegally possessing them, they are scheduled drugs none the less.

There are no laws regarding the use, possession and supplying of TV's.

I imagine there is some guideline or law that will prevent you from getting them back.

[aerozeppelin123]

How though cos then the police could just take anything away from people that could be considered a drug, say something like herbal tea, even though it's a totally legal product? They would simply be breaking the law...the person hasn't done anything illegal in possessing it so how can the police keep it?

[Solinari]

Originally Posted by aerozeppelin123

How though cos then the police could just take anything away from people that could be considered a drug, say something like herbal tea, even though it's a totally legal product? They would simply be breaking the law...the person hasn't done anything illegal in possessing it so how can the police keep it?

I imagine (i don't know) this sort of thing would really only apply to classified drugs, (A B and C) which does cover a lot of drugs.

For benzodiazepines Wikipedia stated (not THEE most reliable of sources it must be said)....

Although some Class C drugs as defined by MDA 1971 may be exempt from the possession offence without an appropriate prescription specifically benzodiazepines are controlled under The Medicines Act 1968 and Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001 as Ammended. The MDR 2001 places most benzodiazepines in Schedule 4 Part 1 thus Possession of is an offence without an appropriate prescription.

Although you were found not guilty i still think there will be some thing that prevents you from getting them back.

[Evil GIR]

the bastards didnt give swims stuff back, nor chemicals.
I should take em to court really.

[Bikelbees]

I believe that the case I mentioned involved a small-scale distribution, but that shouldn't logically be the point. The only explanation I can think of for the issue in this thread is that because the court could not find beyond reasonable doubt against the accused, rather than the police returning goods under the proposition that not guilty = legal entitlement, they then make it the accused's job to prove on the balance of probabilities that they are entitled to them. There is also the issue if the drugs are subsequently used illicitly.

[jaffacake]

Cops have also told people they won't return drugs if they think the drugs will be "mis-used". Someone had his GBL taken, which is a perfectly legal drug, and the cops said they wouldn't return it as they thought it would be "mis-used".

[Pondlife]

I think there is a big difference between:

1. Asking the police for the stuff back, and they say "no"; and
2. Getting legal advice, formally requesting return, and being formally told "no" with no further recourse.

Could jaffacake and Evil GIR say which of the above was the case in their experience? Or which was closest to what happened.

I'm sure the Police often say "no, we won't give it back", but that doesn't always mean that you cannot get it back as Bikelbees' example shows.

[Solinari]

What would someone do if they got the jail for carrying fairly recently legally prescribed in the UK diazepam but for whatever reason, at the time they couldn't produce evidence of the prescription?

I think they would keep saying i was prescribed them, phone my doctor, phone the chemist or whatever. Just for arguments sake lets say they got the jail on a Sunday and were charged with Class C possession. Well the next day, that person would phone their doctor, tell them what happened, their doctor would probably try and confirm it, then they would get another prescription.

The only thing that the police might be liable for are prescription charges, and even then if it was only part of a prescription what would happen then?

Whether or not you are entitled to get these back (which i doubt) then it is still one for a lawyer to advise you on. Personally i think a lawyer would say take your losses and be thankful you were found not guilty, i am not asking for your val's and mogies back (and ativan and xanax).

[rocksmokinmachine]

A good legal representative could easily argue a good case for the return of the benzodiazepines, if for instance the user was unable to obtain another prescription for such drugs. Explaining the consequenes of abrupt withdrawal from benzodiazepines to a judge or magistrate would likely result in an order for thier return.

I am supposing SWIWASD has a vaild prescription for the nitrazepam and/or diazepam.

[jaffacake]

In the methylone case there was also some cannabis. The police said they would give a caution if they accepted the methylone and scales would be destroyed along with the cannabis, otherwise the case would be taken to court.

Perhaps a solicitor could make some headway in returning legal drugs, but I think you'd need to hit the jackpot magistrate-wise for him to agree to return drugs that he believes you are taking to get high.

