Should swim just approach his doc

[BobTheGreat]

Swim recently got his first adderall connection. He is sure he has ADD but its had to find a place to test because of his insurance. His doc knows swim knows a fair bit about drugs and trusts him(or at least from what swim has read into the situation). Hell he's even corrected the doc on one or two occassions.

His doc is leary about giving out schedule 2 drugs because 4 docs around the area lost their licenses for overprescribing. Swim found tremendous help taking adderall. Should he just approach the doc and say he got a couple from a friend? Or should he even ask at all?

[Matt The Funk]

If it really helps and SWIY won't abuse it i'd go for it.

[coldkate]

SWIM kinda was in the same situation. she had tried adderall multiple times through a friend. she already knew she had ADD but she didn't realize how adderall would affect her. she didn't mention this to the doc because it's breaking a federal law for her friend to give her even 1 adderall.

she went to a clinic because she didn't have health insurance, and her doctor didn't actually 'test' her. she just explained all of her symptoms, and she's a psych major so that helps. and he diagnosed her with ADD and gave her a script of adderall that day. she didn't specifically ask for adderall. this was a completely new doctor though that she had never met so she had to explain her entire life to him which wasn't fun.

SWIM is wondering if you're talking about a psychiatrist or a family doctor... and SWIM would suggest not to mention that SWIY's friend gave him adderall to try, since it's against the federal law.

[coldkate]

Originally Posted by coldkate

you're

SWIY're, SWIY's..?. SWIM's bad, lol

after reading this again for no particular reason, SWIM definitely thinks that SWIY shouldn NOT approach this specific doctor about taking adderall. even if he's 'close' with his doctor, it's just not safe to tell him he took someone else's prescription, especially adderall. it sounds like SWIY's talking about his family doctor?... SWIM did mention once or twice to her family doctor that she knows she has ADD, and she thinks that she just ended up getting a prescription with a psychiatrist's name on it.

GP's are not meant to diagnose illnesses treated by these drugs. but they can prescribe them, as SWIM learned when she didn't feel like paying the copay to see her psych and asked her GP if he could just write out the prescription. her GP just trusted her and wrote out the script for adderall even though he had no proof she was ever even prescribed the drug (so she thought her GP trusted her, etc). but SWIM learned the hard way when it comes to asking for specific meds from her GP. the last time she specifically asked for a med (percocet) her GP wrote on the front of her chart in huge writing 'NO PERCOCET', haha. and she probably will never be prescribed it again. tell SWIY don't do it!!

[BobTheGreat]

He is a GP. Actually he prescribed swim concerta before but it didnt help. They dropped the subject because swim was going to see a psych and he felt more comfortable letting the psych write the script. However, insurance is a bitch so swim is still searching and pretty discouraged. Swim isnt worried about his friend getting in trouble because he wont use a name plus patient-doctor confidentiality. He has given swim a few scripts that swim could tell he wasnt totally comfortable giving out but did so without much hesitation.

A possible new problem has come about though. Swim suffers from moderate insomnia and went to no sleep for the couple of days he tried it out. This is probably due to the time of ingestion and half life. Swim is up early today so he will see take his last xr today and see what happens. He still has some sr too so the next few days will tell whether it's a worthwhile drug. Do any swimmers have insomnia and take adderall? Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Swim has asked for painkillers to help him sleep when the pain keeps him awake. He asked for a few hydro or oxycodone. He left with a script for 100 hydrocodone pills.

Also swiCK as swiy found out NEVER ask for a specific opioiod esspecially oxycodone. Anyone that does that is automatically assumed an addict. swiy might as well asked her doc where she could score some heroin. In swim's case he had been prescribed hydrocodone before but was hoping for the oxycodone because it works better for him. No reason to push the issue though since hydrocodone works fine.

If swiy really has chronic pain, there is a good thread by richard smoker in the opioiod subforum
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17040

[coldkate]

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

Also swiCK as swiy found out NEVER ask for a specific opioiod esspecially oxycodone. Anyone that does that is automatically assumed an addict. swiy might as well asked her doc where she could score some heroin.

