USA - The Glorified Drug Dealers (medical doctors)

[beentheredonethatagain]

Experiment shows medical doctors to be glorified drug dealers, easily manipulated by drug companys

Here’s some fascinating news in the world of medicine that really shows the drug racket -- the huge prescription drug scam taking place in this country today. Researchers sent a group of people, who said they saw the drug Paxil in a TV advertisement, into doctors’ offices.

Many of these patients didn't even show signs of depression, but when they named the drug, 50 percent were diagnosed as having depression, and 55 percent were given a prescription for the exact prescription drug they named.

In fact, it turns out that when people named Paxil, they were more than five times as likely to be given a prescription for it than someone who didn't name it. This simple experiment demonstrates how many doctors are puppets of the pharmaceutical industry; they're glorified drug dealers.

I've been saying this for years, as have many others in the natural health community, but now this experiment clearly demonstrates it. Medical doctors claim to be scientifically trained. They claim to be rational people. They say that everything's a formula, so people are only given prescriptions that are medically necessary.

But when a patient comes in and mentions the name of a drug, all that rationality and all that so-called scientific thinking gets thrown out the window. Over half the time, the doctor's just going to write out a prescription for the exact drug that the patient named, whether or not it is medically necessary.

In other words, the whole system of prescription drugs and using doctors is a giant con. When pharmaceutical companies run these advertisements directly to consumers, they know these consumers are going to go to their doctor and name the drug, resulting in a sale of that drug.

And that's why direct-to-consumer advertising -- drug advertising on television, magazines, and so on -- remains legal. It was illegal, but the FDA legalized it in 1997 to generate profits for the drug companies that the FDA seems sworn to protect. Since then, the drug industry and prescriptions have boomed. Now we have more than 40 percent of the population on prescriptions, nearly all of which are medically unnecessary.

Prescription drugs by themselves are a giant sham, because none of them treat the underlying causes of ill health. They only mask the symptoms of disease, or try to interfere with the body's basic biochemistry.

And the real story on these prescription drugs isn't being told, because these pharmaceutical companies are funding billions and billions of dollars each year in media advertising. They're controlling the budgets of these media companies by running so many ads. Because of this, the media companies out there don't want to say anything bad about these prescription drugs.

And so the message out there continues to be, "Take more drugs! Look, here's a miracle drug for cancer; here's a miracle drug for erectile dysfunction; here's a miracle drug for sinus congestion, high cholesterol, or high blood pressure..." They just name one thing after another. They run the ads, the patients hear the drug name, they run into their doctors' offices to request the drug, and they get a prescription. What a con!

And it's a brilliant con, because it involves so many different parties. The FDA makes sure these ads remain legal, and that the drug companies generate all sorts of profits.

The FDA even makes sure dangerous drugs stay on the market even when they're killing people. And there are doctors who are trained at medical schools infiltrated by the drug companies. When doctors train for four years, they basically study some anatomy and physiology and then, of course, drugs, surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy.

They learn how to diagnose diseases and think of them all as being chemical disorders that can be treated through pharmacology and prescription drugs. The drug companies practically run many of these medical schools.


Glorified drug dealers
And now, experiments like this one reveal most general practitioner doctors as the glorified drug dealers that they are. They just write prescriptions for anyone who walks through the door.

And that's really sad, because I know that's not the intention of many of these doctors, but the difficult and fascinating thing is that even doctors don't realize when they're being influenced. Patients certainly don't realize it.

Consumers are heavily influenced by TV advertising, yet if you survey 1,000 consumers and ask them if they're being influenced, over 900 will say, "No, we're not being influenced at all". They'll say, "I make my own rational decisions about what to buy or what not to buy, based on my own information. I don't pay attention to ads." And yet, study after study shows that ads actually work. Patients buy the products advertised and request prescriptions for advertised pharmaceuticals in their doctors' offices. Stated flatly, patients aren't aware that they're being influenced and neither are doctors.


Drug companies exploit this seduction, this form of influence, to create demand for products in the minds of consumers, and then to make sure these consumers go to their doctors' offices and request those products, thus generating sales.


How the drug machine really operates
And of course the pharmacists are all involved in this; they're just filling out the orders. They're like the little machine grinders in this whole system, this whole con of organized medicine.

Somebody’s actually got to fill the bottles and dispense the pills, and that's what the pharmacists do. And somebody's got to write their prescriptions, that's what the doctors do. Somebody's got to act like they're providing an education on health, and that's what the medical schools do.

Somebody's got to provide the so-called scientific evidence that provides some sort of justification for all of this, and that's what the medical journals do, and of course, they're largely funded by the drug companies. Finally, someone has to give all this the stamp of government approval, and that's what the FDA does.


So this whole sham, this whole drug racket, has many different players, most of whom are highly-paid professionals and smart people. Wouldn't it be great if they actually did something productive for society, rather than writing dangerous, highly toxic prescriptions out to people... rather than impairing the long-term health of our population to generate billions of dollars in profits for the pharmaceutical companies? Wouldn't it be great if all these smart people did something useful? Instead, they're just part of the drug racket, part of the system of organized medicine that masquerades as "scientific medicine."


Where's the science in scientific medicine?
I find the circular logic involved in all this fascinating, because we've again shown how the prescribing behavior of doctors is not rational. When a patient names a drug, all that training, rationality, and scientific thought just gets thrown out the window in favor of circular logic. For example, the organized medical community claims that all drugs approved by the FDA are scientifically sound.

It's science-based medicine, because articles about those drugs have been published in the journals. And who edits those journals? Who are the gatekeepers who decide which articles get published and which ones don't? They are the doctors who are often on the payroll of drug companies. The drug companies fund the advertisements for the journals. And many of the FDA bureaucrats benefit financially, as they own stock options in these pharmaceutical companies.
Of course, the medical schools also rake in all sorts of money from doctors. So, what passes as organized or scientific medicine is actually whatever they say it is.

It has no real scientific basis. Most of these studies are distorted anyway. You've seen how the drug companies will run twelve different studies on their drug, six of which will come up with positive results and six with negative. They bury the six that are bad and just show the six that are good. Those are the studies they forward to the FDA and say, "Look! Our drug is proven!" And the FDA will say, "It sure is! Let's rubber stamp this drug for approval!"

