The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--the relationship between pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics and CYP2D6 metaboliser status (2004) - Drugs Forum
Drugs-Forum  
News Groups Blog Forum Chat Video Audio Images Documents Wiki Home
Go Back   Drugs Forum > VARIOUS DRUGS > Opium, Opiates & Opioids
Register Tags Mark Forums Read

Notices

Opium, Opiates & Opioids Opium, codeine, hydrocodone and other opiates & opioids.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-02-2008, 16:33
Jatelka's Avatar
Jatelka Jatelka is offline
Jatelka is back in a funk: The weekend aint so great!
Psychedelic Shepherdess
Moderator
 
Join Date: 16-10-2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 33
Posts: 5,025
Jatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond reputeJatelka is a true resource and beyond repute
Points: 18,048, Level: 19 Points: 18,048, Level: 19 Points: 18,048, Level: 19
Activity: 46% Activity: 46% Activity: 46%
The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--the relationship between pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics and CYP2D6 metaboliser status (2004)

A new entry has been added to Drugs Archive

Description:
Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 2005 Jun;61(4):257-66

Fliegert F, Kurth B, Göhler K.

OBJECTIVES: The main objective of the present study was to provide information on whether static and dynamic pupillometry can be used for pharmacodynamic profiling, particularly when investigating opioid-like drugs, such as tramadol.

METHODS: Healthy subjects (n = 26) participated in this randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover Phase 1 study. Of these, 20 extensive metabolisers (EMs) with respect to polymorphic isoenzyme cytochrome P450 2D6 (CYP2D6) received up to 150 mg of tramadol-HCl and placebo. The 6 poor metabolisers (PMs) with respect to CYP2D6 received 100 mg tramadol-HCl and placebo. RESULTS: In EMs, serum concentrations of the enantiomers of tramadol and of O-demethylated metabolite (M1) increased with increasing doses. Comparing the 100-mg dose between EMs and PMs, the latter exhibited higher serum concentrations of both enantiomers of tramadol. Serum concentrations of (+)-M1 remained below the lower limit of quantification, and that of (-)-M1 were lower than those in EMs. In EMs, doses from 100 mg tramadol-HCl on induced a significant (P<0.05) miosis as compared with placebo. The maximum mean differences from placebo after dosing with 50, 100 and 150 mg tramadol-HCL were -0.5, -0.8 and -1.1 mm, respectively, indicating a dose-dependent character of the changes. Dynamic pupillometry revealed significant (P<0.05) effects for the amplitude, latency and duration of reaction. The amplitude and velocity of constriction were decreased only at the highest dose; whereas, the changes of the amplitude reached statistical significance (P<0.05). Both the latency and reaction duration behaved in a dose-dependent manner. For the latency, significant changes compared with placebo (P<0.05) were found at the 150-mg dose level, while the reaction duration was already significantly (P<0.05) decreased from the 100-mg dose on. The velocity of redilatation did not respond at all. In PMs, no effect on the initial pupil diameter was found. Although the statistical analysis failed to demonstrate any significant change from placebo for the dynamic pupillometry, the effect-time profiles of EMs and PMs were comparable. For both metaboliser groups, a decrease of amplitude, velocity of constriction and reaction duration as well as an increase of latency was observed. In principle, the direction and magnitude of changes were comparable between EMs and PMs. Most important was the finding that the time course of effects was completely different between both groups of metabolisers. In EMs, effects slowly reached a maximum between 4 h and 10 h after dosing and diminished until 24 h; whereas, in PMs, both maximum effects and the return to baseline occurred much earlier, at approximately 3 h and 8 h, respectively.

CONCLUSIONS: The EMs and PMs of CYP2D6 treated with tramadol behaved differently in static and dynamic pupillometry. The reason for this could largely be explained with the aid of the metaboliser status and the pharmacokinetic properties of tramadol. In EMs, the pupillometric response was mainly driven by the (+)-M1, which comprises the mu action component of tramadol; whereas, in PMs, the non-mu component appears to play an important role. Thus, pupillometry was found to be useful in pharmacodynamic profiling and provides a good correlation with the pharmacokinetics

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--the relationship between pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics and CYP2D6 metaboliser status (2004)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

Reputation Comments on this post:
  
  Proved useful, Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20-02-2008, 00:53
delphinen's Avatar
delphinen delphinen is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 28-01-2007
Location: South America
Posts: 135
delphinen can only hope to improve
Points: 302, Level: 2 Points: 302, Level: 2 Points: 302, Level: 2
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

Hope this clears why some people get really high on Tramadol after some hours and some people dont get high at all.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20-02-2008, 03:16
radiometer's Avatar
radiometer is almost a daddy
bananadine addict
 
Join Date: 13-04-2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3,587
Blog Entries: 1
radiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 14,656, Level: 17 Points: 14,656, Level: 17 Points: 14,656, Level: 17
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

Why is this so key with Tramadol? Is Tramadol a pro-drug?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20-02-2008, 03:44
Paracelsus's Avatar
Dissociatives
Platinum Member & Advisor
 
Join Date: 31-08-2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,944
Paracelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline MedlineParacelsus must mainline Medline
Points: 10,845, Level: 15 Points: 10,845, Level: 15 Points: 10,845, Level: 15
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

Yes, it is. This file contains a lot of information on its pharmacology.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20-02-2008, 22:41
silentghost silentghost is offline
Account Awaiting Email Confirmation.
 
