Viridis Labs Ephedra 5

[Feelingood]

Ephedra 5 Contains per capsule(90 per bottle):

Niacin 15mg
Ephedra Viridis 100mg
5 Proprietary Blend 553mg:
Caffeine Anhydrous, Green Tea Extract (60% EGCG), Betaine, Quercetin, Octopamine HCL, Yohimbine HCL

Other Ingredients: Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, And Water

Ok, how does this work? I thought Ephedra was banned from Fat loss supplements? i remember the Ma Huang supplements containing around 500mg, is this legal because its so little? Someone help me out here.

Reputation Comments on this post:

you are doing good

[RaverHippie]

That is not the ephedrine that many people fiend for, that is the scientific and taxonomic name of an actual plant that contains traces of ephedrine alkaloids naturally.

[Feelingood]

Sorry for the double post, but it seems that Ephedra Viridis(Mormon Tea) is legal because it contains little Ephedrine Alkaloids. So what kind of stimulant effects can be expected? This just a scam?

[moda00]

(This is my initial response- please see edit for corrected info. I was confused about the difference between Ephedrine, the actual chemical compound, and ephedra sinica the plant.) Initially the FDA did ban ephedrine. Last I heard, I believe that the ban was repealed(?) and now it is generally legal to possess on a federal level with some restrictions on sale as I interpret it? States within the U.S. can also place their own restrictions on this or any other substance. The wording of the law now reads something about a ban on the sale of any ephedrine and ephedrine-alkaloid containing product that is not approved by the FDA.. somewhat confusing, but I know that there is no longer an all-around ban on the substance. Some states have banned "OTC non-medicinal sales" but can still sell approved medications containing it- not sure whether this means any Over-The-Counter sale is illegal in that state (CA) or whether it OTC is just a confusingly worded qualifier for the "non-medicinal" that follows, which is still pretty hard to define, methinks. I believe legally ephedrine and pseudo-ephedrine are considered equivalent, as "ephedrine and alkaloids," and again are legal to possess, but often there is a requirement of proof of identity, signing a registry, limits on quantity an individual can purchase, due to their use as a precursor to methamphetamine and such.. Anywho, the wording is difficult to interpret, but basically I think it is generally legal but some restrictions apply, and of course it is important to check into both federal and one's state's laws, which can change over time and/or include restrictions not included in the federal law. So please don't just take my word for it, and anyone can feel free to jump in if they have more info or need to correct something I said.

Here is a link to Erowid's legal status page for ephedrine; hopefully this is helpful. They have good info for most substances in U.S. and many other countries. It's also good to check elsewhere if there is any doubt, just to be sure, as things can change, but usually I think the legal pages are pretty accurate and up-to-date..
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ephe...rine_law.shtml

Originally Posted by Feelingood

Sorry for the double post, but it seems that Ephedra Viridis(Mormon Tea) is legal because it contains little Ephedrine Alkaloids. So what kind of stimulant effects can be expected? This just a scam?

EDIT: responding to second post as well.. if a substance is illegal, it is generally illegal in any amount- unless that substance is specifically legal but restricted. But methinks the restrictions on ephedrine are more limitations on how many total grams of product, or boxes/bottles of product, or whatever, purchased by a single individual- NOT restrictions on the amount of ephedrine or its alkaloids in any given pill or tea. That said, there are certainly websites which will sell prescription products without verifying an actual prescription, or even sell products that are legal in their area and shipping that product illegally to countries in which that substance is either illegal or questionably legal as an analogue or such.. and some health food stores continued to carry ghb and analogues after they were made illegal.. so if you are seeing a product offered online or even elsewhere, it doesn't necessarily make it legal, as there is a huge financial incentive for black market business on illegal or quasi-legal drugs.. you have to be responsible for what you buy or consume within your area's laws.. but in general I think what I said above is pretty accurate as far as legal status of ephedrine (which I think is the same as ephedra- correct me if I'm wrong) in the U.S. EDIT #3:
Sorry, should have checked more thoroughly before posting this; my apologies for any misinformation. The ban was ordered to be reconsidered, but this appeal was appealed, if that makes sense, and the ban on ephedrine went back into effect in 2006 in the U.S. Also, I searched erowid again and found that there was a second legal "vault" for Ephedra, not Ephedrine.. apparently ephedra refers to ephedra sinica, a plant containing these alkaloids. The plant itself is NOT illegal, but efforts to isolate the ephedrine or make preparations for human consumption ARE.

Also, swim has never tried such products, so cannot vouch anything regarding their effects. But yes it is a stimulant, so she suspects effects will be somewhere in between other common stims- caffeine, maybe coca tea/leaves, Rx amphetamines? Not sure what it is most comparable to, but apparently it is used as a weight loss supplement (decreased appetite, increased activity/metabolism) and energy supplement (increased wakefulness and stimulation)- all common "stimulating" effects of such substances. That said, I think I remember hearing there were health concerns- stims can be hard on the heart, so please research it before swiy tries it, and don't overdo it- start low and see how it affects swiy personally..