And then the drug companies say, “Let's start bribing doctors and giving them free trips, vacations, and lunches and let’s send them checks for $10,000 as a 'consulting fee.'" "Let's get those doctors to prescribe all of these drugs." And that's how the system works. It's all circular reasoning. There is no real science happening. The whole thing is a giant charade.

To top it off, the real healing efforts in alternative medicine are routinely discredited by organized medicine. These healers are using herbal medicine with over 2,500 years of proven clinical use and millions of hours of clinical experience.

I'm talking about traditional Chinese medicine, Western herbs, Ayurvedic medicine, acupuncture, massage therapy, homeopathy and other modalities in the alternative medicine realm. Organized medicine says "Those aren't proven -- only our stuff is proven. Your stuff is not proven." But of course, all their stuff is the circular reasoning I was talking about. They dismiss everything outside of the corrupt system that generates profits for them.


Organized medicine is a lot like a cult
You see, scientific medicine is whatever the high priests of organized medicine deem it to be. This is why I've often described organized medicine as a cult; it is not science. True scientists ask nature what's going on. They try to find out how the universe really works. A true scientist is a humble person, a humble student, and a curious servant of nature. A true scientist runs experiments, or asks questions and tries to get nature to provide some answers.

But modern doctors, medical researchers, drug company executives, and FDA bureaucrats think they've conquered nature. They have egos so big it's amazing they can walk through doors. They think they are better than nature. They think they can overtake the nature of your body, overriding the chemistry.

They think they can run your immune system, or that they can declare war on your body, attacking it with chemotherapy, radiation and other highly toxic therapies. They think they're smarter than nature.

They think they can take a plant out of nature, synthesize a molecule, and make it better. And then they can patent it and own the intellectual property, suing anybody else who tries to create the same molecule, even though nature has been creating the natural version of that molecule for eons. This is what the people in organized medicine think.

They think they're the smartest people in the universe -- smarter than Mother Nature, smarter than God. And in fact, they're going to play God with your body using weird, freaky gene therapy experiments. They're putting human genes into plants now, trying to clone everything under the sun. They think they are God.


Real scientists are humble
Now a real scientist, as I said, is a humble servant of nature. A true scientist is curious and wants to find out how things work, and a true scientist, by the way, does not have a predefined set of filters in place that automatically reject new ideas.

When Burzynski developed the antineoplastons for cancer therapies, a new therapy for actually curing cancer, organized medicine, if it had been scientific, should have welcomed his work with open arms. They should have said, "Thank God! Someone has come along with a cure for cancer. Thank God someone has some new theories." But no; they vilified him.
They turned him into a criminal.

The FDA pursued him, sued him, oppressed him, and ostracized him from medicine. They've tried to suppress his work. Why? He had real solutions. If they have a cure for cancer, what would that mean for all the anti-cancer drugs out there? Think how many people would lose their jobs if there were a cure for cancer.

Some people would say that our national economy depends on cancer, and it depends on having all these chronic diseases. Gotta have diabetes; otherwise, what's going to happen to all these people employed in the medical community? What about all these nurses, pharmacists, doctors, researchers, people in the nonprofits, publishers, and drug company executives? What will they do for jobs if all these diseases are cured?

Some people would say it would be a national security issue, because if you cure these diseases, then suddenly the economy changes. Suddenly you've got a lot of people out of work.

And so, I believe the organized medical system doesn't want cures for these diseases. In fact, they have gone out of their way to vilify these cures, to filter them out or to discredit them. They don't want cures for these diseases; they want drugs to manage them. They want a patient who has to buy a pill today, tomorrow, and every day, for the rest of his life, because that generates profits.

They don't want something to cure that patient, sending him away healthy and happy and never in need of more drugs, surgeries, or imaging tests. Just like crack dealers, they want somebody who's addicted to their drugs. They want somebody who's going to smoke that crack every day for the rest of their lives.

Pharmaceutical companies are the same way. They want somebody who's stuck on their drugs, who depends on them. That's why you often read about "disease management" in organized medicine’s literature. “Disease management” is even used in reference to chronic stress, which is a big killer.

It depletes antioxidants, raises blood pressure, is bad for your cardiovascular health, and even promotes cancer. But when those in organized medicine talk about stress, they often use the term "stress management." Let's manage your stress, so that you can have a little bit of stress each and every day. And you still depend on us to manage it.

I prefer to teach people how to ELIMINATE stress, to be stress free. Same thing with diseases. Doctors say there's no cure for diabetes. I say hogwash! There are many cures for diabetes. Adult-onset type 2 diabetes is one of the easiest diseases to reverse, and I mean completely reverse, through diet, nutrition, and lifestyle changes. You don't need a single drug to treat that disease.

Cancer is much the same way. It is one of the easiest diseases to reverse, as long as it hasn't got so advanced that the patient's own immune system is completely shot. Your body has already reversed cancer 1,000 times or more in your lifetime; your immune system gets rid of cancer cells all the time. If you're diagnosed with cancer, it's because your immune system failed. If that happens, curing your cancer really just involves reminding your immune system how to do its job and giving it the nutritional tools that it needs to heal itself.


Why doctors hate the internet
So the overall theme to all of this is of course that organized medicine is a giant scam. The defenders of that system are really frustrated today, because experiments like this reveal that doctors just prescribe whatever patients name. Patients will get prescriptions for whatever drugs they mention.

Doctors hate the internet, too, by the way. They think that patients who get information online are dangerous, because people shouldn't educate themselves. Doctors think all online health information should be censored, approved by the FDA. They think that you shouldn't be able to talk about health, disease treatment, or drugs online. It's dangerous for people to have too much information, don't you know. A little bit of book burning would go right along with that.

But the whole system is a sham, and, by the way, it is failing. It is on its way out. Organized medicine will soon be history, because patients are realizing that it doesn't work.

They are figuring out that taking a lot of prescription drugs multiplies their risk of death, and they are also realizing that prescription drugs don't really help them in any significant way. Yes, they might mask symptoms on a temporary basis, but they don't make anyone fundamentally healthier over the long term.

In fact, people are discovering that they feel terrible when they take these drugs. They feel more fatigued; they start having brain fog; their muscles hurt; then they have side effects to treat with more prescription drugs. It's just a cascading set of symptoms and drugs, which is good for profits in the pharmaceutical industry, but doesn't help people.