Join Date: 06-12-2007
Location: CVS pharmacy lol
Age: 30
Posts: 88
Blog Entries: 9
silentghost is a decent SWIMmer.
Points: 538, Level: 3 Points: 538, Level: 3 Points: 538, Level: 3
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

Is there any sure way to determine if one is EM or PM? Besides going to your doctor for a test.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20-02-2008, 23:01
radiometer's Avatar
radiometer is almost a daddy
bananadine addict
 
Join Date: 13-04-2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3,587
Blog Entries: 1
radiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forumradiometer is living in mutualistic symbiosis with drugs-forum
Points: 14,656, Level: 17 Points: 14,656, Level: 17 Points: 14,656, Level: 17
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

I'm pretty sure there are home tests one can purchase, presumably one takes a sample and sends it in to a lab.

Reputation Comments on this post:
  
  ty for quick answer
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21-02-2008, 01:19
delphinen's Avatar
delphinen delphinen is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 28-01-2007
Location: South America
Posts: 135
delphinen can only hope to improve
Points: 302, Level: 2 Points: 302, Level: 2 Points: 302, Level: 2
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

the best prove is try if you get high after 3 hours of 400mg of Tramadol, when the O-Desmethyl should be binding to your MU receptors thus giving you pleasure.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 21-02-2008, 01:50
silentghost silentghost is offline
Account Awaiting Email Confirmation.
 
Join Date: 06-12-2007
Location: CVS pharmacy lol
Age: 30
Posts: 88
Blog Entries: 9
silentghost is a decent SWIMmer.
Points: 538, Level: 3 Points: 538, Level: 3 Points: 538, Level: 3
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

Good point. The time of effects would hint at my enzyme's metabolism. Will try tonight.

Though SWIM can't handle 400mg all at once without nausea.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 21-02-2008, 05:22
Bajeda's Avatar
Bajeda Bajeda is nu online
Bajeda is winking at you.
Ethnobotanical Cannibal
Moderator
 
Join Date: 13-07-2006
Location: Funky Town
Posts: 4,838
Bajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond reputeBajeda is a true resource and beyond repute
Points: 15,848, Level: 18 Points: 15,848, Level: 18 Points: 15,848, Level: 18
Activity: 24% Activity: 24% Activity: 24%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

Quote:
Originally Posted by delphinen View Post
the best prove is try if you get high after 3 hours of 400mg of Tramadol, when the O-Desmethyl should be binding to your MU receptors thus giving you pleasure.
But you could be a rapid metaboliser also, plus I'm sure there is substantial variation in the rate of metabolism within the different classifications as well. Any exact figures like that are simply a mean value.

I think DXM would be a better litmus test, as poor metabolisers tend to experience the worst of the side effects. If DXM simply doesn't agree with your body at recreational doses, perhaps your are a poor metaboliser. I don't think any test you could do at home could conclusively identify you as one or the other.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21-02-2008, 09:12
silentghost silentghost is offline
Account Awaiting Email Confirmation.
 
Join Date: 06-12-2007
Location: CVS pharmacy lol
Age: 30
Posts: 88
Blog Entries: 9
silentghost is a decent SWIMmer.
Points: 538, Level: 3 Points: 538, Level: 3 Points: 538, Level: 3
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

SWIM has very pleasant DXM experiences... Also his tramadol seems to kick in late and last a very long time, so he thinks he may be a decent metabolizer.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 21-02-2008, 20:07
delphinen's Avatar
delphinen delphinen is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: 28-01-2007
Location: South America
Posts: 135
delphinen can only hope to improve
Points: 302, Level: 2 Points: 302, Level: 2 Points: 302, Level: 2
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: The effects of tramadol on static and dynamic pupillometry in healthy subjects--t

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajeda View Post
But you could be a rapid metaboliser also, plus I'm sure there is substantial variation in the rate of metabolism within the different classifications as well. Any exact figures like that are simply a mean value.

I think DXM would be a better litmus test, as poor metabolisers tend to experience the worst of the side effects. If DXM simply doesn't agree with your body at recreational doses, perhaps your are a poor metaboliser. I don't think any test you could do at home could conclusively identify you as one or the other.
True. SWIM gets very high on low doses of DXM too. SWIM gest to a second plateau with 300mg veery fast.

Last edited by delphinen; 21-02-2008 at 20:50.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Sitelinks: Site Functions:

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:46.


Copyright: Substance Information Network 2003 - 2009, All rights reserved