Physical addiction to clonazepam

[JaWill88]

swim knows clonazepam can have a reallly long half life. looking at the benzodiazepine comparison charts it seems that it can have a longer half life than any other benzos. swim saw it could be like 500 hours... [The usual figure is 18-50 hours, so I'm imagining the 500 was a typo, and 50 was the intended figure - Dickon]. lol so swim is wondering if taking clonazepam once every like maybe 3 of 4 days for months on end could cause physical addiction? since it has such a long life. swim is prescibed to them to take as needed for anxiety. so it's basically about 2-3 times a week at 2mg per dose. can this cause dependency?

[SuprSonik]

Originally Posted by JaWill88

swim knows clonazepam can have a reallly long half life. looking at the benzodiazepine comparison charts it seems that it can have a longer half life than any other benzos. swim saw it could be like 500 hours... . lol so swim is wondering if taking clonazepam once every like maybe 3 of 4 days for months on end could cause physical addiction? since it has such a long life. swim is prescibed to them to take as needed for anxiety. so it's basically about 2-3 times a week at 2mg per dose. can this cause dependency?

It's possible, but SWIM thinks it's highly unlikely with only 2-3 uses a week. 500 hours seems ridiculously high; if anyone takes that long to get clonazepam out of their system, SWIM thinks they are a very rare case. With a half-life that long, it might take weeks for withdrawal symptoms to appear.

[JaWill88]

yeah good point. but even if it's only 100 hours it still seems kind of scary to swim. btw it's more like swim uses it 3-4 times a week. is this cutting it a little close? swim has had a bad physical dependency on heroin (diacetylmorphine) for a long time and that alone was aweful. now swim is on suboxone (buprenorphine) and is physically dependent on that. the last thing swim needs is a physical dependency on benzodiazepines as he has much knowledge of what happens without them, and it's not pretty. also sometimes swim binges for like a week and then goes back to taking it 3-4 times a week. do swiys still think hes cutting it close or is he safe. he has been doing this for a few months now and wonders if he will have some kind of symptoms if he doesn't have them for a while. the only thing swim notices is that if he doesn't take any for like 5 or 6 days he gets pretty bad anxiety for no reason at all. is this a warning, is swim very mildly dependent or is he comepletely safe and good to go?

[JaWill88]

swim is getting kind of worried now. he just doesn't feel right when he doesn't have them in his body now. it's weird. when swim doesn't have benzos for a few days it really sucks. swim feels severe anxiety, like anxiety he never had even before taking clonazepam. and his muscles started spasming at night. and he has had this headache for days that WOULD NOT go away. more like a migraine. swim just took 4 lorazepams and feels much better. it is kicking in as swim is typing and the headache, anxiety, weird muscle spasms, and had some insomnia, which are all going away now. is this some minor dependence on benzodiazepines or something else? swim did have a month where he used benzos pretty much every day for 3 weeks. after that he started to do the 1 week binge and then only like maybe 4 times a week clonazepam. for a couple weeks. he has been doing this for a few months now.

[JaWill88]

swim is getting a little more worried each day as time goes on. now that he thinks about it he is using them almost every day. mostly clonazepam but sometimes lorazepam or alprazolam. swim probably uses them 5 to 6 days a week now. his use has increased a bit. he used to be able to take 1.0mg of clonazepam and he would feel pretty damn good. then 1.5mg was what it would take after a while. at this moment it's 2.0mg clonazpam. swim is wondering if he should do a quick taper. if swim has a dependcy (physically that is) it is pretty minor but swim is now pretty damn convinced that it does exist. any thoughts? swim would love some advice, opinions, assurances, ect. any input would be great and would really help him out.

[delphinen]

Well, SWIM has HIGH tolerance to benzos, need to IV/IM Diazepam to feel it, so he takes from 6mg to 12mg per night of Clonazepam to sleep because he doesnt want to shoot him anymore and paint the towels with his own blood, even on intramuscular injections sometimes he hits a vein... thats why he takes Clonazepam, no problems so far... this has been since a month or so.... he may start taking Alprazolam soon if he were you, just to change the benzo and reduce the fear of Clonazepam physical addiction.
It could be very helpful if you could get access to Midazolam to "finish" the night (take some Clonazepam/Alprazolam and the Midazolam when you go to bed to sleep).

[Matt The Funk]

SWIM wouldn't switch the alprazolam...SWIM uses clonazepam as a kind of reducer of going off xanax.

[rocksmokinmachine]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45539

This is the withdrawal schedule I made for slow withdrawal from various benzodiazepines, at the moment it contains, diazepam (Valium), temazepam (Restoril), nitrazepam (Mogadon), chlorodiazepoxide (Librium), and high dose alprazolam (Xanax).