The FDA and crimes against humanity
People are also realizing that the FDA is highly corrupt. The FDA actually sat down, looked at Vioxx and the Cox-2 class of drugs, all of these arthritis painkillers, and said, "We realize they've killed about 60,000 people in this country alone, but they're still safe." Imagine that!

The FDA essentially sat down and said, "You know what? Not enough people are dead yet to pull this drug off the market." And they actually said, "Let's give the drug makers the okay to put these Cox-2 inhibitors back on the market." Meanwhile, people are dying of heart attacks and strokes in huge numbers, but the FDA says, "No, not enough. Not enough people dead yet."


I guess the body count has to really get huge before the FDA says something's dangerous. I don't know; 60,000 people sounds like a lot of people dead to me, especially since the Bush administration started a second war in Iraq over the deaths of far fewer people than that. Where's the war on Big Pharma and the FDA who are collectively killing 100,000+ Americans each year?

I often compare this atrocity to the Vietnam War. We lost about 50,000 Americans in it. This means that one class of prescription drugs all by itself has killed more Americans than the entire Vietnam War. And yet, the FDA says, "Oh, it's safe. It's safe!" Well, apparently it's more dangerous than being shot at on the battlefield. But that's safe enough for the FDA.


How many Americans have to die?
I often wonder what the threshold is here. Do we have to have a chemical holocaust in this country before the FDA wants to do something to protect people? I mean, how many people have to die before we ban drug advertising on television.

How many people? The body count keeps adding up each and every day, but the machine keeps on running, and all of organized medicine’s defenders keep on defending it. They say, "Oh yeah. Come on in. Get your drugs. We'll write them out for you. Go to your pharmacist, and get them prescribed for you. Keep taking them every day. What, do you have a pain? Here's another drug. Do you feel down? Oh! We've got a drug for that too. That's right.

Oh, you feel nervous in front of people? Have trouble speaking in public? We have a drug for that, and bring in your kids too! We have drugs for them. They have trouble learning or concentrating? Are they too playful? We can 'tone down' that creativity and learning ability. We can keep them under control. Oh, yeah! Bring your husband in too; we have stuff for him. Stuff for his prostate, and give him a little bit of Viagra. We have prescriptions for everything!"

Smart people are ditching conventional medicine
Who uses prescription drugs today? I'll tell you who. People who don't know any better. In contrast, people who are informed about health -- intelligent, well-educated, smart people -- are turning to natural medicine, natural health.

They're focusing on their foods and on avoiding the toxins in the food supply. They're avoiding dangerous personal care products, artificial fragrances, deodorants containing aluminum, and shampoos with unnatural ingredients.

They are engaging in physical exercise, body movement, cardiovascular training, strength training, tai chi, Pilates, martial arts, and swimming - you name it.

And they're exercising their brains by turning off the television and engaging in creative activities. Even game playing with friends is good for your brain. Crossword puzzles are a great exercise. These are the things that well-educated people are doing.

This is what the healthy people in our society have figured out works. It's all about the foods; it's all about the exercise. It's getting natural sunlight on your skin, drinking fresh water, and avoiding all those consumer products the corporations want you to buy.

They want you to buy the soft drinks, the snack chips, the homogenized milk products, all those sweets and candies, drugs, cosmetics, personal care products, perfumes and colognes, air fresheners, carpet cleaners, and dryer sheets. Boy, they want you to buy that stuff! But none of that stuff makes you healthy; in fact, most of it gives you disease.


Only uneducated people will rely on prescription drugs
Soon, organized medicine will be relegated only to those extremely uneducated people in society.

It's going to be the low-income, low-education people who turn to organized medicine. This is the same crowd, by the way, that smokes a lot of cigarettes and buys a lot of brand name foods. People with low wages tend to have a lot of chronic diseases, and are the ones who are stuck in the system of organized medicine.

Unfortunately, and I often mention this, these are the people that we need to help the most. It's difficult to do that, as it's hard to educate people who often aren't really open to new ideas. They just want to know if they're covered by health insurance, and that's it. They don't really want to learn about what to eat and what not to eat.

The dark history of modern medicine
But the future of medicine is in disease prevention, healing modalities, and energetic medicine -- phototherapy, electromedicine, vibrational nutrition, homeopathy, and so on. The future of medicine is in true healing. And I believe that in the future, people will look back at the time period we're in right now and be amazed. They'll say, "How could these people have just poisoned the entire population with chemicals, and even advertised them on TV!?

How could people even call themselves doctors when all they did was write prescription drugs for people? They're just drug dealers. How dare they even call themselves doctors? And how could the medical schools not even teach nutrition? How could it be?!" Foods and nutrition are the foundation of health, yet doctors are being given virtually no education whatsoever in this area.
I tell you, future historians will look back at this time and they will think we were absolutely nuts.

They will think we were crazy. They will think we were off our rockers to poison the entire population through our food supply, and then try to mask the symptoms of that through more poison called "prescription drugs." The whole system is absurd.

So I say the game is up. The whole system is a fraud. We now know it, thanks to the internet, to some really creative studies coming out, to the statistics, and to people like Dr. David Graham -- the FDA’s chief drug safety scientist who has been willing to stand up and tell the truth about these dangerous Cox-2 inhibitors.

Thanks to people like that, we now know the truth. We know the FDA is corrupt. We know the drug companies are out to exploit every American citizen just to make a profit, no matter how many people are killed. We know that doctors are just glorified drug dealers, and we know that medical schools are nothing but pre-training for glorified drug dealing. It's all a sad joke!


Why would you want to be an old-school anyway?
People like Dr. Andrew Weil are trying to make changes out there. He's more effective in the medical community than a guy like me, as I just tend to anger all the doctors.

But he actually works with them, because he's an MD; he can help doctors transition from old school medicine to new school medicine. I really admire his work. He's doing a fantastic job, and he can speak the language of general practitioners. He knows how to talk to MDs in their language. I don't, and I don't try to.

I think MDs are irrelevant because naturopathic physicians are the future. I think MDs should go out and change their careers. Go to Bastyr University and get a real education in health. MDs, you’re on the way out.

We need a nation where the smartest people -- the professionals, the pharmacists, the doctors, the researchers, and so on -- actually engage in things that help people, not things that hurt people. I mean, it should be common sense, right? Shouldn’t our smartest people be thinking about ways to actually help people be healthier instead of just keeping them diseased and on drugs for the rest of their lives? I think so.