SWIM had been prescribed oxycodone by another doctor multiple times at the same office. she told this doctor and he looked at her chart and realized she would BECOME an addict, SWIM thinks. so instead he wrote out a script for tramadol which she then threw away...

by the way... SWIBTG completely contradicted himself... SWIBTG mentioned how he specifically asked for "a few" oxycodone or hydrocodone, and then he walked away with 100 pills. and then SWIY said never to ask for a specific medication. ok then...

[staples]

Originally Posted by coldkate

she didn't mention this to the doc because it's breaking a federal law for her friend to give her even 1 adderall
...
SWIM would suggest not to mention that SWIY's friend gave him adderall to try, since it's against the federal law.

Originally Posted by coldkate

SWIM definitely thinks that SWIY shouldn NOT approach this specific doctor about taking adderall. even if he's 'close' with his doctor, it's just not safe to tell him he took someone else's prescription, especially adderall.

It is extremely dangerous, reckless, irresponsible, and just generally stupid not to make SWIY's doctor aware of any other drugs SWIY is taking--legal or not, especially something as powerful as adderall. I would think it should go without saying the degree of dangerous drug-drug interactions that could occur, but apparently this isn't all that obvious...

I've heard of doctors flat out asking if patients do cocaine before prescribing adderall. If a patient admits to a cocaine habit, it's not as if the doctor would say "hah, got you!" and notify the authorities. Not at all, he wants to help and a cocaine habit, depending on several different things (from the nature of that habit itself to how the patient was affected by cocaine--it's not uncommon for those with ADHD to self-medicate with cocaine) may suggest a plethora of different things to the doctor so that he can best treat the patient.

My sister tried her friend's adderall, liked it, told her doctor, got tested, got adderall legitimately.

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

A possible new problem has come about though. Swim suffers from moderate insomnia and went to no sleep for the couple of days he tried it out. This is probably due to the time of ingestion and half life. Swim is up early today so he will see take his last xr today and see what happens. He still has some sr too so the next few days will tell whether it's a worthwhile drug. Do any swimmers have insomnia and take adderall? Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

If you are implying that SWIY is taking adderall not as prescribed (either time it was taken, how much, or both) then I'd almost expect insomnia. Since you say this is a "new" problem for SWIY, it certainly sounds like drug-induced insomnia rather than a legitamate medical condition. If insomnia were a legitamate condition for SWIY, it would probably be more disabling and thus more pressing an issue than ADHD, so it should've been treated first.

I've been prescribed to ambien for insomnia for a couple years, during which I was prescribed to adderall for a while. Since stimulants are used to treat ADHD, if one starts to suffer from insomnia as opposed to having a consistent history of it, I can't see how that wouldn't be considered a side effect.

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

Swim has asked for painkillers to help him sleep when the pain keeps him awake.

I don't think you mentioned SWIY's chronic pain? I thought legitimately diagnosed chronic pain is normally treated with opiates consistently, which leads me to believe it hasn't been diagnosed for SWIY, and the fact that he asked for painkillers for an undiagnosed condition certainly would suggest drug-seeking and intent to abuse...

Also, you said SWIY's GP is iffy about prescribing schedule 2 substances, but then report that he prescribed concerta to SWIY. Sounds like something tells him he shouldn't give SWIY adderall, the schedule 2 thing might just be a polite way of putting it.

[coldkate]

Originally Posted by staples

It is extremely dangerous, reckless, irresponsible, and just generally stupid not to make SWIY's doctor aware of any other drugs SWIY is taking--legal or not, especially something as powerful as adderall. I would think it should go without saying the degree of dangerous drug-drug interactions that could occur, but apparently this isn't all that obvious...

