Drug info - Beta Blockers: Efficacy, Experiences and Advice

[IntrepidTraveler]

SWIM is interested in attempting to treat some of his physical anxiety symptoms with a beta blocker. Since quitting downers and opiates a month ago, he has suffered from tremors/shakes, sweaty palms and an intermittenly rapid heart beat. SWIM wants to know if any SWIYs out there have any personal experience with using Beta Blockers for the treatment of these symptoms. Did SWIY find them effective? Which specific beta blocker(s) did SWIY take? Which did SWIY find most effective?

[~lostgurl~]

Propanolol worked well for my gurl's social anxiety, see http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...t=25546&page=2

I've heard it works well for tremors too.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Helpful link

[Henry Chinanski]

When Swim used to perform on stage he would alwyas take a betablocker. This stopped his rapid heart beat and sweaty palms completely.

[IntrepidTraveler]

Originally Posted by ~lostgurl~

Propanolol worked well for my gurl's social anxiety, see http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...t=25546&page=2

I've heard it works well for tremors too.

Thanks for pointing that thread out, SWIM had overlooked it!

[Horiz]

SWIM has experiemented twice with 160mg of Half-Inderal (propanolol HCL) and felt nothing whatsoever.

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by Horiz

SWIM has experiemented twice with 160mg of Half-Inderal (propanolol HCL) and felt nothing whatsoever.

This is not a recreational drug, you aren't supposed to "feel" anything, it is more about what you don't feel (anxiety, shakes, rapid heart beat etc)

[Horiz]

True, but it didn't do anything for my anxiety either.

[~lostgurl~]

What sort of anxiety do you have and what are your symptoms?

[Jatelka]

B-Blockers are (sometimes) useful for the somatic symptoms of anxiety. So racing heart, tremor and sweaty palms may be helped.

This can help break the cycle where the somatic symptoms increase panic feelings, which increase somatic symtpoms etc.

The flamingo found them helpful (occasionally) for situation specific anxiety (job interview, giving a lecture etc)

Reputation Comments on this post:

methodical & accurate comments

[Horiz]

General soxial anxiety

[jazzmetalguitar]

Propranolol is prescribed for essential tremor and it is the only beta-blocker which has served such a purpose because it is the only one which is highly-lipophilic and thus CNS-active. In SWIM's personal experience, propranolol doesn't decrease the intensity of his tremors by any more than maybe 5% and something like 40% of ET victims don't respond to propranolol (they are put on a pro-drug form of phenobarbitol). SWIM did notice it tended to release some anxiety and helped with stage fright. SWIM experienced vertigo issues and a feeling of weight on his heart. It does work great for some people though.

Reputation Comments on this post:

awesome informative reply!

[lulz]

The benefits of propanolol (Inderal) will depend on which of the three following reasons you are pursuing:

1) Psycholigical fear

Directly, you should not expect to find it useful in this regard.

When some stimulus regularly results in psychological fear, it appears to be caused by excitation of an area of the brain called the amygdala (and possibly other unidentified regions).

Since too much activity of these neural pathways seems to be the cause, the best treatment is a benzodiazepine like xanax or valium, because these drugs decrease neural activity.

Indirectly, if you are psychologically afraid of people noticing a trembling voice, shaking, or other physical effects, then a beta blocker will be helpful, because it will dampen these effects. But consciously, if you are afraid of certain types of situations/encounters, you'll need something like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to get over the mental fear itself.

2) Physical fear response

If the physical reactions mentioned above are the main problem, then beta blockers may be very helpful for you. Some people aren't so much psycholgically afraid of certain situations/encounters, they are afraid that their body will automatically react with the fight/flight response, and they'll get edgy and other people will notice. If this is the case, beta blockers will (at the right dosage, see a doctor rather than do trial and error on your own) help, because they'll let you experience those situations without the physical fear response, and after a few times of this your brain may no longer produce an adrenaline surge in those situations.

3) Physical response to stimulants

Most stimulants I know of mimic the chemical structure of adrenaline, which is part of the reason why they cause a nervous/anxious response in some people. In those people, beta blockers may reduce or even eliminate the nervous/edgy feeling of their stimulant of choice. SWIM knows for damn sure that they have been helpful in his case.


Safety note

If you happen to be using beta blockers for your own private reasons, whether prescribed or not, beware of the following points:

- If you use them on a regular basis, the adrenaline receptors in your body/brain will "upregulate", which means your system becomes more sensitive to adrenaline. If you suddenly stop taking the beta blockers after your system has gotten used to them, your system could be overwhelmed by a (subjectively) sudden surge of adrenaline. This is potentially very dangerous, and will almost definitely be unpleasant psychologically. If you decide to stop taking them, slowly decrease your dose gradually over a week or two.

