Dating as a couple

[radiometer]

Advice sought for dating as a couple.

Is there a middle ground between polymatchmaker and craigslist? We are a longterm married couple seeking to find another compatible single (either sex) or (better yet) couple, and have found that there seems to be a gap between those seeking a straight couple to fuck "this friday night" and those seeking people with whom to form a Heinleinesque utopia. Nothing against either of those choices, but it's not what we're looking for. We have had a few casual encounters but seek a person or couple with whom we can share both sex and close friendship.

Are there any couples here who have had luck finding suitable mates on the internet? We both work in professions in which it is best we be discrete about our sex lives. Should we just run our own ad on, for instance, craigslist? Has anyone in a couple reading done so in the past, and if so to what response?

Sorry if this is the wrong forum - this board lacks a specific "sex and relationships" forum.

[Nature Boy]

Online relationships are all the rage these days. More and more people meet others that way. I guess going through something like MySpace would be the most obvious choice, seeing as it's so popular, but Craig's List could work. SWIM has never been too into the whole "meeting people on the internet and becoming friends with them" thing. To him, the internet is good for getting to know distant friends/acquaintants a little better though, MSN Messenger and all that.

The concept of finding a virtual stranger to engage with a couple is alien to SWIM. It just seems to make more sense to find people the conventional way i.e. get to know them, see if their into it, one thing slowly leads to another etc.

[Heretic.Ape.]

Do a search for polyamory + (your area) and you will likely find local groups, some of which are very discrete. This works better if you are in a metropolitan area as usually there are several such groups around.
I know www.polyamory.org/ has a state by state list but I'm not sure how recent it is. Good luck

[radiometer]

We have considered polyamory support groups over the years, but we are not really "joiners." We've also found it rather difficult to find people who match us well on poly-oriented personals sites. Anyway, I wasn't expecting any magic answers here, I just thought perhaps we might have some poly members here in this community who might have tips for couples trying to meet like minded others.

[Heretic.Ape.]

Let me know if you discover any peals of wisdom on the matter, poly's one of those things that just seems to fall together randomly when it works well.

[Metomni]

SWIM is interested in any answers or priceless information you find while searching. He and his girlfriend aren't interested right now, but most likely will be in the future.

Good luck, maybe SWIY could try asking people he already knows? That's how SWIM would first try going about it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

this is in appreciation of your help with the rehab index :)

[snapper]

SWIM is curious. Maybe SWIM has too many hangups, but how can something like this not be disruptive in some way to a committed relationship ? SWIM understands that different people have different mindsets, but it seems that inevitably someone would develop some resentment along the way.
SWIM remembers reading most of Heinlein's books as a teenager, and at that time the whole utopia thing sounded great, but SWIM was uncommited and happily would become sexually involved with anyone attractive of the opposite sex. SWIM does not want to come across as critical - SWIM has no problem with people doing what makes them happy. SWIM just doesn't get how someone can maintain a relationship when swinging or swapping couples. Does it take time and practice to not become jealous or resentful, or is it a non-issue for SWIY?

[~lostgurl~]

I've had a lot of luck on dating sites, I've met some great friends and a few potentials. Although I am only looking for single men I get propositioned regularly by couples, women and married men wanting anything from sex to friendship. The "swingers" seem to do well for themselves as there are always people looking for the same thing you are. I'm not sure how much luck they have finding a regular, it seems there are many more males interested in this than females, though most couples seem to be looking only for females (wife bi-curious, hubby wants to watch and maybe join in type thing) most seem to be looking for friendships with benefits!

Give it a go, at the very least you may make some new friends.

And before Trptamene and Heretic Ape jump in and say I am trying to convert the masses to internet dating lol, radiometer broached the subject, not I!

[Metomni]

"SWIM is curious. Maybe SWIM has too many hangups, but how can something like this not be disruptive in some way to a committed relationship ? SWIM understands that different people have different mindsets, but it seems that inevitably someone would develop some resentment along the way.
SWIM remembers reading most of Heinlein's books as a teenager, and at that time the whole utopia thing sounded great, but SWIM was uncommited and happily would become sexually involved with anyone attractive of the opposite sex. SWIM does not want to come across as critical - SWIM has no problem with people doing what makes them happy. SWIM just doesn't get how someone can maintain a relationship when swinging or swapping couples. Does it take time and practice to not become jealous or resentful, or is it a non-issue for SWIY?"

In SWIM's mind a relationship is made up of many things. You have the sex, you have the companionship, trust, lust, love, happiness, you have dispute, you have tension, desire, and just everything imaginable. SWIM views sex as very sacred, but not something that should be only during marriage or only with "the right one". He feels as though sex is a lot like drugs in a lot of ways, when it feels right, then just let it be right.

SWIM and his partner are very sexually active and though new things are thought up very often, it's hard to keep a longterm relationship sexually healthy because after a while it feels like it's just the same thing. It's because of this (along with his pet's bi-curiosity) that a threesome has been discussed.

It's not really a matter of jealousy or anything because the other person involved, whoever they are, is simply there for sexual gratification. The relationship is not stressed because both involved know each other's feelings. That sexual desire is so much different than the emotions that hold a solid relationship together.

Sex is important, but in SWIM's mind sex is not what makes a good relationship. A good relationship involves good sex among other things and SWIM is interested in experiencing just about anything with his pet and that involves experimenting with many different sexual fantasies/situations.

[~lostgurl~]

Trust is more important than monogamy

~ Savage Garden

[radiometer]

Originally Posted by snapper

Maybe SWIM has too many hangups, but how can something like this not be disruptive in some way to a committed relationship ? SWIM understands that different people have different mindsets, but it seems that inevitably someone would develop some resentment along the way.