Join the natural health community
If you're reading this, chances are that you already know most of this. You're already taking care of your health in a way that far exceeds what most people are doing.

You have probably already experienced some of the benefits of natural health, or maybe you've experienced some of the negative side effects of prescription drugs and are ready to make a change now. Well, I say, "Welcome to the light side of the force!" Things are good over here. We are healthier. We're happier.

We have good, solid self-esteem without huge egos. We feel comfortable about who we are, and we can help heal others around us by sharing information about what really works. We know when to say no to the drug companies, the doctors, or the pharmaceutical companies. We know how to be skeptical consumers.

So I encourage you to keep investigating, and keep investing in yourself. Keep learning more about health, nutrition, and wellness. And don't follow your doctor's advice if he or she says all of this is useless and discourage you from learning on your own.

Fire that doctor and find yourself a new one. Work with a doctor who encourages you to educate yourself. Work with a doctor who takes the time to sit down and talk to you about lifestyle changes that can make a difference. Work with a doctor who can help you get off of prescription drugs to return to normal, healthy body function. And there are many doctors out there like that.

Again, I don't mean to paint every doctor into the same corner; just because they have the initials MD after their names, it doesn't mean they're complete idiots when it comes to health.

Many doctors actually do understand health, and in fact, most of the people I admire out there, those who are the real pioneers in natural health, started out as MDs. Some of the best authors are MDs.

So examine doctors with caution. Make sure they know something beyond medical school because medical school's a joke. It's what they learned outside of medical school that really matters. And it's also how they're willing to work with you. Are they willing to communicate?

Do they listen to you? Did they ask you good questions? Do they really have compassion for you, and do they really seem to have an interest in your health outcome, rather than just getting you out of the office so they can see the next patient? You have a choice, and I encourage you to exercise that choice.
http://www.naturalnews.com/009173.html

Reputation Comments on this post:

	great post on exposing a practice that needs to be curtailed.
	damn good reading
	Fascinating stuff, thanks for posting.
	important point and fascinating article

[RaverHippie]

I went to a normal doctor for the first time in my life recently because I needed to get immunization shots so I could go to college. I was absolutely dumbfounded with all the prescription drug advertisements. Tens of posters, pens, pamphlets on multiple displays. There was even a television monitor setup like an arcade machine that was interactive with the patient's symptoms and then would recommend a specific prescription to "help them get better" It made me never want to step outside my chiropractor's office ever again.

While I was in the office a solicitor from some drug company came in to speak with the doctor I was waiting to see and the drug solicitor saw my doctor first, then dropped off a stack of clipboards that could be used around the office. . .

Reputation Comments on this post:

yeah, it is the same at my dr's office

[old hippie 56]

Most doctors will see a drug rep before a patient, because the reps are always handing bribes out. Airline tickets, food, free drugs.

[Euphoric]

An interesting read but it sorely lacks citations. Where are the references and the details regarding the studies? Where are the details and studies regarding these natural cancer and diabetes cures?

Reputation Comments on this post:

critical questions re: the validity of the info in the OP

[Heretic.Ape.]

^ Substantiation of claims? Citations? You must be one of those fancy-pansy college students or something lol. wonderful point.

[Paracelsus]

What else expect from a site called NaturalNews? Why is this in News, anyways? It's an article (not news article) from 2005.

[Heretic.Ape.]

meh, good as place as any I suppose. Why aren't you in the chat sucka! lol

[LSD-25]

It's a shame that the most dangerous drugs are legal for medical purposes, and the least dangerous ones are schedule I drugs.

[beentheredonethatagain]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

What else expect from a site called NaturalNews? Why is this in News, anyways? It's an article (not news article) from 2005.

I agree with you , and I did think twice about posting it, here's why I did.

The majority of members here, or from what I have gathered, are the open minded type, open to the natural and spiritual plane.

More apt to get herbal and bontanical cures oposed to a unproven or dangerous substance.

I know I would.

[cra$h]

swim would love to injest an all natural plant vs. a chemically engineered substance, not just for reacrational purposes, but for medicinal from chronic back pains that require oxycontin, or a headache that require tylenol. swim doesnt trust the unatural drugs

[CrakkBakk]

Way too long, couldn't read the whole thing.

Do you really think that all mental disorders are made up and a lie by the pharmecutical industries to get us on drugs?

You've never had a mental disorder and can not vouch for this. I personally know what it is like to have a mental disorder (bipolar) and personally know that the drugs I have been prescribed help.

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by CrakkBakk

Way too long, couldn't read the whole thing.

Do you really think that all mental disorders are made up and a lie by the pharmecutical industries to get us on drugs?

You've never had a mental disorder and can not vouch for this. I personally know what it is like to have a mental disorder (bipolar) and personally know that the drugs I have been prescribed help.

if you do not have the time to read it. granted it is long, but still why mention?
No mental illnesses are not made up. they are based around symptoms people exhibit either in there behavior or cogitative traits or personality.

Just because someone has never had a mental health disorder does not mean they cannot understand and also not all medications are helpful. to people due to the side effects of there medications some of which they have no understandings of how they work still. good that it works for you but does not apply to everyone.

[beentheredonethatagain]

Originally Posted by CrakkBakk

Way too long, couldn't read the whole thing.

Do you really think that all mental disorders are made up and a lie by the pharmecutical industries to get us on drugs?

You've never had a mental disorder and can not vouch for this. I personally know what it is like to have a mental disorder (bipolar) and personally know that the drugs I have been prescribed help.

and you know that I have not had any mental illness , how?

and be that as it may, I have been married to a young lady who has had her share of problems like being manic and bi-polar. but besides that I know not what I am talking about.

[silentghost]

Wow. Do you really believe this garbage? Sketchy/non-existent sources at best. Total conspiracy nut case needs to get off the ephedra and back into reality!

SWIM has done extensive work in the pharmacy business, especially in dealing with customers. Doctors (even lazy pharmacists) will usually prescribe name-brand meds because thats what they are use to and have trusted since before the generics arrived. Also, don't forget many Asian and south American generic manufacturers will definitely cut whatever safety corners they can, because they are not worried about any lawsuits from US citizens. While US generics are extensively tested, SWIM does worry about ones made outside the country. Make sure you research the markings on the pill. I do believe just last week there was blue spray paint found in pills coming in from peurto rico.

