trying to get off suboxone (buprenorphine) again

[JaWill88]

okay swim has been on Suboxone (buprenorphine/naloxone) for a little more than 1 year (got on it the day after christmas last year) and really wants to get off. the problem with it is the withdrawals. swim got on suboxone for a heroin (diacetylmorphine) addiction and it worked well but he got on maintenance and didn't just use it for detox, which was a big mistake. for the majority of the time swim has been on it, he has been on the highest dose prescribed, which is 32mg a day. swim would take 16mg in the morning and 16mg later in the afternoon. swim has withdrawn from heroin a few times and it really blows ass. especially after doing it at least 3 times a day for like 5 months. but the thing is, the withdrawals last usually not more than 7 days. it is seven days of hell of course but still, its only seven days. swim used to think it was the worst thing on earth, until he tried to come off suboxone. with suboxone the withdrawals aren't quite as intense, but all the major symtoms are still there. for swim thats naseua, internally hot/ externally cold, sweating profusly, restless legs as well as restless body/mind in general, fatigue but insomnia, and no appetite, can never get comfortable, and the worst for swim is the anxiety of all of it. anyways the thing about suboxone is that the withdrawals last soooo damn long. maybe because of the duration swim has been on it, and the dose that he was on while on it. it has an even longer life than methadone. last time swim tried to come off it, he got to day 16 with just clonazepam, and the withdrawals were just coming to a peak! thats insane to swim. when swim looks back on heroin withdrawals that would be a blessing. so, swim is using short acting opioids so he will become physically addicted to those and not buprenorphine, so he can have a short detox, and may actually use suboxone or methadone just for like 4 or 5 days to get through the worst of it. well swim has been off the sub for about 5 or 6 days now and has been using the smallest amounts of heroin possible about 2 or 3 times a day, just enough to stay well. basically swim is wondering how long he should do this so when he detoxes it will be from heroin and not suboxone so it's short. swim doesn't want to find that he didn't use heroin long enough and has buprenorphine withdrawals. that would be aweful. swim is thinking that he needs to use it for about how long it would take the withdrawals from buprenorphine to happen, which would probably be a month, maybe month and a half. does this sound correct? or would swim just have to stay on it long enough to get addicted to heroin which would only take a week or two? swim is probably going to stay on the cautious side and stay on it for a month or two to be absolutely positive there will be no buprenorphine withdrawals. but basically swim is wondering if anyone has any input? has anyone else got of buprenorphine? maybe done something similar? should buprenorphine withdrawals last this long? swim thinks so cause it always seems with drugs the longer the life the longer the withdrawals are, but some could be totally wrong. basically swim would just love some input or someone to relate to. that would really be great.

[nightfire]

Man, Suboxone SUX hard core. You reckon that's bad..! Swig and his girlfriend have been injecting up to 15mg a day each. Taking it orally is one thing, but IV'ing it REALLY starts the symptoms. When you take pretty much anything orally, you're only getting around 1/4, if that much of the actual dose. Sublingually, (under the tongue), you're getting a bit more. Injecting however, well you know the rest...
That's not the only problem either with IV'ing. You are also getting all the cutters and flavoring, (lemon/lime) that goes along with it, aswell as the naloxone, which is supposed to stop you feeling any effects, but doesn't...
Swig was thinking about ways to try and purify to get rid of all that crap, but the largest tablets are only 8mg, and working with such small amounts in a non-lab setting would lose half of it. B.T.W, have you seen how close the molecule is to heroin? You would only have to do a couple of tweaks here and there to get your self some top quality gear! Problem is building up enough to work with, without using it all in the mean time. I reckon the prescribing doctor would go thru the roof if Swig suddenly wanted to put his dose up to 32mg from 12mg a day! Anywayz, I hope you can do it! You should probably work your way down to a very small amount, (1-2 mg a day) before you 'jump off'. Jumping from that height, (32mg), would be like jumping off a half-a-gram-a-day, or more habit.
P.S Smoking dope doesn't help any either, it only serves to make the symptoms worse. Drinking alcohol might help, but then again, you get pretty pissed pretty quickly, and the hangovers are MURDER! Another !!!
Thanx for listening, I hope all goes well for you!

