Opinions - Best Prescription-Free Sleeping Aid

[wearestardust]

SWIWAS has never yet found an OTC preparation that actually works. The closest thing was probably Phenergan (promethazine) 25mg, which he is prescribed for hay fever, but at night 50mg acts as a bit of a sedative; the poster who said that antihistamines lose this effect very quickly is quite correct. If you need to sleep, then there's no alternative to a prescription. SWIWAS rotates two meds, flunitrazepam 2mg and midazolam 15mg, in order to prevent building a tolerance. Also, it is best to keep at least two nights per wek med-free. If you happen to live in a country where flunitrazepam is no longer available (I think I am right in saying that one is the USA) then a viable alternative is 10mg nitrazepam or 30mg temazepam. But unfortunately these do not help insomnia which is anxiety-related nearly so much as the favourite, flunitrazepam (Hypnodorm, Rohypnol, etc.) It also helps SWIM by removing the need for a morning dose of my anxiolytic, since it seems to have a carry-over effect unlike any of the others. 'Z' drugs are IMHO a waste of time. Zolpidem in particular has so many undesirable side-effects and also loses all effectiveness after a week's use.

[Nicaine]

P.S. the most effective sleep aid has to be sleep deprivation, seriously... the only trouble is it's unpredictable (one is prone to falling asleep mid-morning or afternoon). Benzos can help a little, but they can sometimes make things worse too. Taurine can be somewhat helpful as well. Maybe the best non-prescription aid is a combination of several things like 5-HTP, Taurine, L-Theanine, Valerian, passionflower, a small dose of a benzo, etc. Take a look at what the herbal combo tablets designed as sleep aids use.

Edit -- diphenhydramine works well for some too, but seems to have a narrow dosage + window of time in which it's effective. If you don't fall asleep within an hour or so after taking it, you probably won't.

[Tropical]

Swim suffers from insomnia too. Constant insomnia from as far back as he can remember, 37 years ago when he was 5 years old.

A couple years ago he spoke with a two physicians in the family. They both advised that he try to avoid prescription sleep aids. They wouldn't recommend weed (they get stoned recreationally though and say its safer long term than the legal alternative hypnotics). They said to try to get by with just lifestyle changes, like trying to go to bed at the same time every night, avoid caffeine, etc. Swim tried all of that and they work if he eats a quarter gram of weed baked into a cookie two hours before bedtime. It works like a charm every time. For the past two years, swim has gotten the best sleep of his life.

[geophagus]

SWIM stumbled across that same site about 4 or 5 years ago, and it scared the bejesus out of him. You see, SWIM had taken so many different prescription sleeping pills over the years, and after reading the information at that site SWIM felt that he had to find out more about the claims that the Dr was making.

To SWIM's surprise, the Dr who wrote that book had been involved in some published research concerning the issue of increased mortality rates associated with sleep duration & insomnia. Here's a quote from one of those articles discussing the results of a study done in 1982:

"'Participants were more than 1.1 million men and women from 30 to 102 years of age. The best survival was found among those who slept 7 hours per night. Participants who reported sleeping 8 hours or more experienced significantly increased mortality hazard, as did those who slept 6 hours or less. The increased risk exceeded 15% for those reporting more than 8.5 hours sleep or less than 3.5 or 4.5 hours. In contrast, reports of "insomnia" were not associated with excess mortality hazard.'"
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...tract/59/2/131

SWIM has become very interested in learning more about this subject since stumbling across that Dr's claims several years ago, and SWIM is hopeful that something more conclusive concerning the causality will be forthcoming.

The articles SWIM read that related to this issue certainly gave SWIM much to think about concerning his old habit of sleeping 12 hours or so a night (when the opportunity presented itself) like he so often did in his younger days.

SWIM never struggled with sleeping per se, however SWIM did/does struggle with the act of falling asleep.

[jduba]

over the counter i would say tylenol pm and start working out during
the day. not sure if you already are but i know if ii have a nice long
hard work out and a couple of pm's im out cold. for non-otc i would
suggest seroquil not really a downer but slows down your thought so
much that it knocks you ass out. good luck and let us know what works.

[carloshidalgo61]

I said this somewhere else already, sorry. I ain't ever gonna get 100 posts cause I don't know 10 percent of you other people's knowledge. So this is just to help anyone wandering thru postings. Melatonin is reactive to light. Take it then bed down in a dark-ass room. I guarantee when it is time to wake up, you won't want to. Pretty good results for me, but I just hated getting up after it.