The truth is, and SWIM spent 90% of his time simply educating sick people about generics and how they are just as effective at a fraction of the cost. Still, I have to say 25% of people would still stick with name brand, because they "felt" better on it, or "its what the doc said". But hey, never ever underestimate the power of the power of suggestion and placebo pills (Zicam anyone?).

As for the 75% of people who SWIM helped save thousands of dollars each year, they still thank me to this day. It literally saved some people's lives to find a lower cost, equally as effective, brand. Still though, its people's own stupid fault if they refuse to open their eyes and fight against BigPharma monopolies. SWIM and his pharmacist don't give a rats ass about what "brand" the doc prescribes, SWIM will get the most reliable and effective meds and at a great price.

ALso, a word to the wise, don't buy into all these "natural medicine"/"Anti-Pharmaceutical" articles. So called natural medicines are a big industry, with very rich people playing off the ignorance of normal Americans, just as bad as BigPharma. Best of all, natural herbals are not regulated at all by the FDA, so you might as well eat some rat poison. Do yourself a favor, read clinical trials, experiment with different drugs, and learn what works best for you. You are your own best doctor.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post
	good advice, I believe there is a balance somewhere in the middle, CVS has good PSE pills, btw
	Thanks for bringing these points to the discussion
	extremely relevant points

[beentheredonethatagain]

Originally Posted by silentghost

Wow. Do you really believe this garbage? Sketchy/non-existent sources at best. Total conspiracy nut case needs to get off the ephedra and back into reality!

SWIM has done extensive work in the pharmacy business, especially in dealing with customers. Doctors (even lazy pharmacists) will usually prescribe name-brand meds because thats what they are use to and have trusted since before the generics arrived. Also, don't forget many Asian and south American generic manufacturers will definitely cut whatever safety corners they can, because they are not worried about any lawsuits from US citizens. While US generics are extensively tested, SWIM does worry about ones made outside the country. Make sure you research the markings on the pill. I do believe just last week there was blue spray paint found in pills coming in from peurto rico.

The truth is, and SWIM spent 90% of his time simply educating sick people about generics and how they are just as effective at a fraction of the cost. Still, I have to say 25% of people would still stick with name brand, because they "felt" better on it, or "its what the doc said". But hey, never ever underestimate the power of the power of suggestion and placebo pills (Zicam anyone?).

As for the 75% of people who SWIM helped save thousands of dollars each year, they still thank me to this day. It literally saved some people's lives to find a lower cost, equally as effective, brand. Still though, its people's own stupid fault if they refuse to open their eyes and fight against BigPharma monopolies. SWIM and his pharmacist don't give a rats ass about what "brand" the doc prescribes, SWIM will get the most reliable and effective meds and at a great price.

ALso, a word to the wise, don't buy into all these "natural medicine"/"Anti-Pharmaceutical" articles. So called natural medicines are a big industry, with very rich people playing off the ignorance of normal Americans, just as bad as BigPharma. Best of all, natural herbals are not regulated at all by the FDA, so you might as well eat some rat poison. Do yourself a favor, read clinical trials, experiment with different drugs, and learn what works best for you. You are your own best doctor.

I will agree with that , you have to be open to what is out there , mainstream or alternative, the answer lies within

[Paracelsus]

Richard Dawkins once wrote, "There is no alternative medicine. There is only medicine that works and medicine that doesn't work." That pretty much hits the hammer on the head.

[Coconut]

I used to have very serious clinical depression. I was prescribed citalopram. It did nothing for me. When I stopped taking them and sorted a few things out in my life, I started to feel a bit better. Now I've reached a state of relative contentment. I haven't acheived happiness but I'm not in emotional ruin either.

It is my opinion that drugs are over-prescribed. I believe drugs are tools which can be used beneficially in moderation and detrimentally in excess. The latter seems to be prevalent these days.

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bingo

[Heretic.Ape.]

^ Very well said. Also on the matter of Dawkins' statement of there being medicine that works and medicine that doesn't, I would encourage people to look into the actual statistical efficacy of various medications such as anti-depressants, etc. Snake oil can be sold as a tonic from a new-ager or as a pill from a doctor.

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True, it's not only traditional medicine that is ineffective at times

[Ilsa]

Originally Posted by savingJenniB

Couple of points here ~ just caught this thread for first time tonight and seems particularly relevant because my grandfather has been seeing all these doctors and all of them are telling him to take this & take that and it turns out when you mix this with than it can kinda curdle your blood. . . . or make you bleed in other places, i guess.

But the truth is that when my grandfather goes to these doctors he expects them to give him pills / prescriptions. He honestly believes that all medicine works.

If the doctor were to just tell him the truth, "You are old and we can't really fix that."

He would feel like he was getting ripped off. Coming home from the doctor with a bottle full of meds is tangible proof that he's getting something for his money. He compares going to doctor with taking his car to a mechanic. "If they don't fix my car ~ don't change the oil or fail to replace some needed part ~ then why should I pay?"

A good doctor has to be constantly juggling between prescribing medication and practicing medicine. A mediocre, tired, or bored doctor has learned that drug pushing is less work, less stressful and comes with mega-support and fringe benefits from the pharmaceutical companies.

All too often nowadays we go to a doctor expecting a prescription ~ an all powerful fix-it-pill. Or with the sole purpose of obtaining a prescription ~ packing premeditated symptoms for negotiating drug of choice. The pharmaceutical companies have sold us a bill of goods, and we're happy to buy it.

Truth be told most of us would be very uncomfortable and dissatisfied with a doctor who refused to prescribe meds. "Fresh air and exercise? Diet, meditation and 8 hours of sleep? What are you? A personal trainer? Are you really a doctor? Or did you loose your license or something?"

good point--the medical establishment is indeed extremely screwed up in many serious ways, but it is also a function of a society that wants a quick fix...we treat symptoms, not root issues. as has already been stated, it's not in the interest of the pharma companies to get you totally better--then you don't need to buy their drugs. it IS, however, the ethical duty of doctors to get you better. unfortunately i do think this is being compromised by pressure from the pharma companies as well as pressure from patients, who do tend to feel ripped off if they pay a doctor a tidy little chunk of money for an office visit and walk out with nothing. i'd love it if doctors started treating more holistically, rather than symptomatically, but that won't happen. it'd also be great if everyone started eating more healthfully, excercising, etc, but i know that's not going to happen overnight either. it's easy to try and nail one component of the problem (the doctors) to the wall, but we as a society also have to take responsibility and live differently, be more willing to address our issues rather than cover them with chemical band-aids. only then will the lack of demand quell the overwhelming supply of pharmaceuticals flooding the market. some money might even go towards *gasp* curiosity-driven approaches to the science of medicine--remember the discovery of penicillin? fleming was curious about those little clearings of killed bacteria that weren't supposed to be there, but had been left out too long accidentally. "why did that happen?" he must have wondered...and thus began the age of antibiotics.