[sarbanes]

I don't know. I know heroin is bad, and I know methadone is the worst. But honestly, I have been able to kick Suboxone with minimal (and I mean MINIMAL) discomfort. Even though bup has a very long duration of action, you *still* must taper taper TAPER. Once your subsistent on small fractions of an 8mg tab, cut it off, and wait 2-3 days until you feel irritable. Then get drunk. Next day you will wake up and be clean. To this day, I believe the alcohol is somehow a key ingredient. Your mileage may vary.

Tapering is the simplest, most elegant and underrated method for quitting opioids relatively painlessly. Why substitute another drug which doesn't work as well? The drug you are hooked on is, by definition, the perfect drug to use for the taper - an ideal match.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thank you...finally something positive about bupe tapering! i thought i was gonna lose my mind swimming in negativity! ...

[teddybearpicnics]

wow swiy is in a situation. taper, maybe a couple benzos for the first few days, and maybe some whisky at night to go to bed.

[Politicalchalk]

Nightfire, Swim is curious to know if you were injecting Suboxone (Bupe/nalaxone combo), Subutex (just buprenorphine), or Temgesic (just bupe, much lower amounts per pill, 0.4mg or there abouts if Swim remembers correctly)?

As for Bupe withdrawl, well, unfortunately one just has to avoid opiates. Swim's koala had played with hydro- and oxy- codone, among the others. That's why he went for the bupe, to avoid withdrawl. if you tingle your opiate receptors, they'll give you hell. Swim avoids heroin as it often has other substances, everything from fentanyl ("china white") to baby powder. Pills are more reliable. Swim's koala did mention that smoking pot helped him a lot (kept his mind occupied, not constantly focusing on withdrawl symptoms. He doesn't drink often, but did at one time. Alcohol has been shown in studies to increase opiate peptides in the brain...so getting shitfaced and caroling down the street with a merry band of drunks really supressed withdrawl...but than again, who HASN'T been in a Dionysian cult at one time?

When it comes to wd, symptomatic relief is the key. If clonazepam works for you, go for that. Make sure not to OD seeking relief. The actual duration of wd is going to vary from person to person. The idea is that, even though the half life is 72hrs, the symptoms are less severe, compared to other opiates, but Swim believes it to merely be a matter of taste. The koala found it useful. The shorter the half life, the more intense the symptoms will be.

Has Swim considered Darvon? It's a propoxyphene product without the acetaminophen. Propoxy is much less sought after than say, hydrocodone. It's chemically related to methadone, but is much less potent. The koala thought it best to try and have the greatest amount of time between bupe dosing and any other opiate. It could send you into terrible wd. The koala was surprised to find that he was able to detox on propoxyphene, zolpidem (ambien), and diphenoxylate (lomotil).

A note on lomotil. It's actually an opiate related to meperidine/pethidine (Demerol). It's used exclusively to treat the shits. It DOES NOT cross the blood-brain barrier. This means that it doesn't induce relief from withdrawl (except the above), induces no euphoria. It only binds to the opiate receptors in yer gut. It's a Schedule V drug, the lowest in the CSA.

If you can control your will enough, tapering is the best method. Pick an opiate, stick with it, use less every day. WILL IS KEY. Take a look at yourself, and decide if you can do it. Honestly, most people can't totally drop opiate use this way, so inpatient treatment should be considered as an option. Also, you can ask the pharmacist, or someone who's familiar with your medical history (...all of it), there are many dietary supplements which could help.

[y0ssarianlives]

Hi.

SWIM heard a story about a rehab center suggesting the same thing; this lab rat was on methadone and wanted to detox so they suggested getting back on heroin for a month so they could actually detox the lab rat in a much shorter period of time.

So yah, a month should do the trick for SWIY. Just BE FREAKING CAREFUL IF THAT IS THE PATH YOU CHOOSE TO TAKE!