Opinions - Bad Day Means Bad Trip?

[mojoriisin]

my marmoset recently purchased around 3 grams of psylocibin mushrooms and was so ready for the experience, as he is a virgin to any hallucinogens. But as fate has it his girlfriend broke up with him last night and he was planning on doing them today. he is in love with her and its killing marmoset to break up with her and it was extremely abrupt and sudden. he feels a little better today and is really good at pushing emotions to the side and is trying to do that now. he can laugh honestly with friends and such but its still hurting the poor critter alot. do you think this will affect his shroom trip? he also has a head cold will that be a problem too?

[Jatelka]

Your girlfriend (who you love deeply) has broken up with you? You feel physically unwell?

Your marmoset is STILL contemplating taking hallucinogenic drugs?

Christ on a bike, I can't believe it

SET/SETTING.

[Shampoo]

First of all, my condolences.

Second, SWIM! read the Rules regarding self-incrimination.

Finally, Jatelka said the key words, SET & SETTING! I would strongly recommend, against all contrary self-delusion of emotional control, that your friend does not take the mushrooms in his state. Having not done psychedelics, he will not know how to handle the intrusive introspection of the experience, and may become wildly overwhelmed with a pensive anxiety, depression, or any other amplification of the feelings he is experiencing.

Recipe for disaster:
3g Mushrooms
1 Recently Estranged Girlfriend
A Pinch of Physical Illness

[Coconut]

I agree with Jatelka and Shampoo. When dealing with the mind, it's better to be safe than sorry in my opinion. SWIY may think he can control his emotions and prevent the trip from going downhill now, but it's an entirely different story while tripping.

[mordecai8614]

swim is going to go ahead and play devils advocate and say that it might be a good idea to trip. swiy has to really examine the situation though, because there are going to be many factors that affect the outcome. If swiy is looking for peace, closure, and acceptance in the break-up, then maybe it wont be a bad idea. swim had a rough break-up of a 3 year relationship this summer and also decided to trip shortly after the break-up, and it was the best idea. swim was able to realize so much about the whole situation and his mixed emotions and was able to sort it all out, it was beautiful.

with that though, swiy mentioned they have never done shrooms before, swiy really has to take that into consideration. swim flipped his f*ckin mind the first time he did shrooms and it was a perfect setting, he just didnt know what to expect and couldnt control it all.

[Perception Addict]

Swim also thinks that it's significant that swiy is pushing the negative feelings aside. In swim's own experience (though she's sure it isn't so for everyone) whenever she tries to repress or push aside something that's bothering her, and then is dumb enough to dose, she finds herself having to deal with whatever it is that she's avoiding, and has a nightmarish trip because of it.

HOWEVER, swim has gained some extremely valuable insights about herself thanks to these painful experiences, and later on she's always glad that she was able to work through her problem.

...it's not very much fun at the time though, seriously.

[stoneinfocus]

Swim thinks the whole setting idea is just imaginary and in all ways unpredictable, as well as the sentence from Leary(?)hallucinogens were just for the educated, intelligent, artist/academic, or upper class control freak as the experience itself is the magic and has little to do with what happened before, but more with how you precept things.. and it could be unrevealed, that a hallucinogen will reveal what´s suposed to be a good setting, to open up pandoras box of the avarage joe´s life, might not have been a good setting... as far as swim goes, he takes it whenever he´s thinking about doing it immediately, despite being in the middle of nowhere, just in cionflict with his partner, with strangers, in the morning, the afternoon in his room -these settings were the most convenient and most relaxing, but he learned more and gotten more into direct touch with life, when doing it in the most absurd scenarios, against all odds.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by stoneinfocus

Swim thinks the whole setting idea is just imaginary and in all ways unpredictable

How can the concept of setting be imaginary? If swiy is way mellow on some LSD and a hurricane blows into swiyour kitchen, shattering windows and knocking over the refirdgerator, will swiy most likely laugh it off and keep on riding the mellow train? or will they react with a distinct degree of terror, perhaps manifesting itself even more profoundly than it would have without the chemical? Leary (as long as he is the reference source) spoke at length about the nature of magnification and clarification, not self-manifestation by the nature of chemicals. In other words, chemicals themselves do not have a predisposition towards activity in a behavioral sense. They have affinities for varying receptors, and efficacy for binding to different sites, but receptor modification does not automatically equal activity. Anti-depressants are a perfect example where receptor modification by SSRIs is almost immediate, yet the effects take several weeks to manifest themselves, implying that there is more at work than a simple chemical--neuron activation relationship.

From a neurological perspective, the neurotransmitters and receptors already active before and during the activity of a drug are unquestionably acting on the manifestations of the drug. Drugs that act as MAOIs prevent neurotransmitter degradation, meaning that the rate at which good and bad chemicals are removed from the synaptic cleft or their site of activity is drastically reduced. How does this manifest itself? The brief terror usually experienced by a near miss in an automobile or slipping on a mountain trail can be extended from its usual almost immediate dispersal to a lingering emotion that guides the remainder of the trip.

