Addiction - Bad effect on G

[kevc978]

Hi, i dont now if anyone else gets this but its freaky.

swim takes GBL for reasons of alcohol abuse, it really helps him and he hasnt had a drink for well over 8 months

his problem is (rarely) when he falls asleep, he wakes up about an hour later, dizzy as fuck and breathing really heavy, he cant remember ANYTHING (name, where he is, what happened etc.)

He reports a dry mouth, dizziness, feelings of impending death and loss of memory. He thinks this may be a panic attack as he is liable to them and has anxiety issues. His problem is, this doesnt happen when he is off G.

Does this happen to anyone else? is this possibly a sign he is taking too much?

Thanks!

[tip]

Start taking LSD!!!!!!! GBL is shit for alcoholism!

Reputation Comments on this post:

No actual points taken away (cos it's not that bad) but still, I disapprove, that's really not helpful.

[autodidact]

Hi kevc978,

However much SWIY is taking, it is clearly WAY too much!
Classic overdose symptoms with nasty things like death a very real possibility.
SWIY's central nervous system sounds seriously depressed.
How much is SWIY taking?

[MrG]

Questionable alternative suggestions asides, SWIY would be better off converting the GBL to GHB. A quick trawl through the G forum will uncover numerous reports of various "issues" in respect of GBL use that are not apparent with GHB.

[kevc978]

Well yes he is on a considerable amount, about 1ml/Hour up to 12 hours a day.

I would agree it sounds like his cns has depressed so severe he has possibly stopped breathing, thus, his body waking up, heart poundin, very very dizzy and no memory for roughly 10 mins.

[MrG]

Jesus H. Another one.

Listen, SWIY needs to know he HAS to begin quitting his GBL habit.

Hourly daytime use is dangerous and, unfortunately, is serious. How long has SWIY been dosing this way?

[kevc978]

swim started doin that way only recently, id say i noticed he was doing it about a month ago, before then it was once every 4 hours, sadly with an addictive personality he got himself mentally addicted and anything short of this now "regular" dose and he goes through a similar episode comparable to serious alcohol withdrawal.

Am i to believe this would be less damaging to swim than a 1 year period of 12/7 alcohol abuse? He reports no other side effects except from this "sleep" thing.

Changing to HB is an option for him although he is no chemist and is shit scared of messin it up.

[autodidact]

SWIMrG is right, says SWIM.
SWIY weaning himself off GBL is his only option.

Taking GHB instead is a non-starter and SWIY will only end up taking double to achieve a comparable effect.
And then there's the possibility of scarred internals if SWIY botches the mix.

Perhaps SWIY could try taking the amino acid L-tyrosine as this will help support dopamine production, a neurotransmitter SWIY will be very low on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosin...or_to_hormones

[MrG]

Originally Posted by kevc978

Changing to HB is an option for him although he is no chemist and is shit scared of messin it up.

It doesn't get much more straightforward than this:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26198

It's simply adding NaOH to GBL in the correct proportions and heating correctly. End of.

Actually GHB *would* be a better option for SWIY as it has far less withdrawal issues when recovering from chronic dosing.

SWIY hasn't been on this dosing schedule for too long thank goodness, but he still needs to put a stop to it asap. Have him do the conversion to GHB and then start to cut down his dosing.

TBH if he was dosing *every* evening for a few hours it wouldn't even be a problem. Chronic daytime dosing, however, creates a different situation in respect of Dopamine and GABA receptor activity and quickly becomes a problem.

Start by having him cut down his GBL use *today* as much as he can whilst he is getting his stuff together to make a batch of GHB.

[kevc978]

Understood with constant dosing re GABA receptors.

[autodidact]

Kevc978, SWIY might be interested in what SWI Shuras_Lab_assistant had to say on the pros and cons of coming off either substance:

Originally Posted by Shuras_Lab_assistant

BTW:
SWIM thinks that GHB withrdawal is more intense in the psychological sense (anxiety, nightmares, strange mind states)
GBL withdrawal is more taxing on the body (sweating, body aching, tremor...)