[Bikelbees]

Originally Posted by jaffacake

In the methylone case there was also some cannabis. The police said they would give a caution if they accepted the methylone and scales would be destroyed along with the cannabis, otherwise the case would be taken to court.

Perhaps a solicitor could make some headway in returning legal drugs, but I think you'd need to hit the jackpot magistrate-wise for him to agree to return drugs that he believes you are taking to get high.

OIC, the drugs which one is allowed to own were seized with cannabis - that puts a different light on it and seemingly different to the query in this thread - Jaffacake, you based some very negative assertions across three posts on the evidence borne out of a potentially different set of circumstances. Where is the evidence that a magistrate (would be the appropriate person to seek redress from?) would know that the purpose of these items was anything other than a legitimate use?

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[wearestardust]

Firstly, may I tell Rocksmokinmachine that I live in the UK and alprazolam is prescribed to me, so where you get your information from is NOT a reliable source. I am legally prescribed 3mg/day, and have been dispensed both on NHS and Private prescription. Only the generic version is prescribable on the NHS, but the Private scripts are invariably filled (at Boot's anyway) with Pfizer/Upjohn/Pharmacia XANAX brand, which is banned from being prescribed on the NHS.
SWIWAS was in Court only this morning for sentence on several charges involving benzodiazepine drugs diazepam, flunitrazepam, and clonazepam. He was found not guilty of possession of alprazolam, diazepam, nitrazepam and lorazepam several weeks ago; he has asked his lawyer for assistance in getting back all the drugs which he was found not guilty of possessing, which includes ten morphine sulphate tablets. They are HIS property, and the Police have no right to hold onto them or destroy them. What I was asking in the original question was does anyone know the PROCEDURE for getting this property back? Because having accepted that SWIWAS was entitled to have them, and the fact that the Sheriff made NO order for forfeiture of any items, there is nothing in Law which says that the Police have any rights over them once the case is done and dusted. BTW, SWIWAS got given 100 hours of Community Service for the six charges of which he was found to be guilty, the most serious of which was the intent to supply a Class 'B' drug - dihydrocodeine.
WA*dust

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by wearestardust

What I was asking in the original question was does anyone know the PROCEDURE for getting this property back?

Well, I can honestly say I have never, ever heard of anyone being prescribed alprazolam in the UK, I have the prescribing reference for the general practice (MIMS) infront of me now (the latest copy might I add) and alprazolam does not appear under any of the benzodiazepines. I will take your word for it anyhow. Being prescribed 4 different benzo's at once seems a very extreme, even more for a country where the PCT hates giving benzodiazepines

The procedure to get SWIY's property back, is to wait 10 days after the case has finnished (unless the judge/magistrate ordered the forfiture and destruction of the drug), go to the front desk of the police station. Ask to speak to the property officer. Fill out a form, and return when you are told.

What does SWIY mean by sheriff, might I add?

[Solinari]

Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine

What does SWIY mean by sheriff, might I add?

In Scotland we (yes, i am Scottish) don't have the Magistrates and Crown court, we have 3 different courts, the District Court, the Sheriff Court and then the High Court.

I have never heard of alprazolam being prescribed in the UK either and my doctor didn't even know what it was. As for all four being prescribed, well that would be extremely unlikely unless you were using more than one doctor.

If someone had a legal prescription for this stuff it wouldn't get past the Procurator Fiscal (our Crown Prosecution equivalent). I still think it's unlikely you will get this stuff back.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Well then thats a totally different matter.

The original poster should have specified which country. I am not sure on the procedure in Scotland on how to obtain property.

Still, under private or NHS prescription I can't see a doctor giving out 4 different benzo's, including 2 short acting ones. UK GP's are very, very reluctant to give out diazepam prescriptions, even then they are mostly only available on a daily pick up. Normal, green prescriptions are hard to come by.