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great post

[Handle]

Originally Posted by CrakkBakk

Way too long, couldn't read the whole thing.

Do you really think that all mental disorders are made up and a lie by the pharmecutical industries to get us on drugs?

You've never had a mental disorder and can not vouch for this. I personally know what it is like to have a mental disorder (bipolar) and personally know that the drugs I have been prescribed help.

Aarrrgghhh my god CrakkBakk, I am so pissed off with this comment. Saying I've had bipolar, and the drugs helped me doesn't prove anything to me, in my opinion.

You are entitled to your say, and I wouldn't want to suggest that your opinions be given any less acceptance just because I disagree, but I have had depression as well.

For me, getting my intake of amino acid precursors to serotonin boosted was what made me feel much better.

But in my own opinion, and no I don't have peer reviewed journal articles to back me up, saying "I'm handle and I was depressed" doesn't prove anything about drug companies.

I'm telling the truth, i have seen documentaries, in depth, about the massive over diagnosis of bipolar and the only tool used seems to be ever increasing doses of drugs. I saw doctors, no matter what patients told them, who were prescribing SSRI's in ever-increasing doses, patients who asked for the quaint old notion of "talking therapy" [actual human involvement in discussing the recovery of their mindset as well as serotonin levels] were totally ignored, told to just "Wait and see if this new dosage works out for you before we go down that road"

So then, actually talking and being helped personally with spoken therapy becomes the last resort, and in lower economic strata, like lower middle class and working class, doctors are proven far more likely to just dole out pills rather than invest time and effort into talking. That gets reserved for the upper middle to upper classes, who can afford doctors that find it worth their while to talk to their patients, because they can demand an hourly rate that makes more cash for them than pushing pills.

Sorry, but as I said, I don't have a shred of evidence to support my claims, but what is this anyway, a members forum or Nature ?

My only defence for what I'm saying is an appeal to think coldly. people join cults all the time, and come out saying "I was vaguely unfulfilled, but "Church A" diagnosed there was this particular thing wrong with me, and they've cured it. I feel much better now"

My point is, the medical establishment is one of many outlets chosen by those who have some problem in their life. You could just as easily go to sport, churches, illegal drugs, art or new friends or a partner to feel better about your life. Whatever "fix" you look for, your problem will be diagnosed by them according to what they know best. A dietitian will tell you it's a dietary problem, AA or NA will say you need their group because it was personal weakness that made you unhappy, but their solidarity will support you, a church might say it was sin or a lack of God in your life, sport might say you just needed some fresh air and exercise.

And many people can be found who will testify that those things were indeed the root of their unhappiness, and that the specific answer they found is what fixed it.

DOctors and antidepressants are one of those things. Your unhappiness, a period of instability in your life, relationship breakdown or job loss can all get attributed to depression, or bipolar disorder, or whatever the medical profession can fit and feel they can fix.

But guess what? If we stringently over-applied the criteria used to diagnose mental illnesses on everyone, nobody would escape the drug pushing docs.

And it's not just bipolar that this applies to, [although that is one of the leading diagnoses today, or in my opinion, overdiagnoses] it's also stuff like ADHD, and now even antipsychotics sales are being boosted with heaps of "off label prescribing".

As I said, if we were all a bit unwary of confirmatory bias, we would get diagnosed with everything. And guess what? People do! In the same doco I mentioned earlier, this kid was being given lithium, SSRI's, ritalin, valium, and even zyprexa, then finally powerful heart medicine as a sedative!

Sadly, some of the leading doctors in the country, made out to be 'experts' are also the biggest over-prescribers. The harvard 'expert' in the doco, when confronted with these incredible rates of drugging among [especially] children, he said, basically, yes, and I believe there are far larger chunks of the population that should be getting more.

What I'm saying is, writing a post where you say "I was told I had so and so, and they cured it" doesn't prove much to me. It just proves that you have gone along with a certain mindset that might be correct, and may indeed be a solution to what are very real symptoms that could cause a lot of suffering in your life, and provide relief from the disruption with minimal side effects.

But though that might well be your example, there are many people who
a) have bought into the same mindset, but maybe got talked into it and didn't have the full range of symptoms, yet nevertheless are now receiving "treatment" or
b) found that their symptoms were real, but got some other approach that might have served them just as well, like sport, or diet etc.

One last comparison. Termites are real, we all know that, and many houses do indeed have termites. But pest exterminator companies don't make it their business to calm people down and think it's not a problem. Their business interests make it desirable for them to diagnose as much termite infestation as possible, and tapping a wall might give an ambiguous result, but everyone whose income depends on how rapidly they can diagnose and treat a problem gets conditioned by the benefits they receive every time they diagnose that problem quickly and in the way they have been trained.
Doctors don't make money by prescribing you a better diet, nobody offers kickbacks for that.

But all the time we know drug companies do want to, and do, dole out kickbacks for drug prescriptions. We can kick and scream and say it's mean to doctors, you know, they are professional and ethical, but we have seen the structures of drug company operation, they do provide many many incentives, from simple and innocent, to complex and pernicious, as a way of motivating the doctors to prescribe their products. Some of them have been mentioned here in the posts and are obvious to anyone who walks in a doctor's surgery.

Doctors are no different from or worse than anyone else, and that includes naturopaths and herbal practitioners. Everybody works in their industry self interest, one of the simplest reasons is they are trained to work from their training. They can't operate according to someone else's training. A naturopath is no expert in what antibiotics will fix what particular infection, that is not their training, so they can't help you with that. Doctors have reciprocal limitations upon their area of expertise, they can only go from their training, and that is all directed to "current" treatments the research for which is all funded with a view to marketing a viable drug, that doesn't matter if governments fund it or drug companies [but again, the undeniable and easily checked fact is, most drug research is funded by drug companies].
Everyone can say those structures are unavoidable and they are not sinister, ok, maybe, but those structures are there. A doctor's training is to research what latest drugs are available to the industry, because as an industry, pharmaceutical companies cannot turn a buck off stuff that is non physical, like talking therapy, and they can't make money off something you can't patent, like natural stuff.