Edit number 2: RaverHippie's post just popped up.. I don't want to spread any inaccurate info.. but how does that work? I know of "ma huang" and such, it is an herb containing ephedrine, right? A natural source of ephedrine alkaloids? But from the way I interpreted the law, ephedrine alkaloids and ephedrine are legally qualified the same way..? Again, I'm not an expert, just trying to make sure we all have accurate info.. anyone else know if this is differentiated? I mean, with THC, whether a big chunk of weed, or a semi-synthetic product containing such, or even the seeds with the potential to grow into marijuana- they are the same thing. Or cocaine- can technically be produced entirely in a lab, but usually is not- but either product is legally considered to be equivalent. I was under the impression that the initial ephedrine ban was more for health risks than drug abuse, but again this is all my own impressions, and I will look into this further and try to find documentation of these things.. Will post again momentarily..
>>
EDIT #3: Sorry, should have checked more thoroughly before posting this; my apologies for any misinformation. The ban was ordered to be reconsidered, but this appeal was appealed, if that makes sense, and the ban went back into effect in 2006. Also, I searched erowid and found that there was a second legal "vault" for Ephedra, not Ephedrine.. apparently ephedra refers to ephedra sinica, a plant containing these alkaloids. The plant itself is NOT illegal, but efforts to isolate the ephedrine or make preparations for human consumption ARE. Hope this helps.. From erowid's Ephedra legal status page:

"Ephedra sinica is not specifically a controlled species in the United States. Live plants and seeds are bought and sold and are clearly legal in the US. Ephedra contains a racemic mixture of ephedrine (pseudoephedrine and ephedrine). Ephedrine is controlled for sale in many countries and states because it is a stimulant.

In December 2003, the US FDA, after a previous failed attempt, announced its intention to ban supplement products containing ephedra and its extracts. The final rule took effect on April 12, 2004 [Federal Register 69(28)]. This action followed several years of the FDA's work to ban ephedrine-containing supplements. The FDA cited health problems, including some deaths, as the primary reason for the ban on this category of supplements. There is speculation that the increased scrutiny on ephedrine is also related to the War on Drugs effort to reduce availability of methamphetamine precursors. The restriction only applies to preparations sold for human use and does not apply to whole plants or other non-ingestion uses.

In April 2005, a federal judge ordered the FDA to reconsider its ban of ephedra-containing products. However, in August 2006 the U.S. Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals overruled the lower judge and reinstated the FDA's ban on the sale of all ephedra-containing products for human consumption."

**Am now interested in how this works.. are ephedrine and pseudoephedrine (not in the plant, but isolated for human consumption) both illegal? It seems not, because you can buy Sudafed etc. (with the whole limitations/registry thing to prevent use as a meth precursor).. or did they change the formulation entirely? Does pseudoephedrine have stimulating effects like ephedrine? I never noticed that when using it in childhood for congestion.. Is the ephedrine/pseudoephedrine comparable to the dextro- and levo-amphetamine salts in Adderall- they refer to both as "racemic mixtures?" Perhaps this is one of those weird loopholes.. as it seems it is quite hit or miss.. Weird. Anyways, do let us know if swiy ends up trying the ephedra tea. Is it an online vendor or a store? I would think if the plant is legal they could sell it as a tea without issue.. so perhaps best to buy it from a grocery or health food store rather than online, unless one knows and trusts the vendor..

[Feelingood]

I have noticed pseudoephedrine has some stimulant effects, but that was in high doses of Claritan D for allergies. Usually this effect is mellowed out because of the other ingredient, Loratadine, has a sedative effect. I don't think pseudoephedrine is comparable to ephedrine. The dextro- and levo-amphetamine salts would be a apt comparison relationship wise. I will be trying the Tea soon, and its from the largest bodybuilding site on the web, so I'm thinking it's legit. I don't think the stimulant effects will be too much stronger than caffeine, because this species of plant contains very little ephedrine Alkaloids compared to the ephedra sinica. So maybe it's thepseudoephedrine plus other less known alkaloids that will give a stimulant effect.

Will report when i get a chance to try it

[bcubed]

**Am now interested in how this works.. are ephedrine and pseudoephedrine (not in the plant, but isolated for human consumption) both illegal? It seems not, because you can buy Sudafed etc. (with the whole limitations/registry thing to prevent use as a meth precursor).. or did they change the formulation entirely?

Perhaps I can shed a little light on this...though I have as many questions as answers here. For background, my dad worked for 3+ decades for a health/nutrition store better know by its three initials. The way legality works in the U.S., DRUGS are "illegal" for sale until studies have been done, etc, and the FDA gives ok. (Essentially, "default setting=illegal".) FOODS are inherently legal (no-one had to "o.k" wheat, for instance) unless they've been deemed unsafe or adulterated ("default setting=legal".)

Then there's the issue of SUPPLEMENTS. Due to the fact that the FDA doesn't particularly care to individually clear every vitamin, herb, etc, there's kind of a "don't ask/don't tell" policy in place: as long as sellers don't specifically suggest a pharmacuetical benefit, the FDA will treat supplements as foodstuffs (though I doubt anyone hungers for a heapin' helpin' of creatine monohydrate!)

What happened in the case of Ephedra is that the FDA determined the risk excessive and deemed any food preperation containing "plant-derived" ephedrine or p.e alkaloids to be "adulterated." Specifically exempted were pharmaceutical applications and traditional medicine uses. AFAIK, the "adulterated" tag only makes SALE illegal: soda containing bleach would be adulterated, illegal to sell (for internal use), but not to possess.

So, what spiked my curiousity: since the "scope" of the FDA's powers extend only to food, drugs and (I believe) cosmetics, would "100% MaHuang Toilet Bowl Cleaner--NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!" be legal to sell, and for my lizard to possess?

Also: synthetic eph. and p.e. are (by definition) drugs, and treated as such. Only plant-derived e/p.e. were ever legal to sell as supplements. I am unsure as to the extent to which the alkaloids can be refined and extracted.

(In addition to familial experience, I also read portions of the FDA rulemaking regarding this.)

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good info.

[Stephenwolf]

Regardless of actual legality of the plant do any swiys think there is a risk for SwiSW to order bulk ephedra sinica due to the DEA's problems with it and meth?