Drug info - Basic Kratom Q & A

[gib]

SWIM is interested in trying kratom. Can anyone tell SWIM anything about it?

Specifically, SWIM is wondering what dosage to take. He is not interested in the standard dry leaves - he will try an extract. So he wants to know: how much of what concentration of extract will get him how high?

[dwilkes7]

That is a very tough question to answer due to the fact that potencies of Kratom leaf is highly variable. Swim have been taking Kratom for years and only buy the powder. Swim has to experiment with dosages every time he gets a new batch. Suggestion, use a small amount at first(make sure to write it down). In small doses, Swiy should feel stimulated. If swiy is looking for the light relaxing euphoric effect, keep increasing the dose incrementally until swiy likes the effect. Caution, too large of a dose to start with can make swiy very nauseaus and can be very uncomfortable.

[Bajeda]

Here are some threads that should help swiy:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24665
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9451
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22277

There are more in the Kratom forum that could be helpful.


What you really need to look at though, is the Drugs-Forum article on Kratom, home-made and easily accessible through the main DF page. That should cover all the basic information you need, and then you can check the Kratom forums for more specific questions you may have.

Here is the link ----> http://www.drugs-forum.com/kratom.html

[dwilkes7]

Thanks Bajeda, I'm relitively new here and your links to those threads help out with MY education here too.

[gib]

Thanks for the info

[donpedro]

SWIM has recently found a certain vendor to be selling "30x" extract? Would something like that be bogus? Has anyone tried it, and if so, what was your dose?

[Bajeda]

Most Kratom extracts aren't much stronger than regular leaf, if at all. The plant just doesn't really lend itself towards extraction.

We can't discuss specific sources here, but if the vendor is supposedly selling '30x' you could probably expect it to be much much lower, and very likely not worth the money, unless there is some new advanced extraction technique out that no one has heard about.

[Br00klynB0y87]

Originally Posted by gib

SWIM is interested in trying kratom. Can anyone tell SWIM anything about it?

Specifically, SWIM is wondering what dosage to take. He is not interested in the standard dry leaves - he will try an extract. So he wants to know: how much of what concentration of extract will get him how high?

In swims opinion thee extracts should be left alone unless your talking about a resin extract. The (powdered) 5X, 10X, 20X+ are a waste of money and does not provide a full rounded Kratom experience.

Instead...

Swiy should look into premium quality powders (ex. Bali, Thai). Though swims recently gotten into ordering the whole/crushed leaf and brewing a batch of tea. Thee advantages of this are 1. your paying much less; for example you can get 4oz of crushed bali Kratom for as cheap as for $xx dollars, and in general the crushed leaf is almost always cheaper than then the powder. Two, you don't have to down all that powder and trust me when a little tolerance builds up; 13grams of powder is alot to take. Also when brewing your own tea, you can boil it down to as little as shot glass before it turns into resin making it easier to take. Lastly in swims opinion brewing your own tea from the leaves has a much stronger effect than preparing a tea with the powder.

As far as dosage it's gonna take some trial and error till swiy find his ideal Kratom dose since every individual is different. However it's advisable to start w/ 5-6grams and see how swiys feel. Depending on how swiy feels he can add or lessen thee amount for next time. peace.

__________________________________________________ ______________________
"I believe in a long, prolonged, derangement of the senses in order to obtain the unknown."
-- Jim Morrison

[dwilkes7]

Gib,

Swims personal experience and opinion, swim usually stays away from liquid extracts and most extracts in general. Powdered Thai or Bali seem better than any other preparation swim has tried.

When you consider the fact that Mitragynine is the main alkaloid in the leaf, there are 25 or more other alkaloids found in the raw product. Swims experience with chemistry tells him that there is a likely chance that some of those alkyloids are not fully soluable in just one liquid (water, alcohol, etc..). Also the price comparison as opposed to just good powder is almost never favorable. Others may have had different experiences though, we all react differently because of various bodily function variables.

[oxyaddict05]

SWIM just got my first 100 grams of Kratom! It says on the lable, : "Kratom incense. Please note- this product is not intended for human consumption." Is that just an insurance thing to cover the vendor's ass?? This is the real deal right? Also how does SWIM measure it out?? there is nothing that indicates volume per gram. My little lab rat has been itching to try it. SWIM just got out of a 4 month rehab for OxyContin so SWIM have been craving! Thanks

[allyourbase]

depends on the vendor. SWIM once bought a bunch of "kratom incense" from a cheap dealer.....when it showed up it really WAS incense. it looked like dragon's blood sap. needless to say the stuff was useless.

[oxyaddict05]

This stuff has a faint sweet minty earthy smell. It tastes bitter and a little minty. It is slightly green and looks like powdered tea. Does that sound like the real stuff?

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by oxyaddict05

SWIM just got my first 100 grams of Kratom! It says on the lable, : "Kratom incense. Please note- this product is not intended for human consumption." Is that just an insurance thing to cover the vendor's ass?? This is the real deal right? Also how does SWIM measure it out?? there is nothing that indicates volume per gram. My little lab rat has been itching to try it. SWIM just got out of a 4 month rehab for OxyContin so SWIM have been craving! Thanks

SWIM has also got kratom with a similar label and it was kratom. The 'incense' label may well be a legal precaution. As kratom is a plant, the percentage of the relevant alkaloids (and no-one really knows which they are even) varies. Try 5 grammes and work up to 8 or so if needed.

