Health - Thoughts? - Dosage discrepency between oral & smoked in Research Chemicals

[trptamene]

So while discussing dosages of 5-meo-mipt in that drug info thread swimmers began to ask the question of why not freebasing these chemicals before vaporization?

In it's salt for these chemicals have a higher point of vaporization and yet must endure more heat to be vaporized than the respective freebase form. This means more of it is likely to degrade before recrystallization in the lungs.

In addition it seems to often be the case that smoked routes require less dosing over its oral counterpart. So there seems to be a problem with the fact that 20mg smoked moxy seems to equal 6-8mg oral moxy. This begs the question, how much of those 20mg is actually making it to the lungs as the active chemical and more worriesomely, what and where is the other 14mg of material?

Even in Shulgin's work he does not seem to make much mention of smoking different tryps/phens in their fb vs salt forms...just simply mentions "smoking"

So...should researchers interested in smoking these compounds make sure to freebase these before use? While this is an issue with dosing, it is more importanly likely an issue with health that I would certainly be interested in hearing peoples opinions on.

[chrisn]

I think we need a thread to gather all data about smoked RC's. Should this be the thread or should a different one be created? Sadly, I don't have any answers to your question, just another of mine own, being can 4-aco-dmt be smoked and relating to the previous question would salt vs freebase matter?

[trptamene]

This certainly would be an appropriate spot for this data to be compiled. Sorry I don't have a specific answer to your question.


Interestingly, AMT doses seem to be reasonably lower than oral...but I believe this is commonly available in freebase form...In addition Shulgin lists lower doses, but isolated the freebase. He mentions making the fumarate as well, but does not specify which is smoked...i assume is FB...i'd put money on that if it was the hcl or fumarate the dosing would be higher (even compensating for the extra weight in the anion).

[Samadhi]

Swim believes that converting to freebase is very important in measuring the difference. swim has yet to get his chemist friend to convert his 5-meo-mipt to freebase so he can tell the forum.

[TMM]

Does anyone have experience with smoking freebase mushroom alkaloids, psilocybin and psilocin in particular? I've seen one vague report wherein extracted alkaloids were vaporised, with short and potent effects that could perhaps to be likened to DMT, but one report is not much to go on. It's something I've been thinking about recently and not an area I've ever seen really explored. Information on similar RCs, 4-AcO-DMT for example, would also be very useful.