If SWIY wishes I can add a slow withdrawal shedule for clonazepam?

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by JaWill88

swim is getting a little more worried each day as time goes on. now that he thinks about it he is using them almost every day. mostly clonazepam but sometimes lorazepam or alprazolam. swim probably uses them 5 to 6 days a week now. his use has increased a bit. he used to be able to take 1.0mg of clonazepam and he would feel pretty damn good. then 1.5mg was what it would take after a while. at this moment it's 2.0mg clonazpam. swim is wondering if he should do a quick taper. if swim has a dependcy (physically that is) it is pretty minor but swim is now pretty damn convinced that it does exist. any thoughts? swim would love some advice, opinions, assurances, ect. any input would be great and would really help him out.

Sounds like SWIY needs help, I'll post a slow withdrawal schedule. Be prepared to switch to diazepam (Valium) at some point, is it accessible to SWIY? Do not be fooled, benzodiazepine withdrawal can be lethal. Look at the link on my post above and give a time scale of when SWIY would like it done.

[JaWill88]

does swiy think it necessary to switch to diazepam? aren't they about the same life? swim was assuming that was the point of going from others to diazepam because it has a long half life but swim doesn't know too much. anyway swim is taking 2mg a day pretty much and if possible a taper schedule would be nice.

[Jatelka]

The advantage of converting to diazepam is that it comes in much smaller dosage pills than clonazepam (and also a liquid form of 1mg/ml) which allows for much more accurate dosing at the lower end of the scale.

This allows a more gradual taper, with smaller increments than is possible with clonazepam.

Eg: The smallest Clonazepam available is 0.125mg (equivalent to 2.5mg diazepam)

Converting to diazepam allows you to accurately measure much lower equivalent doses of benzodiazepine

[JaWill88]

thanks very much for everyones help. sooo much appreciated. swim is almost certain that he will have a full dependency now because of the fact that this is his 5th or 6th day of Suboxone (buprenorphine) and uses clonazepam for withdrawals. swim has a doctor appointment for this friday and swim knows his doctor will prescribe him plenty to aid in this. and from what swim has experienced in trying to get off buprenorphine is the withdrawals last a really, really long time. swim thinks it's because it has such a long half life, longer than methadones. is that correct? last time swim tried to get off he didn't even peak in withdrawal till about 16 days off and then gave in and started taking it again. however this time swim is extremely determined to rid himself of this shit and is going to do it no matter what. swims doc will probably give him a script to take it every day for like a month. being that swim has been taking it almost every day for a while and now will be taking it for like a month straight he is almost sure there will be a true physical dependcy. that scares him but knows he isn't too far into it. it's not like he's been taking like 6mg a day for a year or something but still is sure there will be dependeny. so anyways swim is definately prepared to taper with diazepam although swim's doctor probably doesn't think swim has a dependcy as he is prescribed to take it about 2 to 3 times a week but really finds ways to take it much more than that. so swim really isn't quite sure what to do at the moment. swim may have to get the diazepam off the street or go to another doctor as this docter really trusts swim and swim has abused it and feels aweful about it and doesn't think he could confess to him. any advice appreciated. and no, swim doesn't mean looking for sources or anything stupid like that. btw, isn't 2.5mg the smallest diazepam tablets available? swim will try and find the liquid though. swim will look at the equivelancy of the dose he is taking of clonazepam to diazepam (swim is thinking somewhere around 40mg diazepam?) and try and taper after he gets off this stupid buprenorphine shit. he hates it. swim is just thinking about going to another doctor. is that a good idea? and once again, thanks for everyones help.

[Lehendakari]

SWIM takes clonazepam almost every week, never two days in a row and never more than 1mg. He's taken on some ocassions everyday for a week clonazepam alternating with alprazolam (never more than 1 mg of either) and found some withdrawal, mild, not physical, mostly anxiety upon stopping.

Clonazepam is SWIM's favorite benzo he thinks it's pretty safe as long as you don't increase your dose.

If you feel a dose is not working like the first dose ie. you are building tolerance, take a break but don't increase the dose. It works for SWIM.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by JaWill88

, isn't 2.5mg the smallest diazepam tablets available? swim will try and find the liquid though. swim will look at the equivelancy of the dose he is taking of clonazepam to diazepam (swim is thinking somewhere around 40mg diazepam?) and try and taper after he gets off this stupid buprenorphine shit. he hates it. swim is just thinking about going to another doctor. is that a good idea? and once again, thanks for everyones help.

SWIY should will probably find the switch uncomfatable from clonazepam to diazepam. The withdrawal schedule will be posted as I am busy with work at the minute. The smallest dose of diazepam is 2mg in tablet form. 2.5mg tablets don't exist. The liquid can be dosed even smaller. Is SWIY obtaining his benzodiazepines illegally or from a physician. I am little confused by SWIY's post about Subuxone also...