SWIM could deal better GBL but it is harder to keep a strict schedule for some people.

SWIM writes: I guess it's a case of 'which would be the more bearable?'
I may have swallowed, and even chewed my way through, a lot of GHB over the years, but I've also had a fair bit of experience with GBL too.
For me, at least, the subjective experience produced by both chemicals is virtually indistinguishable (GLB slightly heavier if I was forced to explain use of 'virtually'), so long as the dose is correct (ie GBL dose roughly half that of GHB).
Further, neither has left me 'hungover' the next day.

(SWIMrG, look away now)

Although my intake currently breaks down to something like 99% GHB and 1%GBL, consuming more of the latter would actually make a fair bit of sense.
1. The effects it produces last a wee bit longer.
2. The effects it produces are a wee bit stronger.
3. You don't become a criminal and don't risk jail by not converting it into GHB.
4. You let your own body do the GBL to GHB reaction.
5. You can't get done if caught with it (for the moment anyway).

Despite whatever sense it makes, I'll still be sticking to my old pal GHB as GBL is just so unpleasant to take.
Oh, and because, if you are not careful, GBL is unparalleled in melting the plastics of various kitchen appliances.

TBH, if GBL were tasteless, odourless and not a mucous membrane/skin irritant, I sincerely doubt anyone would convert it into GHB.

[MrG]

Not much time to go into details this week. Very busy.

However, too late, I did look.

Some points may be valid but there is still weighty evidence to support withdrawing with GHB over GBL.

Two words: Metabolic Acidosis.

I'll try and go into more details on this subject when I have time.

[autodidact]

Originally Posted by MrG

Not much time to go into details this week. Very busy.

However, too late, I did look.

Some points may be valid but there is still weighty evidence to support withdrawing with GHB over GBL.

Two words: Metabolic Acidosis.

I'll try and go into more details on this subject when I have time.

SWIM writes:
Though hardly an expert on the subject, from what I understand, metabolic acidosis occurs at high levels of GBL intake from there being more plasma CO2 due to respiratory depression associated with said high doses.
However, that said, if you were taking GHB at doses where the effects were comparable you'd get acidosis as well from the exact same respiratory depression, non?

[MrG]

http://www.ceri.com/q_v7n4q1.htm

Originally Posted by CERI

I have two concerns. The first is acidosis. Every molecule of GBL that is hydrolyzed by lactonase generates one molecule of GHB-acid [illustration not shown], or, equivalently, consumes one molecule of hydroxide [sidebar not shown]. This can alter pH (acidity-alkalinity) in the blood stream. In some people, blood acidification might be a problem. While it is true that 1-2 grams of an organic acid is not a very large acidification effect in absolute terms, it happens in a relatively short period of time and may have subtle effects on pH-dependent systems. For example, blood pH is critical for regulating the binding and release of oxygen from hemoglobin. This might affect somebody with emphysema (with deficient oxygen absorption) or diabetes (with higher risk of lactic acidosis) more than somebody in good health.

Oh, and besides acidosis, SWIM knows only too well how the slightest dosing error with GBL can kick ones ass, even experienced asses.

[autodidact]

Sounds fair enough.
SWIM lives and learns.

SWIM notices, though, that the info in that link seems to quite like GBL:

The predominance of strong positive effects over weak adverse effects at such high dosages establishes that GBL is fundamentally safe and potentially beneficial.

SWIM liked this bit too:

At the end of 2 years (old age, for rats), the survival of male rats was 48% for the control group, 54% for the intermediate-dose group and 64% for the high-dose group. That’s right, the GBL-treated male rats lived longer!

Go, GBL!

Originally Posted by MrG

Oh, and besides acidosis, SWIM knows only too well how the slightest dosing error with GBL can kick ones ass, even experienced asses.

SWIM replies: Yes, siree!
Once I took a fairly regular GHB dose (6 or 7ml), only to find that, upon swallowing, it was in fact GBL!
Uh-oh!
Here it comes.
And then I was awake again, but with a VERY sore neck.

[kimotag]

If swim did gbl everyday his kidneys would be in bits!