[oxyaddict05]

Damn this stuff rocks!!! SWIM just took 9grams of Thai Kratom for the first time! very similar to 20mg hyrdocodone! awsome.

[tayo]

wow, 9grams =20mg hydro for swiy.... swim boils about 50 grams to nodddd, but 10 grams seems a little stimulating for swim, the higher the dose the more side effects unfortunately, this is 4 weeks after a detox... but yes if would compare to any opiate it would be hydrocodone

[oxyaddict05]

SWIM have been off opiates for 5 months now so SWIM has no tollerance. Also, it was Thai powdered Kratom. Probably fairly potent.

[tayo]

yeah swim has bali crushed leaf, which is at least equivalent if not more potent than thai, according to polls on this site and others

[geophagus]

Originally Posted by tayo

yeah swim has bali crushed leaf, which is at least equivalent if not more potent than thai, according to polls on this site and others

That's interesting. SWIM has not tried the Bali yet due to him being a such a newbie when it comes to kratom (SWIM has about 3 weeks or so experience with it at this point), and since SWIM has been suceptable to the vendors clever marketing. However, from what SWIM has read, he was under the impression that most people tended to choose the Bali kratom due to its affordability rather than it's potency over the Thai kratom.

Thus far SWIM has tried the 15X powdered extract, the PNG 20X powdered extract, and most recently a 50/50 mixture of Thai green vein whole leaf powder combined with Thai red vein powder that was de-stemmed and de-veined.

At this point SWIM has been very impressed with the quality and the price of the Thai that he got in the mail this week. However, SWIM is very intrigued and curious about the Bali kratom due to it's affordablity and appearant popularity.

Due to the fact that SWIM does not have access to the sources forum here, or have any friends who have personal experience with kratom, SWIM has been left to try vendors just based on dumb luck. SWIM has been pleased with what he has experienced thus far from the kratom products he has tried, but SWIM feels like he has been ripped off when he considers how much he has payed for so little product.

Anyhoot, I'm sorry to ramble on and on here. The point of my post was to ask if SWIY personally tried the Thai vs the Bali kratom, or if SWIY was just saying that the polls indicate that the Bali is equal or more potent than the Thai kratom?

[tayo]

swim has tried powdered thai, and crushed leaf bali... powdered just wasnt so good but that was just once, and as far as affordability swim thinks they are about the same.. but yeah some vendors, who knows where it's coming from right... if one thing is for sure, it definitely is always better to buy in bulk rather than small amounts when swiy has found a vendor he/she trusts. that goes for pretty much every substance though.

[Br00klynB0y87]

People, people.. The differences between the Kratom strains are as follows-

The Bali/Commercial = Is ofcourse less expensive compared to the Thai however they also differ as far the experience/purpose in concerned.

From swims own experience, the Thai (red, green and white vein) especially the Red-vein produce much more of an energetic experience, more stimulating - whereas the Bali is more tends to be much more sedating.

Indo/Indonesian in my experience is very much similar to Bali in overall affect but much a cleaner experience and far more potent gram per gram.

A premium Thai and/or Malaysian would have to be my monkeys favorite, Indo too. -All in all, my monkey doesn't mind Bali either (swIms like them all!) when it comes down to it the main important factor that swIms looks for is that it is premium quality.

Swim would suggest every1 to stay away from the extracts such as the 10X, 15X and so on. In his personal experience they lack alot of the essentials and do not provide a kratom user with a FULL rounded kratom experience. It's just a waste of swiys money.

Also below is taken from a site in which I thought would be useful, however I didn't paste the site link since it's a link to vendors as well which I am aware is not allowed at least not to be posted in this section..here-

Originally Posted by ;

• Bali Kratom Leaf (Mitragyna speciosa): This strain of Kratom leaf is by far the most popular form of Kratom Leaf, and used to produce 90% of all the Kratom Extracts on the market today.
• 
  Bali Kratom Leaf effects are reported to be, a low to moderate dose will usually (but not always) be stimulating, while a high dose of Bali Kratom leaf almost always quite sedating. This is apparently because the active alkaloids of Kratom Leaf have both stimulant and sedative effects. Which predominates probably depends both on blood level and individual differences between users
• Thai Kratom Leaf (Mitragyna speciosa): Thai Kratom Leaf has recently come onto the seen in 2006. Thai Kratom Leaf effects tend to be less euphoric then that of the Bali Kratom Leaf, however Thai Kratom Leaf effects are said to be more energizing. Therefore depending on your preferred reason for using Kratom there is a Kratom Leaf for you!
  Thai Kratom Leaf is mostly used as a stimulant by Thai peasants, laborers, and farmers to overcome the burdens of hard work. Thai natives chewed the Kratom leaves to make them work harder and feel good. Kratom Leaf was also used in Southeast Asia and by Thai natives as an opium substitute.
  