- Propanolol (Inderal) is a lipotropic drug, which means that it easily enters your brain. For some people this can cause decreased levels of energy, and even depression. If you experience any such effects, perhaps propanolol is not a good choice for you - but there are other types of beta blocker. Atenolol (Tenormin) for example does not enter the brain easily, and should only block the effects of adrenaline in your body. It is much easier to find propanolol online, but if you think you need a beta blocker and propanolol causes problems for you, simply speak to a doctor about anxiety and ask if they think prescribing you a non-sedating beta blocker will help. The doctor will probably write you a prescription if you describe symptoms of anxiety on a daily basis in social situations and you ask for a beta blocker - beta blockers have no recreational potential, a doctor would usually expect someone to fake anxiety to get a benzo like xanax, but nobody would try and lie to get a beta blocker.

Good luck, they can be handy chems in a number of situations. Be careful though, use your common sense.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	nice info, much appreciated
	Excellent, well researched and accurate post
	Excellent info, thanks

[radiometer]

Propranolol can have lots of unexpected interactions, and is contraindicated with some drugs. For instance, one often sees advice suggesting the use of propranolol to reduce muscle tension on MDMA, but propranolol can can compete for the enzymes which metabolize MDMA, leading to unpredictable effects.

Propranolol can also easily cause hypotension and this effect also can cause further problems with drug interactions. With cocaine, a paradoxical and very risky increase of blood pressure can happen.

I use propranolol (on prescription) occasionally for my job as others have mentioned above. I do not care very much for the side effects which I note even at the low doses I use (10-20mg) and which can get a bit freaky at higher doses (80mg). What doses are others using for the use of curtailing physical anxiety symptoms?

I post this information not to scare one away from propranolol, but just to point out that there are some issues to consider. I do suggest that you UTFSE for "propranolol" as there are a number of threads here on the topic. I also suggest a thorough internet search for "propranolol" + "whatever other drug you're taking" before combining it with anything.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thanks for info on possible adverse reactions to beta-blockers, I had always been led to believe (apparently falselyi) t...
	Good advice, thanks

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by radiometer

I use propranolol (on prescription) occasionally for my job as others have mentioned above. I do not care very much for the side effects which I note even at the low doses I use (10-20mg) and which can get a bit freaky at higher doses (80mg). What doses are others using for the use of curtailing physical anxiety symptoms?

My gurl takes 40mgs as needed (decreased need for it so it seems) and hasn't noticed any interactions or negative side effects.

[IntrepidTraveler]

Originally Posted by ~lostgurl~

My gurl takes 40mgs as needed (decreased need for it so it seems) and hasn't noticed any interactions or negative side effects.

If you don't mind my asking, which specific...substances...has your gurl harmlessly combined with said beta blocker? The official literature on beta blockers and their contraindictions make little reference to issues with recreational drug interactions (besides alcohol, which the literature indicates is not dangerous but can potentially lower the overall efficacy of the beta blocker), but SWIM realizes that doctors and pharmaceutical companies are not necessarily taking patients with his level of poly-drug abuse into account.

Logic tells me that any drug that effects nerve impulses in the heart and has such profound effects on blood pressure and heart rate should definitely be used with caution, especially when mixing with recreational drugs. In particular, SWIM uses a lot of CNS stimulants like cocaine and amphetamine, and is wondering if your gurl has any experience in combining beta blockers with these substances? Analagous to the stimulant + downer = bad logic, it seems intuitive that combining two substances that have opposing effects on the cardioresperatory system could be potentially dangerous.

Also, what about combining them with opiates/oids, which tend to cause resperatory depression? Is there no risk of an unsafe drop in blood pressure/heart rate?

I'd appreciate any help on this..as SWIM is likely asking his doctor about a script for beta blockers sometime next week.

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by IntrepidTraveler

If you don't mind my asking, which specific...substances...has your gurl harmlessly combined with said beta blocker? The official literature on beta blockers and their contraindictions make little reference to issues with recreational drug interactions (besides alcohol, which the literature indicates is not dangerous but can potentially lower the overall efficacy of the beta blocker), but SWIM realizes that doctors and pharmaceutical companies are not necessarily taking patients with his level of poly-drug abuse into account.

My gurl was prescribed propanolol less than 2 months ago and she has not used any recreational drugs with propanalol other than alcohol (large amounts) and cigarettes. Her other prescription medication - Clonazepam 1mg and Melatonin 2mg, are taken at night before bed.

My gurls propanolol is quick release, effects last about 6 hours and she usually takes them late afternoon early evening before any social event.

[radiometer]

From what I've read from other professional musicians who use propranolol to curb symptoms of anxiety, the target dose is that just below which one notices CNS side effects. So, I would guess that your gurl is taking the appropriate dose. I think that I actually don't notice anything much from the 10mg dose, and since it's a given that I'm under stress to begin with if I'm bothering to use the propranolol, I suppose it's difficult to make an objective analysis of what's going on.

My buddy Eddie (who just happens to use propranolol for the same reason) also uses alprazolam in .5mg doses for the same application. He prefers the benzodiazepine to propranolol, as it curbs not just the physical symptoms but the anxiety itself. But he only needs the aid of drugs on rare occasions, thus making the benzo feasible. For extremely stressful occasions such as auditions, he finds it helpful to combine the alprazolam and propranolol, rather than increase the dose of the alprazolam.