[Handle]

Sorry, I must just add to this for people living in countries that have the stuff. There is a particular brand of dihydrocodeine cough syrup that contains NO OTHER active ingredient. So for all you out there who are used to the side effects of DXM syrup, the sorbitol, all that, and want an opiate buzz, I say, there you have it. It is not inactive as an analgesic/euphoriant, it is not just for cough, don't let people tell you otherwise. In some countries like thailand it is available as a pure pill for pain, much like hydrocodone. It's not as weak as you might think either. Anecdotally and on many sources it is said [and I believe rightly] to be about 1.5 times STRONGER than codeine not weaker. SWIM also told me it's very good for desperate people who are in withdrawal and have absolutely nothing better to help. This is a fact. It is not bad stuff. [I do believe though, that Americans can't get it, so, sorry about that]

[highganja99]

Benadryl is a good OTC sleep-aid. sounds strange but the original pink packets of benadryl contain diphenhydramine the same drug used in the OTC sleep-aid Nytol in the uk, Nytol comes in 25mg and 50mg strengths, most people will need to use 50mg to gain sufficient sedation. I have tried Valerian Capsules, Apart from the smell and taste if you don't swallow em down as fast as possible they do seem quite effective, in both cases about 30(60 For Valerian?) minutes after you have taken them you should be lying in bed in the dark and trying to get comfortable for sleep (not using too much energy) you will eventually drift off to sleep. try not to get too agitated about it all. relax, that's the best way to get a good night's sleep even if you are not taking anything to help.

[ConcertaXL]

Promethazine is a quality sleep aid available OTC in england and most of europe (france and switzerland for certain), australia (S3) and many other countries, Not in us though. A warning: don't ever use tylenol/excedrin PM or NyQuil in large doses to sleep. I am sure everyone on these forums understands about APAP toxicity and it is best to not use any APAP containing products in order to aid sleep when pure products are so easily available OTC just about everywhere.

[lulz]

High EPA omega 3 fish oils work well for my friend, but he may just have odd brain chemistry.

[v12v]

SWIM wants to know if there are strong OTC sleeping pill. SWIM already tried few unisom pills and it did not do much at all. Is there OTC sleeping pill that can knock SWIY out?

thx

[doingdadope]

There are a few antihistamines that could knock swiy out but it depends on how bad swiys insomnia is. Doxylamine succinate would be worth looking into as its much stronger the diphendramine and OTC. But its also a derialnt antihistamine so be careful. meletonin could help swiy get into a good sleep pattern but wont knock swiy out. But might be worth checking out.

[caltrain208]

Although SWIM has never tried either, he hears Valerian and Kanna can help someone fall asleep. Both are available from health food stores. Kava Kava may also be useful, although it didn't do much for SWIM (perhaps too low a dose). If SWIY is of age, alcohol usually does the trick as well.

[Impure157]

My favorite OTC sleep-aid is melatonin by far.
If I just want a little help falling asleep, then I take a single or even half a 3mg tablet.
Melatonin is also nice because sometimes I'll take up to 15-21mg at a time... doesn't make you very tired, more a calm relaxed but the dreams that usually come when you go to sleep are the real reason to take so much, it can be an interesting experience to say the least.

[ohFimhungry]

Swim's Cocktail:
100mg diphenhydramine (max dosage according to various websites)
3mg Melatonin = VIVID DREAMS. not sure if it helps with sleep, but Swim definitely experiences vivid dreaming, normally Swim never has dreams.

[pierce1234]

anything that blocks the histamine receptors in your frontal cortex will make you pass really nice, like antihistamines..

pierce1234 added 2 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

thats literally the only thing that really works, melatonin is bullshit swim is a nuerobiologist. unless you get prescriptions that block more powerful receptors in your brain like benzos or dopamine blockers, which will definitely make u crash insta, antihistamines like benadryl are the best you can do. O and by the way, sleeping pills are the same thing, even if it is a different chemical, they all just block histamine receptors, interesting huh?

pierce1234 added 1 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

melatonin works on chemicals in your circadian rhythm, but most likely if you take that shit you just go poopy and it comes right out, hard to pass the bbb from what studies i have read

[Raindrop]

I recently have had a lot of major changes in my life, and found myself having trouble sleeping. Having used sleep aids before with no problem, I bought a box of a brand name that was basically Diphenhydramine. Worked well in that it did put me to sleep even when I was feeling hyper and my mind was just goin. BUT, by the third night I took it, the nightmares arrived. And I'd get them every night. It actually took me awhile to realize the nightmares were coming from the sleeping pills. But over time, a few months I'd say, I realized that on the days I took the pills, I had nightmares, versus the times I didn't take the pills I had no nightmares. And when I say nightmares, boy do I mean it. The WORST nightmares I have ever had in my life. It is like the diphenhydramine finds your greatest fears and goes ahead and fashions a good nightmare scenario with them. And not just one nightmare, no. I'd wake up a good 7 times throughout the night, just to fall back asleep and dream a whole new nightmare subject. So by the time morning came, I had lived 7 different mental hells from these nightmares. And they were so real feeling, and still to this day (it's been about 5 months since then) I can remember all the dreams vividly.