As for Leary's quote regarding any insignificance in the air of set & setting, I think this quote from the introduction to The Psychedelic Experience should clear up any confusions about Leary's position on set & setting. "Of course, the drug dose does not produce the transcendent experience. It merely acts as a chemical key - it opens the mind, frees the nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures. The nature of the experience depends almost entirely on set and setting." (The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, By Timothy Leary, Ph.D., Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., & Richard Alpert, Ph.D.)

[stoneinfocus]

You´re right Shampoo, I was simplifying it too much with in interest to polarize about the "setting".

Loosening already manifested patterns with chemicals is a very in dept discussion and I wouldn´t refer to MAOs in this way, as they´re IMHO effecting the opposite of what a hallucinogen will do.
MAOs strengthen a conservative chemical state, which is thought to be a more positive one, hallucinogens will initiate the most intense points of views and aspectsd to be refelcted the next days, months or years -the first being a cast or crook, the latter a high-intense, overreaching training session for the mind, pushing it to and over its limits and limitations.

A hurrican on a trip will be a fight with the outside nature, not so much with insight experiences(?) and swim would distinguish between shrooms and LSD, as LSD is another category-within shrooms, one can choose better, as the duration is shorter and the trip more controllable and "convenient"; tripping on LSD, one could find oneself in many different situations and places, without even knowing how one´s gotten there: 12-20hours is a pretty long time tripping...

Let´s get back to the setting: Is it that predictable "knowing" what state of mind you were in, before the trip and isn´t, once the trip is gone, looking back to the thoughts you had before the trip, one of the most revealing aspects to the trip?

Swim has too much unjustified fear for a "bad" setting and his opinion is it´s not so much what happened before, that makes it predictable if a trip ´s gonna be "good" or "bad", which is why he came up with the argument:when he feels like it, he cuts out the fears, as he thinks, he intentionally already knows it´s the right setting and, as you prob. mean it, could then be further accomodated to a certain location, time etc .

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by stoneinfocus

I wouldn´t refer to MAOs in this way, as they´re IMHO effecting the opposite of what a hallucinogen will do.
MAOs strengthen a conservative chemical state, which is thought to be a more positive one, hallucinogens will initiate the most intense points of views and aspectsd to be refelcted the next days, months or years -the first being a cast or crook, the latter a high-intense, overreaching training session for the mind, pushing it to and over its limits and limitations.

First, MAOIs are commonly used in combination with certain hallucinogenic entheogens, including psilocybin mushrooms, DMT, and DMT-containing plants. Working from a strict definition, MAOIs have indeed been known to induce hallucinations in higher-than medicinal doses. Pharmacologically, the actions of an MAOI are relatively simple and appear entirely inhibitory (inhibition of MAO production) which on a rational or logical level seems like it would translate to cognitive inhibition.* Behaviorally, the actions of an MAOI are actually quite diverse. Since MAO is responsible for the degradation of a vast array of neurotransmitters, an increased release of any neurotransmitter will be magnified an prolonged. i.e. if Dopamine were to be released, it would persist in its activation of D receptors, most likely resulting in pleasurable stimulation, but if norepinephrine were released, it would also persist beyond its normal reaction time, most likely resulting in an increased heart rate, anxiety, and other associated 'adrenaline-rush' characteristics. Thus, MAOIs are not necessarily sedentary nor positive, an attribute swim can certainly attest to.

swim would distinguish between shrooms and LSD, as LSD is another category-within shrooms, one can choose better, as the duration is shorter and the trip more controllable and "convenient"; tripping on LSD, one could find oneself in many different situations and places, without even knowing how one´s gotten there: 12-20hours is a pretty long time tripping...

12 hours should be the late tailend of an LSD experience. 12-20 hour experiences are usually attributed to DOx compounds sold as LSD.

*another example of a psychoactive thats neurological effects do not translate to its behavioral effects is alprazolam, or xanax. The first interaction with alprazolam is the excitation of GABA receptors, which through a series of events, leads to the eventual inhibition of cognitive functioning.

[illume.]

IMO swiy should wait a while until the emotional stage of any said breakup has moved on to the acceptance stage. although its quite a subjective thing, how swiy feels when in normal waking reality often will not give any indication of the subconcious state. this is indicated in swiy saying they "can deal with it" if theres anything to be dealt with, it will no doubt manifest itself in someway or other.that bieng said its up to swiy

[Micklemouse]

Leaving the trip until one has no emotional upheaval in one's life is the best, & only advice to be given here,especially as the original poster stated that his panda was a mushroom virgin & is physically unwell! Tripping at this stage in his life would make him a saaad panda!

Recommending a MAOI supplement to a Shroom virgin has to be one of the most irresponsible things A Certain Mouse has seen in a while, again especially given recent life events in this case. This could be a fast ride to the psych ward if things went wrong! For a new tripper Set & Setting are paramount!