[JaWill88]

swim is obtaining them legally from swims doctor. swim is withdrawing from suboxone right now and swims doctor is going to prescribe him even more clonazepam than usual since in withdrawal. so swim is saying he is pretty damn sure he has a physical dependcy now, but will DEFINATELY have one by the end of the month, no doubt about that. swim just doesn't want to tell his doctor he has been taking clonazepam almost every day. btw swim doesn't get enough to take it every single day from his doctor so he often gets them from swimom or swifriend or whatever so thats how he manages to take them pretty much all the time. so swims not quite sure wether to taper off clonazepam so his doctor doesn't know, get diazepam on the street, go to another doctor, or just confess to swims current prescribing doctor. swim will just have to go with what he thinks is best to do. once again thanks for all the input.

[ironmics]

Originally Posted by JaWill88

yeah good point. but even if it's only 100 hours it still seems kind of scary to swim. btw it's more like swim uses it 3-4 times a week. is this cutting it a little close? swim has had a bad physical dependency on heroin (diacetylmorphine) for a long time and that alone was aweful. now swim is on suboxone (buprenorphine) and is physically dependent on that. the last thing swim needs is a physical dependency on benzodiazepines as he has much knowledge of what happens without them, and it's not pretty. also sometimes swim binges for like a week and then goes back to taking it 3-4 times a week. do swiys still think hes cutting it close or is he safe. he has been doing this for a few months now and wonders if he will have some kind of symptoms if he doesn't have them for a while. the only thing swim notices is that if he doesn't take any for like 5 or 6 days he gets pretty bad anxiety for no reason at all. is this a warning, is swim very mildly dependent or is he comepletely safe and good to go?

If you're only taking it 3-4 times a week and not having any adverse effects between dosing, then you should be relatively fine. Just don't quit cold turkey, be sure to taper off them. I've been having a lot of luck lately with Gabapentin and anxiety, it seems a tolerence forms for it fast, like 3 or 4 days, but also fades in the same amount of time not taking it.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by JaWill88

.btw swim doesn't get enough to take it every single day from his doctor so he often gets them from swimom or swifriend or whatever so thats how he manages to take them pretty much all the time. so swims not quite sure wether to taper off clonazepam so his doctor doesn't know, get diazepam on the street, go to another doctor, or just confess to swims current prescribing doctor. swim will just have to go with what he thinks is best to do. once again thanks for all the input.

SWIY's post really doesn't make much sense. Clonazepam is prescribed daily. Is SWIY saying his physician prescribes sporadically? Please be more specific. I can help if SWIY really wants to stop, I can add to the thread I made on withdrawing from benzo's. Please state SWIY's current daily dose.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=45539 Take a look at this thread please. I can make something similar for clonazepam.

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine

SWIY's post really doesn't make much sense. Clonazepam is prescribed daily. Is SWIY saying his physician prescribes sporadically? Please be more specific. I can help if SWIY really wants to stop, I can add to the thread I made on withdrawing from benzo's. Please state SWIY's current daily dose.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=45539 Take a look at this thread please. I can make something similar for clonazepam.

SWIM finds peak anxiety performance to be after taking it daily, but using it every other day or maybe throwing in an extra day of not using it can provide great anxiety relief when its really needed, instead of just upping the dose.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by Matt The Funk

SWIM finds peak anxiety performance to be after taking it daily, but using it every other day or maybe throwing in an extra day of not using it can provide great anxiety relief when its really needed, instead of just upping the dose.

Sporadic use of benzdiazepines can make the problem worse. Especially with benzo's such as diazepam and clonazepam which have a long half life in the body anyway.

Starting at a dose daily dose where one feels comfortable and then tapering it slowly from there is by far the best way. For people who have a real physical addiction, skipping doses is not is not an option.

[olechka]

SWIM has talked to several doctors in three countries about clonazepam addiction and it seems they all have too different points, for some of them clonazepam was something terrible that you should never try, for others it was something as normal as aspirin and they prescribed it to everybody for any reason. SWIM searched a lot on the internet as well but yet has no clear answer for his question. SWIM had two years struggling with very bad anxiety, was on Paxil, went over withdrawal but now just needs sometimes to take 0.25 mg of clonazepam for insomnia wich happens like 1-2 times a week not every week, sometimes just ones or twice a month. Can swim get addictive with that? One doctor said its safe just if taking no more than once in two weeks.

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine

Sporadic use of benzdiazepines can make the problem worse. Especially with benzo's such as diazepam and clonazepam which have a long half life in the body anyway.

Starting at a dose daily dose where one feels comfortable and then tapering it slowly from there is by far the best way. For people who have a real physical addiction, skipping doses is not is not an option.