Just saying "I had depression therefore amino acids are the answer" is just as wrong as saying I had bipolar and big pharma fixed me.
We all buy into the mindsets that we feel help us. It doesn't disprove a culture of overdiagnosis, just because some of the overdiagnosed conditions are real. But yes, I do personally opine that there is rampant overdiagnosis, because I say, in the animal kingdom, or among humans just a century ago, we didn't have this idea that huge numbers of people have some permanent mental problem requiring medication. Now we do. the numbers grow every year. I call that overdiagnosis.

Handle added 43 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

Here's a really good quote I just found from an article about the overdiagnosis of bipolar:

One last confounding factor is the efficacy of some medications for symptoms of personality disorders. Mood stabilizers do appear to reduce mood lability and impulsivity regardless of diagnosis. However, to infer that a specific illness is present simply because a particular medicine helped would be to engage in faulty logic.

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	Good point about bias
	incredible post. so many great points throughout

[chibi curmudgeon]

I agree with pretty much the first half of this. I think direct-to-consumer advertising should be banned, and it is a racket, and doctors are indeed influenced.

However:

Originally Posted by beentheredonethatagain

And of course the pharmacists are all involved in this; they're just filling out the orders. They're like the little machine grinders in this whole system, this whole con of organized medicine.

Somebody’s actually got to fill the bottles and dispense the pills, and that's what the pharmacists do.

No, this is what pharmacy technicians do. Pharmacists see your medical record and know the drugs and correct doctors when they screw up and make sure you're getting something that will help you and to which you're not allergic or already taking a drug that will cause some horrible interaction.

True scientists ask nature what's going on. They try to find out how the universe really works. A true scientist is a humble person, a humble student, and a curious servant of nature. A true scientist runs experiments, or asks questions and tries to get nature to provide some answers.

This is exactly what I'm being taught in pharmacy school.

They think they can run your immune system, or that they can declare war on your body, attacking it with chemotherapy, radiation and other highly toxic therapies.

Hey, if you'd rather be killed by a tumor or your own immune system than take a proven effective drug.....

The rest of this article was just conspiracy theory garbage. But I have to comment on what was probably the most insulting part:

Some people would say that our national economy depends on cancer, and it depends on having all these chronic diseases. Gotta have diabetes; otherwise, what's going to happen to all these people employed in the medical community? What about all these nurses, pharmacists, doctors, researchers, people in the nonprofits, publishers, and drug company executives? What will they do for jobs if all these diseases are cured?

Cure aging? Make people stay 18 indefinitely? I'd love to work for a cosmetics company, actually--it's not much different from pharmacy. There will ALWAYS be something to do, in my lifetime and generations after. I and every health care provider I've ever met would cry tears of joy if our hospital were empty because no one was sick enough to be there. If everyone with diabetes managed with diet, if cancer could be cured with one injection, if vaccines were invented for every single infectious disease known....others would still emerge. Nobody in health care is worried about losing their jobs because of a lack of sick people. That's ridiculous, and to claim that we want people to stay sick is libelous.

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Good points, thanks for your unique perspective.

[welshmick]

Originally Posted by chibi curmudgeon

I agree with pretty much the first half of this. I think direct-to-consumer advertising should be banned, and it is a racket, and doctors are indeed influenced.

However:



No, this is what pharmacy technicians do. Pharmacists see your medical record and know the drugs and correct doctors when they screw up and make sure you're getting something that will help you and to which you're not allergic or already taking a drug that will cause some horrible interaction.



This is exactly what I'm being taught in pharmacy school.



Hey, if you'd rather be killed by a tumor or your own immune system than take a proven effective drug.....

The rest of this article was just conspiracy theory garbage. But I have to comment on what was probably the most insulting part:



Cure aging? Make people stay 18 indefinitely? I'd love to work for a cosmetics company, actually--it's not much different from pharmacy. There will ALWAYS be something to do, in my lifetime and generations after. I and every health care provider I've ever met would cry tears of joy if our hospital were empty because no one was sick enough to be there. If everyone with diabetes managed with diet, if cancer could be cured with one injection, if vaccines were invented for every single infectious disease known....others would still emerge. Nobody in health care is worried about losing their jobs because of a lack of sick people. That's ridiculous, and to claim that we want people to stay sick is libelous.

But you would not have a job, or money, where would you get your antidepressants from

[chibi curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by welshmick

But you would not have a job, or money, where would you get your antidepressants from

Depression would be cured in this hypothetical situation, remember?

And I already pointed out I'd do something else in this utopia. I have interests besides pharmacy.

The point is, this no-sick-people situation is so far off that no pharmaceutical company, no doctors, no one in health care is worried about losing business. It's the 21st century, and human beings are still dying from dehydration. There's no need to drag one's feet in finding cures, and there's no proof of some conspiracy to do so.

[sirmoonie]

Even doing one's best to avoid cynicism and conspiracy theories, there is a lot of truth to that article. The medical profession enjoys its share of money-grubbing incompetent creeps, and there is nothing easier for quick cash than prescribing addictive drugs - doctors in the U.S. are incentivized to string their patients out.

Everyone knows someone with a long term addiction to prescribed painkillers, anti-anxiety drugs, or anti-depressants. Its not healthy, the drugs are no longer beneficial or even fulfilling their purpose, yet are still given to the patient - even those exhibiting serious withdrawal symptoms - upon demand, and continuously without even consideration or re-evaluation. Its a compete racket in many cases.

[Handle]

Originally Posted by sirmoonie

Even doing one's best to avoid cynicism and conspiracy theories, there is a lot of truth to that article. The medical profession enjoys its share of money-grubbing incompetent creeps, and there is nothing easier for quick cash than subscribing addictive drugs - doctors in the U.S. are incentivized to string their patients out.

Everyone knows someone with a long term addiction to prescribed painkillers, anti-anxiety drugs, or anti-depressants. Its not healthy, the drugs are no longer beneficial or even fulfilling their purpose, yet are still given to the patient - even those exhibiting serious withdrawal symptoms - upon demand, and continuously without even consideration or re-evaluation. Its a complete racket in many cases.