Anyhoo, this may all be academic, as it doesn't look like the OP has been back for a while.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

Recommending a MAOI supplement to a Shroom virgin has to be one of the most irresponsible things A Certain Mouse has seen in a while, again especially given recent life events in this case. This could be a fast ride to the psych ward if things went wrong! For a new tripper Set & Setting are paramount!

Anyhoo, this may all be academic, as it doesn't look like the OP has been back for a while.

Who is recommending an MAOI supplement?

[Micklemouse]

Originally Posted by Shampoo

Who is recommending an MAOI supplement?

My mistake! Apologies! Not at me best first thing, & misread/understood! What I should have said was that discussion of MAOI's at this stage is a bit premature - the OP is a newb, & to intensify to that level would not be wise.

MAOI's are not constrained to pharmaceuticals such as Moclobemide & Phenelzine. Harmaline, for example, is a MAOI sometimes used by experienced psychonauts to potentiate psilocybe & DMT experiences, & there is a MAOI component to Ayahuasca . Some MAOI's if used wisely, appear to be relatively safe physically with tryptamines such as psilocybin, but please do avoid them at all costs with phethylamines & prescribed antidepressants.

[stoneinfocus]

*lol* you stated MAOs to be used in combo with hallucinognes were commonly used, while it´s the other way around, one should avoid MAOs well before a trip, like weeks

The action of hallucinogens´s mediated -and here comes the sides of MAOs in play, by serotonergic action on receptorsides... there´s a very good expertise about 5-HT in the DF-library, which briefly goes into x-tasy, LSD effects, also. Highly recommended!

The effects of some substances within the receptors, e.g amfetamines, are always contradictionary, too, as alpha2 adrenergic receptors will be activated having analgesic, anxiolytic effects, Norepinephrine might well lead to bradycardy instead of tachycardy, whilst same mechanisms activated by the same substance would lead to opposing effects in different tissues and it´s very dose-dependent, also.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by stoneinfocus

*lol* you stated MAOs to be used in combo with hallucinognes were commonly used, while it´s the other way around, one should avoid MAOs well before a trip, like weeks

lol? MAOs? If you are referring to MAOIs, as I and Micklemouse both stated, MAOIs including both pharmaceuticals and harmala/harmaline are commonly used to potentiate the effects of certain tryptamines, especially in the case of oral DMT through the Ayahuasca or synthetic route.

The action of hallucinogens´s mediated -and here comes the sides of MAOs in play, by serotonergic action on receptorsides... there´s a very good expertise about 5-HT in the DF-library, which briefly goes into x-tasy, LSD effects, also. Highly recommended!

hallucinogens's mediated? Receptorsides? Please clarify

Overall, Micklemouse seems correct to say that MAO discussion should be kept to more appropriate threads, even though the OP seems long-gone. If this conversation seems more appropriately placed elsewhere, feel free (if a mod) to move it, or it can just be tapered off quickly.

[stoneinfocus]

Originally Posted by Shampoo

lol? MAOs? If you are referring to MAOIs, as I and Micklemouse both stated, MAOIs including both pharmaceuticals and harmala/harmaline are commonly used to potentiate the effects of certain tryptamines, especially in the case of oral DMT through the Ayahuasca or synthetic route.



hallucinogens's mediated? Receptorsides? Please clarify

Overall, Micklemouse seems correct to say that MAO discussion should be kept to more appropriate threads, even though the OP seems long-gone. If this conversation seems more appropriately placed elsewhere, feel free (if a mod) to move it, or it can just be tapered off quickly.

Seems like anglo-americans can´t handle german sentence-constructions. *g*
Yes, that´s why MAOI ( called MAOs where I come from as an abrr. abbrevation) potenciate the effects, but there´s a lot of research to be done as ther´re many subtypes of 5-HT receptors and different effects and a serotonine syndrome isn´t very nice and swim thinks one of the most lousy ways to die... say, yohimbine as a MAOI will act diferntly with substnace a, causing a serotonine syndrome e.g. with tramadol, whilst amfetamine as a partial MAOI will yield nearly the opposite effects within the right dose and co-adminisrtated substance.

That´s why I said MAOs should be avoided or are said to be avoided by the newbee, but when you read my sentence more closely, swiy could get the idea from it, of takinng the 5-HT effects of hallucinogens to a higher power by MAOs as both act mostly through the same substance or this substance´s receptorsides.

[[éS]Infinite]

A bad day doesn't necessarily mean a bad trip, but it increases the likelihood. SWIM finds that mushrooms do, however, bring out the positive light in everything, however as SWIY isn't experienced with psychedelics if may not be the case. SWIM would say that if SWIY isn't ready to move on from the relationship completely, to delay the trip. Once that has been done, SWIY'll be able to see why it happened and be happy for it (hopefully).