It does indeed take lots of work. And there is resentment along the way. One needs to be able to relate to others with 100% honesty, feel entirely secure in their primary relationship (if that is the model they choose to follow), know what they want in relationships, and at the very least work through some socialized patterns of jealousy. To talk about someone other than myself, SCWIU (some couple who isn't us) were catalyzed by MDMA to a great extent - under its influence, they worked on their relationship over several years, discovered somewhat out of the blue that they were interested in pursuing secondary relationships and finally, worked through the resultant difficulties. Their future, of course, is not guaranteed to be stress-free, and no doubt they will face some roadblocks. But they are in a pretty good place for the time being. And we were lucky enough to absorb their knowledge via cosmic osmosis.

I may post more about my feelings and experiences on this topic if it seems to be of interest.

Originally Posted by Metomni

It's not really a matter of jealousy or anything because the other person involved, whoever they are, is simply there for sexual gratification. The relationship is not stressed because both involved know each other's feelings. That sexual desire is so much different than the emotions that hold a solid relationship together.

Well, that seems to address swinging fairly well, but for those of us who identify as polyamorous, the goal is not simply "sexual gratification," but meaningful, ethical relationships.

Probably the best resource I've ever seen addressing this topic is the book The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy.

[Metomni]

When using the term sexual gratification, I meant absolutely nothing mean or demeaning to anyone. If I suggested that that means those relationships are not ethical or meaningful, I apologize. I'm of the same mindset, I suppose I'm just not always the most eloquent in my word useage.

Reputation Comments on this post:

For all your work with the addiction treatment center index

[snapper]

Neither is demeaning - everyone gets something different out of a relationship, and sex is as valid a reason as any. However, SWIM was more interested in how SWIRadiometer and friends deals with the emotional and social end of it. Thanks for the responses - because most people keep their personal lives so close to their chests it is interesting to hear about how other people live them. SWIM's guessing whatever the goal, introducing another into a relationship is probably very difficult.
And as an aside, sex with the same person long term doesn't have to get boring. In a different way than the initial novelty and physical attraction (though these do count), sex becomes more gratifying in deeper, emotional ways.

[Heretic.Ape.]

For monkey he simply has never understood monogamy or the notion that love for one person could detract from love for another, as though there were limits to love. He has always seen possessiveness and jealousy as being symptoms of issues of insecurity about having emotional needs met. But that is just this monkey. He thought he was the only one in the world like this until he read Stranger in a Strange Land; then he knew one other strange fellow out there thought the same way lol. Just a couple years ago he learned there was actually a word for it and subculture of polyamory.
It can be very difficult as people work through such issues as feeling their place of importance is threatened, etc but with a wonderful group of people it can be worked through and well worth it in this monkeys opinion.

[radiometer]

Originally Posted by snapper

And as an aside, sex with the same person long term doesn't have to get boring.

That is certainly not the issue for us, we are both as hot for each other as we were 16 years ago when we met, if not more so!

[snapper]

SWIM is not jealous or possessive, but feels that another person would interfere with a stable relationship. SWIM thinks people perceive things in different ways, and whatever works for a SWIM works. Most likely some are wired differently than others. SWIM remembers Stranger in a Strange Land having a huge impact on SWIM's thinking and found the 'polyamory' concept intriguing. SWIM does not think most people in practice could handle it. Likely that speaks to a significant proportion of insecurity, but there is also more people who prefer it that way. It would also be difficult to find even a few likeminded people able to actually handle it without hidden resentment, much less a group. Given the rate of breakup of couples alone, combining them would increase the odds of inevitable incompatability significantly, though for some this could also be an alternative to splitting up.
Maybe SWIRadiometer or some other non-entity should set up an 'e-harmony' style site for such like-minded people? Sounds like there's a need...

[radiometer]

Hey Metomni, sorry for misreading you. Regardless, I don't have anything against meaningless sex - the idea turns me on, frankly - it just doesn't work for me.

There's been some mention of discretion in this thread, and I have really mixed feelings about that. All I was saying was that neither of us works in a situation where it is smart to try to find extra-marital partners, our respective workplaces being our main outlet for meeting people.

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIM is not jealous or possessive...

You say that now, you might be surprised were you inclined to explore this route.

...but feels that another person would interfere with a stable relationship

Our first exploration of polyamory was a complete disaster in almost every way. It was entirely our fault for involving ourselves with someone who was mentally unstable and inexperienced in life. That we were flying blind, save for a couple books and well-meaning friends, and that we really wanted to help this person, made things worse.

This went on for months and was very disruptive to our relationship, but once it was finally ended, after much pain, it led to an incredible deepening of our bond, and our mutual complete trust in each others' commitment to it. We already had a good thing going, and after this trial by fire we feel forged together like steel.

I'm happy to report that the experiences we've had since then have been a lot better, and although none has ended badly, neither have they fulfilled our goals.

Regarding our difficulty finding new partners, don't forget that just as in normal partner-seeking, interest in the subjects we discuss here at D-F can limit the number of potential winners considerably.

[saorsa.elegy]

Good luck in your search. i have to say that there is a friend that i have that i am very close to. we have a sexual attraction to each other, and though we haven't acted on it i think that sometime soon we will be adding her to our adventures. she is interested. so like it was stated before, knowing someone that you or your other half is close to may be the best bet. knowing a person very well for a long time will make the relationship more loving, not to mention the sex more gratifiying for everyone involved