I've heard of doctors flat out asking if patients do cocaine before prescribing adderall. If a patient admits to a cocaine habit, it's not as if the doctor would say "hah, got you!" and notify the authorities. Not at all, he wants to help and a cocaine habit, depending on several different things (from the nature of that habit itself to how the patient was affected by cocaine--it's not uncommon for those with ADHD to self-medicate with cocaine) may suggest a plethora of different things to the doctor so that he can best treat the patient.

i was under the impression that SWIBTG had only taken adderall once or something. either way, my point was that i don't think it'd by the best idea for someone to mention to their doctor that they had taken someone else's schedule II controlled substance and then immediately ask for it. no, i don't think that they doctor will be like, 'ha! i caught you', that's kind of ridiculous. maybe a patient will admit to the doctor that they are doing cocaine, but they are not asking the doctor for cocaine!... i just would think someone's doctor would be less likely to prescribe a controlled substance if someone said they had tried someone else's.

but i do agree with you about the concerta thing.

[BobTheGreat]

where to start...

Also, you said SWIY's GP is iffy about prescribing schedule 2 substances, but then report that he prescribed concerta to SWIY. Sounds like something tells him he shouldn't give SWIY adderall, the schedule 2 thing might just be a polite way of putting it.

Did you read the part about 4 docs lossing their licenses? The gov has been cracking down and I would be a bit paranoid too. It is his job at stake.

swim suffers from scoliosis due to one leg being longer than the other. His back looks somthing like this:

He was near needing surgery. He first was given hydrocodone after he was x-rayed. He realized that opiate withdraw wasnt worth it since muscle relaxants take away most of the pain. Sometimes the pain gets unbearable at night(a new mattress would probably help) so he asked for a small script of painkillers since otc ones dont do the trick. He has been going to his doc for a year or two so the doc wrote the script for 100 and told swim to make it last which it has. In general though swim would never ask for a specific painkiller from a doc he was unfamiliar with.

As for the concerta, the doc and swim discussed it after swim overheard a conversation in another patient's room(the walls are paper thin). He prescribed it however it didnt work. Swim and doc agreed to leave it to a psych to evaluate since he was going anyway. This was when he first started going so the doc probably was suspicious. He hasnt never asked for any other ADD meds nor brought up the subject since that visit.

Swim took the preliminary test for ADD which all signs pointed to yes but the test is 400 bucks and insurance wont cover at that clinic. Since the adderall swim read a book in 2 days which usually would have taken at least a month. Even writing this post his mind keeps wandering and it's been about an hour granted he's been talking to his roommate on and off.

The insomnia is chronic. Swim was using pot and benadryl(US) but it finally got bad enough to go to the doc. He prescribed temazepam but it hasnt worked at the written dose(30mg), hopefully due to the adderall. Swim played around a bit with dosing and found it took 90mg(30 of which was insuflated; only done after 2 nights of 60mg did nothing except relax him).

Also swim has totally lost his appitite. Will this go away with time or is adderall a pipe dream?

Swim's less than legally obtained adderall was a few 30mg xr and some 10mg sr. He found 1 of each was about the right dose. He took them mid to late afternoon so it probably is the reason swim cant sleep even with the hypnotic benzo.

SWIM had been prescribed oxycodone by another doctor multiple times at the same office. she told this doctor and he looked at her chart and realized she would BECOME an addict, SWIM thinks. so instead he wrote out a script for tramadol which she then threw away...

Swiy never said this. Just like swim's incomplete post, we always assume the worst case senerio. Also swim realized he contradicted himself but his internet went down by the time it dawned on him so he couldnt edit it.

[staples]

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

Did you read the part about 4 docs lossing their licenses? The gov has been cracking down and I would be a bit paranoid too. It is his job at stake.

Concerta/Ritallin (Methylphenidate) is a schedule II substance. It's a schedule III substance in Canada, but I gather from the health insurance issues that this is irrelevant.

I'm truly sorry to hear about SWIY's pain. I'm afraid I don't know enough about chronic pain or this area of medicine to help, so hopefully someone else here can be more valuable in that department.