Absolutely!

Racket!

In some cases.

not all of them, and I too am happy to admit that pharmacies provide just as many legit treatments as there are legit problems.

But we ALL saw, how they lied about the harmfulness of Vioxx, lied about the addictiveness of oxycontin, these things are proven, in courts, congressional and senate hearing records, and cases overseas.


Stop talking about some utopia where all disease is cured, that's just silly.

Look at the real world, where people get real illness treated by good medicine,

AND

get bad medicine for ilnesses induced by the drug companies.

I'm not here saying that any particular psychological problems are false, I'm not igoring the real suffering of people, but let's just look at addiction.

That is a classic example of artificially induced necessity. It's something where a healthy human does not need a drug, they get exposed to it, and then a "need" for it arises where there was no need before.

Drug companies have a very selective theory of addiciton, that you have to constantly take more and more, on top of regular use, for it to become addictive.

With such a definiton they basically exclude all drug use, because most people get to their maximum dose, and attempt to maintain that. So as long as people stay on something, like oxycontin, and keep taking and keep paying, then there is no addiciton by drug company definitions.

Because if you DID say addiction was simply an induced necessity for constant presence of a drug in your system, without which mere withdrawal would elicit several symptoms that make life hard on the quitter and really increase the feeling of 'need' to get back on, then there would be plenty of antidepressants, anti anxiety and mood stabilising drugs in that category.

Another defense is to say, well, you could say the same of insulin. But no, that is a real physiological need that exists before the drug is first used.

With most psychoactives, there is no physiological need for them until they are used often enough the mind can't do without them.

I know that drug companies have no interest in their products being diverted to illegal activities if it doesn't profit them, but at the same time, they make a helluva lot of legitimated addicts sitting in the living rooms of the west.

Once someone is addicted, they become part of a guaranteed market, enforced by physical withdrawal symptoms if they try to quit.

And don't tell me that these things happen, there are unintended side effects that we the drug companies would put a stop to as soon as we found out...coz I know that's not true.

Vicodin, oxycontin and vioxx, are all infamous cases that the drug companies can no longer suppress or lie about.

They were caught, they got adverse trial results, and what did they do?Suppressed them!

When the real world patients started getting either injured [as in the case of vioxx] or addicted [with opioid painkillers]

they didn't pass that on to the next round of patients even when it had clearly come to light that there were problems.

By suppressing the addictive qualities in the market reputation for a drug, they lead people to prescribe and use those drugs without fully informing them of the addictive potential. Someone who might have been safe with a certain amount of codeine would have been at greater risk dealing with the same amount of oxycontin, but flimsy excuses, such as sustained release properties of the drug, were used to make like it wouldn't be as addictive as the drug in its immediate release form.

That is of course not true.

And even when they start dying, either through OD's or complications from side effects, they still fight tooth and nail to keep unsafe drugs on the market.

So don't tell me there'd be tears of joy to celebrate some great wave of good health, because not only does the medical establishment profit off existing illness and suffering, they actually make people sick and addicted with their products, and keep flogging them off to patients to the very last moment until some court forces them to stop, and then still battle their victims to avoid compensation.

Where did this whole idea come from in psychiatry anyway, that if a person is a bit down, no risk to themselves or others, or if they have mood swings, why is this huge industry built around drugging people for going through the normal ups and downs of life? Of course there will be people who have worse downs, bigger swings, but drugs are so, so easy to get if they are for people who feel depressed. Doctors write them out to patients within a single consultation.

Not to mention the off label uses of drugs, which is rife in psychiatry more than any other field of medicine, a way in which drug companies get their sales boosted by having things like the "antipsychotic" olanzepine peddled to people as "sleep medicine".

Dishonest, untrustworthy, singularly obsessed with profit, and indifferent to the suffering of their victims and worse than indifferent because they actually perpetuated the suffering by concealing adverse findings even when confirmed to them by their own trials!

Handle added 1299 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

http://www.slatergordon.com.au/pages...ons_vioxx.aspx

This above from a law firm in my country that recounts the background of the vioxx case, and how Merck had given feeble explanations to cover up the bad effects that were becoming visible among victims.

The following excerpt

"The nature and scope of of Purdue Pharma's deceit in the marketing of OxyContin became publicly known only in May 2007, when the company and three of its current and former executives pleaded guilty in Federal Court in Virginia to criminal charges that it had misled doctors and patients when it claimed the drug was less likely to be abused than traditional narcotics. Before the guilty plea agreement with the U.S. Attorney, Purdue Pharma had successfully covered up its misdeeds and obtained dismissal of over a thousand OxyContin related lawsuits in the United States."

http://www.oxycontinclassaction.ca/oxycontin/

Comes from a Canadian class action about oxycontin's marketing that misled people into believing it would be less liable to abuse.

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/NewsCentre/Pr...ases/CON002060

The above link, from the official UK pharmaceutical regulator details the withdrawal symptoms experienced by many upon cessation of antidepressant treatment, and recommends that better warnings should be provided about it.

My comment that drug companies argue antidepressants are not addictive for the technical reason that they do not engender a process of escalating use, thereby excluding continued use alone asa standard of addiction, is an argument that has been put out in defense of antidepressants. Although i dispute that definition, I never said that antidepressants do engender increasing use, my argument is that they often lead to a form of use that must be continued, even if at stabilised doses, in order to avoid that withdrawal syndromes that even UK government drug regulators acknowledge is a real problem.

Finally, i would like to point out that this is not a peer reviewed journal, and it's unfair to expect a level of stringent substantiation for one person's claims that is not demanded of another.

This is a user forum, and I believe I'm entitled to express my opinion in this thread about legalised structures that perpetuate drug use, particularly drugs that were not physiologically necessary before use, especially when insufficient warning is provided that mental or pain easing effects might be set back by other problems inherent in the use of those drugs.

I don't think acting as if i must provide these excerpts or else I will be dismissed as a "conspiracy nut" especially when I never discussed any conspiracy type idea in the previous post, and gave credit to the benefits of using drugs where necessary.

And if you say "back up your claims" maybe next time you can let me do that before you deduct points even when I do back up my claims, because I doubt you'll be giving positive rep points now that I have backed them up.

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Back up your claims or be dismissed as a conspiracy nut.