• Malaysian Kratom Leaf (Mitragyna speciosa): In mid 2006 Malaysian Kratom leaf has started to trickle into the market from illegal exporters in Malaysia in small quantities.

[geophagus]

SWIM finally recieved some Bali kratom today, after a bizarre two day delay with the delivery, and SWIM is amazed at the quality of this kratom. SWIM had been reluctant to try the Bali since the extracts SWIM had been trying were so satisfying to him, but SWIM is very glad he tried the Bali now.

The Bali is about 50% or less the cost of the last extract SWIM tried, and it is as almost as potent, if not equal in potency. SWIM is very pleased, and SWIM is very greatful to the members here at the DF who reported their preference for the Bali kratom. That carried a lot of weight in SWIM making the decision to go ahead and try the Bali.

SWIM feels like he has found what he was looking for.

[bunnicula]

SWIM has never been more faded than the first time she tried Kratom. She and her fiance made tea from dried leaf, boiled and re-boiled and boiled down and strained and...you get the picture. Well, she didn't have much faith that some lame tea could have much of an effect on her so she downed a rather large amount (she didn't tell anyone the exact dose).

Within three minutes she had the equivalent physical feeling of an outrageous opiate high; all in the body, little in the head. She was cooking dinner for company at the time and she had to sit down. Within minutes, she was lying on the couch with the most horrendous nausea and an inability to talk/think straight or walk at all. But after half and hour or so her finace helped her to the bathroom where she puked more than ever. More than EVER.

SWIM is remarkably good at maintaining her composure through the most powerful trips. Not this time. Company came, she couldn't eat a bite, she couldn't get off the couch, she was puking every 15 minutes or so. Wasn't the best hostess that night, but there was no way around it.

But underneath the nausea and incapacitation was the most incredible, warm opiate high she'd ever experienced. She just wanted to close her eyes and sink into the couch (but when she closed her eyes she just felt too ill). Most powerful physical impact a drug has ever had on SWIM.

Needless to say, SWIM hasn't taken that much since. At lower doses, however, she loves kratom, especially when she can't get her hands on any opiates. She finds the feeling quite similar. She's definitely noticed differences between extract, powder, and leaves; economically, dried leaves are best (but more labor-intensive). Swim finds powder makes her more irritable and nauseated. Extract is more mellow; she likes to stash some in her purse and she's off!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thanks for sharing your experience
	Great post!

[MzEnthusiastic]

TPIK has taken kratom for a few months, and she found that the Bali is the best. The 15X never did anything for her, and at the price the vendors want for it merely a waste of loot. The red thai (or r/g thai) varieties are also a waste of money per TPIK, and tend to cause her headaches. If TPYK is looking for the energy aspects of kratom. TPIK would recommend Malaysian over Thai.

With Bali TPIK takes about 6-9grams at a time, via the TNW method. Every once in awhile TPIK buys UEI which is an Indo (premium bali) enhanced with 250X *yea, 250X* However TPIK has found if that product is taken 2 days in a row, tolerance builds extremely fast, and she is unable to get similar effects from anything at all. Therfore, TPIK's advice is to use extracts sparingly. TPIK also agrees that a 15x is more like a 3x and just not worth the money. The UEI is definitely worth the money tho, as a special treat.

Oh, and about the incense question, Vendors have to put that, otherwise it will rise question for the FDA and DEA, not that it hasn't already, from what TPIK has read.

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting description...

[dreeamer]

Swim has tried pretty much all varieties of Kratom on the market and in his opinion the best by a mile is the Ultra Enhanced Indo Extract. Although it is probably the most expensive variety available, you only need to take 1g for a strong effect, so it does not work out too expensive. Because of the small amount needed and the fact that it is finely powdered, it is much easier to take, compared to the whole leaf powders which are rather unpleasant to consume unless you encapsulate them. Swim also found that he experienced no nausea with this type of extract as opposed to all the others and the high was by far the best he had experienced. I notice that MzEnthusiastic's TPIK experienced a quick tolerance build up after 1 day of use which is interesting as SWIM tried it 2 days in a row and found the second evenings use at 1g to be nearly as potent, but I guess everyone has different tolerances to the herb. In any case, it is not advised to take Kratom more than once a week so that tolerance build up is avoided.

After trying the Ultra Enhanced Indo Extract, SWIM can honestly say that he will never use any other variety of Kratom ever again, in fact SWIM would go as far as to say that comparing the Ultra Enhanced Indo Extract to other forms of Kratom is like comparing Champagne to vinegar.

[tinytom]

swim recently purchased 10g of Kratom. It is said to be of higher quality but swim is doubtful. your thoughts?

swim is currently running epherdrine and caffiene as a weight loss product and his last dose (30mg,200mg) will be took 4 hours before dosing. will this have a negetive effect?

should he add an extra dose before he drinks the tea to work with the Kratom?

swim also will be dosing that around 3.00am what time would he expect to sleep at is he didnt take any ephedrine or caffiene?

swim plans to make a tea. if anyone requests i can ask swim to take some pics and write a method?
not that difficult anway.

Thanks