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

Since the adderall swim read a book in 2 days which usually would have taken at least a month. Even writing this post his mind keeps wandering and it's been about an hour granted he's been talking to his roommate on and off.

Sorry to keep playing devil's advocate--indeed, legitimate ADHD should be treated! But this doesn't necessarily indicate ADHD. Before my doctor started treating me with a stimulant she wanted me to know that almost ANYONE would concentrate better on it. Your comment about quickly reading the book reminds me of the movie Thumbsucker, where he is prescribed ritalin and flies through a book (really good scene). Sure, some like to read that much but not everyone can or would maintain interest enough to read that quickly. Adderall can cause a bit of a "wow, I'm so much better on this, I must have ADD" effect, which lends itself to an adverse placebo effect when one can't have Aderal, so SWIY should be weary.

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

The insomnia is chronic. Swim was using pot and benadryl(US) but it finally got bad enough to go to the doc.

But, it has gotten worse as SWIY has self-treated it? Either way, SWIY obviously needs sleep, but SWIY said you mostly can't sleep due to the pain. I didn't understand about the chronic pain in my last post, but if that's the case, then I would say SWIY should press that issue. It's unhealthy and can cause a lot of problems (including aggravate ADD/ADHD) to think of insomnia as a separate issue from the chronic pain and treat it as such if that's not the case. That's not to say that I, myself, haven't been on upwards of 4 or 5 different medications at a time, but some of that was situational, some of it's still changing, and some people do indeed have several issues. But it sounds like SIWY wants benzos to help SWIY sleep through pain...

Now this is somewhat anecdotal and prone to memory errors so take it with a grain of salt, but I have seen several documentaries about people who suffer from a diverse array of issues. Early on in treatment, doctors only knew how treat the individual symptoms and the patients would be on several medications--which helped, but wasn't perfect and caused smaller (but more manageable) problems of their own. Such documentaries use this type of story to lead up to a medical advance which pinpoints a certain problem that could cause most or all of the symptoms. After this happens and treatment is changed accordingly, as you might expect such patients are treated with a much more sane approach and their issues either subside or become minimal in their normal lives.

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

He prescribed temazepam but it hasnt worked at the written dose(30mg), hopefully due to the adderall.

"hopefully"?!? or was that supposed to be "probably"?

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

Also swim has totally lost his appitite. Will this go away with time or is adderall a pipe dream?

Adderall would certainly not help (though some people don't notice much change in appetite, but if SWIY did it would almost definitely be a decrease), but such side effects should dissipate with normal treatment.

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

Swim's less than legally obtained adderall was a few 30mg xr and some 10mg sr. He found 1 of each was about the right dose. He took them mid to late afternoon so it probably is the reason swim cant sleep even with the hypnotic benzo.

Perhaps, but please also understand how powerful the placebo effect is. If SWIY starts thinking of himself as an insomniac--even if he know it's due to chronic pain--and convinces himself that he needs benzos or z-drugs or other alternative sleep aids in order to sleep, then this will become true. That being said, it's obviously important that SWIY sleep, but he is somewhat to blame if he's causing sleep trouble with amphetamines...

As for adderall, it's very dangerous to self-diagnose! Doctors, themselves, aren't legally allowed to prescribe themselves or their family to anything much more than antibiotics (ok, I've seen some ignore this rule, but it's there--and for good reasons).

Anyway, this is some more stuff for SWIY's consideration. I wish him all the best luck with treatment and hope he finds the root of his issues--whether or not it's ADHD.

[coldkate]

Originally Posted by BobTheGreat

Swim took the preliminary test for ADD which all signs pointed to yes but the test is 400 bucks and insurance wont cover at that clinic.

Also swim has totally lost his appitite. Will this go away with time or is adderall a pipe dream?