I was saying if you don't want to get physically addicted....if you're already addicted use the ashton manual to taper.

[JaWill88]

to this day swims use of benzodiazepines is not sporadic, but pretty much every day use, as swim already mentioned. but swims doctor has prescribed them to be used sporadically, or in other words a few times a week (maybe 3 or 4). swim is pretty damn sure he has physical dependcy now but what swim really wants to know is what is the most time one could go in between doses but end up being physically dependent if done over a long period of time.

[JaWill88]

oh and btw swim is taking about 2mg once a day. but now swim finds himself drinking every time he takes it, or drinking at night if it was taken early in the day to help him sleep better. swim has been doing that for a week or two now because 2mg doesn't do anything without it. oh yeah and swim has a diacetylmorphine dependence to .25 of a gram (250mg) (black tar) at least 3x a day, once in morning, afternoon, and evening to go to bed. sometimes 4 times a day if he is lucky and swimom will give him another dose. swim is starting to think he has too many dependcys now to do it all on his own now that he really takes a good look at it. it could be kind of hard. he knows he has at least two, clonazepam and diacetylmorphine. the third could possible be alcohol but swim doesn't know how long that takes to form physical dependency. oh yeah and swim dips tobacco (grizzly wintergreen, the kind of tobacco one puts between cheek and gums, not the shit people chew on) but that doesn't really matter in this thread. but swims been doing that about 3 years now (smokes cigarettes daily for a couple years before dipping which btw is FUCKING DISGUSTING, swim will never smoke another cigarette again in his life it's just fucking gross). swim ate 5.5mg clonazepam yesterday along with his regular 3 times a day .25 of gram heroin shots and didn't feel the need to drink but today swim has had no benzodiazepines so in the last hour or so swim drank about a bottle and a half of wine along with his three shots a day of heroin. now swim is starting to think maybe he should go to detox instead of do this on his own? he forgot to even mention the heroin dependency but that doesn't kill when one doesn't have it, it just really, really, sucks. but swim doesn't have to worry about not having heroin he buys in pretty large quantity. but as swim said, maybe swim should go to a real detox, not do it on his own? swim is starting to think that now that he realizes how many dependencies he has. and swim has to start his brand new job later on this coming week and really, really wants to keep this job as it ain't no working at fucking mcdonalds (no offense to people working fast food and stuff, swim has been there MANY times) but has a real career ahead of him with VERY good pay and all benefits. what do other swiys think? any opinions? oh and as swim mentioned before, he would really like to know whats the most amount of time one could go between doses of clonazepam and still have a physical dependency? any input would be great, thanks. oh yeah one other thing, are benzodiazepines cross tolerant? do they hit the same part of the brain (GABA). so could one have a dependency on one and switch to the other and not have withdrawal symptoms? once again any input would be more than just appreciated as swim has realized he might have gotten himself into some trouble. thanks.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by Matt The Funk

I was saying if you don't want to get physically addicted....if you're already addicted use the ashton manual to taper.

I still don't get your point, anyhow;

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...rawal+schedule

Physical addiction: Which is why I made this, this thread contains slow withdrawal schedules for all the common benzodiazepines such as diazepam (Valium), temazepam (Restroil), nitrazepam (Mogadon), alprazolam (Xanax), clonazepam (Klonopin). He is working on oxazepam (Serax) and lorazepam (Ativan) at the moment. These will be posted shortly.

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine

I still don't get your point, anyhow;

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...rawal+schedule

Physical addiction: Which is why I made this, this thread contains slow withdrawal schedules for all the common benzodiazepines such as diazepam (Valium), temazepam (Restroil), nitrazepam (Mogadon), alprazolam (Xanax), clonazepam (Klonopin). He is working on oxazepam (Serax) and lorazepam (Ativan) at the moment. These will be posted shortly.

SWIM has and probably still is physically dependent on clonazepam(klonopin), he takes it probably 6 times a week, but keeps the dosage low 1-3mg...and occasionally does a small taper himself using smaller doses of clonazepam pills he still has. He never goes off them for longer than 2 days though. He has gotten sick from not taking them, but normally it's after a decent sized opiate binge since he binges on benzo's with his opiates. Anyways my point was just some advice on not getting addicted. Using occasionally for when anxiety is the best way. SWIM doesn't care how bad your anxiety is (SWIMS is VERY BAD, causing a lot of physical pain and pretty bad insomnia, also the fact that he has PTSD from certain situations involving guns to his head), he does try to keep his use at low doses because it is physically addicting for him, but not mentally. Alprazolam was mentally addicting for SWIM because he started using it more and more. Anyways sorry for the long rants SWIM is feeling overly energized(new medication). Just trying to give advice, keep the use to when its REALLY needed. Even if your having a panic attack think about if you really need it for this one.