One day I was talking to my mom on the phone, and mentioned how when I take the sleeping pills with diphenhydramine I get horrible nightmares, and she said to me so does she! She told me to never take it, and to take sleeping aids with doxylamine instead (which is what is in Nyquil). I think these drugs all affect people differently. Diphenhydramine is definitely not for me that's all I know!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Interesting experience, thanks for sharing.

[El Calico Loco]

Take a walk through the deliriant antihistamines forum and you'll see many people describing their diphenhydramine trips as nightmarish. Perhaps it's the way it makes one so stoned and heavy; is similar to the feeling of slowness, inability to escape, that one sometimes gets in nightmares. And it's just crazy.

It doesn't happen to Cally, but she rarely remembers her dreams anyway.


ECL

[Knowledgeismydrugofchoice]

SWIM is a pretty hardcore insomniac as are both of his parents (maybe it's genetic). Recently SWIM has been trying to get away from relying on pharmaceuticals to induce sleep and has developed an interesting approach to sleep.

The way SWIM sees it, in his pseudo-scientific opinion, there are at least three elements to a good night's sleep: 1) falling asleep; 2) staying asleep; 3) getting deep, quality sleep. Because SWIM has never found one OTC sleep aid that really works on both, he decided to find things to adress each of these three elements. To induce drowsiness, SWIM uses 100mgs of diphenhydramine. To help stay asleep and promote a healthy sleep cycle he takes 20mgs of melatonin. To geet good deep sleep he takes 2000mgs Valerian Root. SWIM also recently started drinking a big cup of Celestial Seasonings's caffeine free Sleepytime tea. It has helped SWIM go from 3-4 hours of shitty sleep to 8 hours of very high quality deep sleep. SWIM sometimes struggles to get out of bed because sleep feels so darn good.

Of course, one also needs to be proactive and, if good sleep is important to SWIY, think about making simple lifestyle changes. SWIM has gone from a pot of coffee a day down to to big cups of chai tea, which has only 50% the caffeine of a similar amount of coffee, generally. Exercise will also go a very long way in helping one sleep. Finally, one needs to "set the mood" to help sleep -- that may be some soothing tunes, pitch darkness, or a slightly interesting movie/television (SWIM likes to watch a documentary, though SWIM is always mad that he doesn't finish it!). That said, this is only what works for SWIM, the needs of each individual is highly variable!

Knowledgeismydrugofchoice added 3 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

In response to the SWIlightning, SWIM completely agrees about seroquel. That stuff is the devil. SWIM once took 75mgs and promptly proceeded to black out for the next 15 hours and felt "off" for another 24 hours or so after that. Also, SWIM's wife was proscribed Seroquel for about 18 months and in that time gained about 30 pounds!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Interesting (and refreshing) approach: Pills are not necessarily the answer!

[Enzo_Guy]

SWIM has terrible sleeping problems, he has been prescribed such pills as ambien but had bad side effects from them. He finds that when staying with his parents over a holiday, the best OTC pills he can take are acetaminophen with benadryl (tylenol pm) since SWIM can't smoke weed around his parents. However, SWIM very much prefers smoking weed to sleep, he often voices his opinion that medical marijuana should be available for insomniacs as it is very effective (even small amounts are enough to relax his overactive mind to the point that he can fall asleep).

[Wired350z]

For a legal sleepy time, Swim likes to stack a 1000mg Tryptophan, 2 10mg? melatonin and a 5htp before bed. Turn the lights out and get comfy and you'll be in la la land relatively quick, with no real hangover. Also those OTC pills SleepMD do pretty well, just pricey in swims opinion.

Also a word on the Tylenol PM/Unisom stuff, Swim has always noticed using stuff with diphendydrinate seems to give him a mentally retarded feeling of a hangover in the morning, along with dry mouth and being just "not there" most of the following day.

[Toksha]

Tylenol PM should be avoided. The acetaminophen will cause liver and kidney damage. And the brand-name will cont you a fortune. Look for generic allergy-pill that contain only diphenhydramine. And drug-store has these. They cost very little - and they work fine.

[BobTheGreat]

DXM is otc because there is no good alternative. For years it has been expected that it will be pulled when a replacement comes out. Nothing has come yet. At recreational doses it is toxic but not theroputic doses which is why it is otc. It also doesnt have a side effect of sleepiness that comes from antihestimenes put in cough syrups. If swiy is really interested, there is an entire subforum for dxm with all the info swiy could want on it.