SWIM has been taking adderall as prescribed (30mg XR daily) or less than prescribed for a few years now. she has not noticed the appetite loss or the insomnia caused by the adderall dissipate over time. but everyone's different. SWIM just thought she should put it out there that it doesn't always dissipate for everyone over time.

as for going to the clinic, SWIM goes there because she doesn't have insurance. she pays $10.

it sounds like SWIY legitimately has ADD. i hope SWIY figures out the best way to go about getting treatment.

[Beachhead]

Originally Posted by staples

I've heard of doctors flat out asking if patients do cocaine before prescribing adderall. My sister tried her friend's adderall, liked it, told her doctor, got tested, got adderall legitimately.

Your sister got tested? By who, for what and why?

Did her doctor test her for illegal drugs before the doctor would prescribe Adderall for her?

[RaverHippie]

Originally Posted by Beachhead

Your sister got tested? By who, for what and why?

Did her doctor test her for illegal drugs before the doctor would prescribe Adderall for her?

I'm pretty sure the testing would be for ADD/ADHD since those are the ailments that are tested for and treated with adderall. typically psychiatrists will run these tests.

[staples]

Originally Posted by RaverHippie

I'm pretty sure the testing would be for ADD/ADHD since those are the ailments that are tested for and treated with adderall. typically psychiatrists will run these tests.

Correct.

[OhCasey]

Swim is on Hydrocodones for Pain but thats with Swims Pain Management Doc. Swim went to his gp and got Adderall last week. He took an internet test that diagnosed him as inattentive add, went to his doc said he got diagnosed as a kid by a psych (lie) but never took meds cause he didnt want to but tried controlling it with diet and excercise but wants to try meds (didnt mention anything specific). Doc said ok walked in gave him a script for low dose adderall XR said come back soon tell me how its working. Ive been with Docs for a long time and heres some tips. Dont mention specific Drugs. Mention your willingness to try non medicine treatments. Act naive about drugs but mention you're gonna look up the ones hes writing a script for on the internet when you get home to seem actually interested in the problem not the drug. And DO your homework on the symptoms. Swim honestly does have inattentive ADD but Swim did ham it up a lil. He mentioned how Hard it is too concentrate how he reads the same page 3 times to comprehend (both true), and his doc ate it up. Every doctor office has atleast 1 doc who will specialize in ADD treatment so just be willing to take a test or tell them youve already been diagnosed, if they check Swims chart theyll see he did see a pysch in jr high and if it doesnt mention ADD he'll just act surprised. But Swim doubts it will come to that since hes bullsh*ted them before.

[coldkate]

Originally Posted by OhCasey

Every doctor office has atleast 1 doc who will specialize in ADD treatment

that would be so convenientttttttttt if it were true

[OhCasey]

Originally Posted by coldkate

that would be so convenientttttttttt if it were true

What i meant to say is every primary care office Swims been to has a Doc that deals with ADD, he will do other things too, but he will know enough about ADD to treat it. Especially if theres a peditricion in the office.

[BobTheGreat]

Originally Posted by OhCasey

What i meant to say is every primary care office Swims been to has a Doc that deals with ADD, he will do other things too, but he will know enough about ADD to treat it. Especially if theres a peditricion in the office.

This is true but most doctors get their info from the drug manufacturers so they tend to be distorted. They present the facts as they see fit. Just look at the pushing of antidepressants. Doctors make mistakes too so urban myths end up in their heads just like ours. GPs have the hard job of knowing about every single illness which is why it is better to go to someone who specializes in the area one needs help in. For instance swim's doc is also a D.O. so he can adjust swim's back during visits and understands how to treat the problem better than a regular GP would.

A good example about myths: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46830. Sorry Staples. Im not trying to pick on you. It's just dumb luck.

[RaverHippie]

I'm in a similar situation as well but I've heard that a common symptom of ADD/ADHD is one attempting to self-medicate, so alerting the doctor ahead of time that one has swum in the ocean of adderall before wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing? One could also claim if the effects were beneficial or not.

I'm curious if this would be a beneficial route to go?