physical addiction is pretty lame

[JaWill88]

swim has been on suboxone for 1 year now at the highest dose possible (32mg a day, he does 16mg 2x day) and has aweful withdrawal symtoms after not taken for a few days. anyways swim usually doesn't have to experience it as the life of the drug far exceeds when swim doses so there is always plenty in the body. but maybe like 6 or 7 days ago swim got off and went on a little heroin binge. to keep him well he has to do it at least twice a day but really 3 times a day is most comfortable. anyways yesterday was his last day doing heroin, and his last dose was yesterday morning so he did it only once. swim then took xanax to help sleep. this morning swim was awoken by withdrawal. even when he was still asleep he could feel his legs becoming restless as well as his whole body, he was sweating a ton, and a few other things. swim could feel this in his sleep, and this is what woke him up. when he woke up and was awake for a while, his stomach started to cramp up and didn't feel like eating, he felt aweful all around, but he knew he had the cure, his sub. he took it and within 20 minutes all that shit was GONE. and now swim feels bomb. its like a high in itself just to not have those symptoms. swims thinks maybe endorphins are released just from that alone, not having all those symptoms all of the sudden. anyways swim is definately not new to physical and psycological withdrawal from opioids. swim used heroin consistantly for a few years before getting on suboxone. swims looks back on it and it was quite the rollercoaster of being well/sometimes high, and then having nothing and being sick as hell and wishing he was dead. he can't believe he used to do that, and he did that for years. anyways it was kind of good in a way for swim to feel those symptoms as it reminded him of how bad it was. swim wonders how many swiys right now have some kind of physical opioid addiction at this moment in time? as in they have to use or will go into withdrawal. technically swim has one but never really has to worry being that he always has his suboxone. but if he doesn't.... hes screwed. swim just wonders how many others are in the same boat and this same time? swim knows this has probably been discussed before but if people want to talk about it that would be cool. some things to discuss.. how long have you had this physical part of the addiction? what opioid is mainly used? do you score on the street? is it pain management? how often does swiy not have their drug and have to go into withdrawal? how does swiy feel about this? is it worth it?

[lovelexy]

hey-- swiy's WD symptoms sound exactly like mine! to answer your ?'s, i was prescribed 1st tramadol in the form of ultracet for my severe whole body chronic pain which they didn't know what it was yet. i took that for almost a year, going from 75mgs 1/day to 150mg 5 or 6x/day. the drug worked better than whenever i got percocets (and i don't mean recreationally but like when you get them for oral surgery or car accident, etc). it binds to mu weaker than oxy but it binds to more receptors (this is what doc told me).

my pain got worse b/c i really had a disease that was getting worse. i was finally dx with systemic lupus, fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis in low back, degenerative disk disease with neuropathy (nerve damage in low back legs). primary doc (PCP) temporarily changed tramadol to vicodins 7.5 ev 4-6 hrs. only took these for 2 weeks then got in w/a pain specialist.

even tho PCP approved of pain sp b/c he wasn't going to go any stronger, this pain sp is one of those where they are just a money making business and even tho i was a legit patient, i think they prescribe opiates to everyone. i was prescribed oxycontin (OC) 20mg in morn, 40mg at night. that's higher than a beginner but b/c of the tramadol (which is an opiate, some don't think so but it is completely synthetic designed in a lab to be same strength as codeine but doesn't normally cause nausea or constipation), i had a tolerance already. i was also Rx oxycodone instant release (IR) (the stuff in percs w/o tylenol). 10mg up to 2x/day as needed (prn).

b/c of natural tolerance and b/c the beginning dose wasn't that strong for me anyway, i went up to OC 40mg morn & night, and oxy IR 15 mg 2x/day prn.

then, i'm not sure how long but many months, i went up to OC 40mg 3x/day since it could no longer last 10 hrs and it never lasted 12 hrs for me.

a year later i went up to OC 60mg 3x/day and doubled my oxy IR to 30mg 2x/day. a little while later i was allowed to take the 30mg oxy IR 3x/day. but the IR's were always prn so sometimes i took 1 or none. i NEVER abused, only took for pain and i mean pain that i could not humanky tolerate on my own even with my extremely high threshold for it.

realized i was having WD even tho i nver decreased anything since i hadn't increased the dose in over a year (the 180mgs of OC.) i too awoke with the most horrendous RLS and hellish leg pain and overall body feeling of wanting to get out of my body. when i knew that these "mystery attacks" were indeed WD i was livid and tapered myself off. it has been hell and the hardest thing i have ever done. it hurts more than all my diseases combined and magnified. i quit smoking and that was like blowing bubbles compared. and i was really addicted to nicotine.

i never got a psychological addiciton to opiates amazingly. i remember the euphoria in the beginning and i won't say it wasn't wonderful but it stopped after just a few weeks and i never increased to make it come back. i was dealing with such severe disease pain that i couldn't afford to mess around with feeling even better by being high. i had to take it as prescribed so i could keep the tolerance as low as possible, so i would never run out early, and just b/c i never wanted to get addicted anyway.

NO, none of it was worth it! i would take back all that pain relief i got the past 3.5 yrs to erase the WD feelings and having to go off and having the WD still 8 days out.

i asked the pain sp about going off them before i began them and she said if you taper properly you can't have WD so i took these pills knowing i would be responsible on my end. i kept up my end but the pills didn't. you will WD as long as you don't keep increasing b/c your brain wants and needs those extra receptors to be filled.

i think that answers all your ?'s and probly much more lol! but you said "discuss!"

so my drugs were oxycontin and oxy IR with tramadol being the 1st. it was ALL for legitimate pain releif and i never scored on the street. i never even ran out early or dr shopped. i have had a physical dependence on opiates for almost 4 years. i never didn't have the drug but i went into WD anyway. do i went off completely and am now in WD 8 days out.

i hope my story can help teach those who may want to take these drugs for pain that all this can happen even when you do absolutely everything by the book. your body ends up changing it's whole brain chemistry to allow for the saturation of opiates. it is like no other change like from building up a level of antideppressant or anti-seizure drug or anything except benzos i guess. except i know nothing of other illegal drugs. i am only knowledgeable on pharmacology.

best of luck to anyone trying to detox and best wishes to those who aren't may you stay safe.

AL

[JaWill88]

thanks for discussing! swim did read swiys other post/s about what was going on with swiy. first off swim has to say that is really awesome that swiy never felt compelled to abuse the medication as many who ever feel it's euphoria WILL keep seeking that euphoria. but yeah withdrawal really does blow huh. swim still can't believe he ever put up with the rollercoaster of having stuff and then not having stuff and all that shit. it's just aweful. how are swiys withdrawal symptoms now? has swiy continued to not take the medicine? i think swim replied to swiy earlier and said suboxone is pretty good but ONLY for detox. if one takes it for more than like a week and a half they will most likely be physically hooked (maybe two weeks for someone who never had a habit). but if one uses it for just like 4 or 5 days to get rid of worst withdrawal symptoms it will get rid of them, and not get addicted to that. it is a blessing for that reason. but its HELL for maintenance. the withdrawals are soooo long. swim got to day 16 with now sub and the withdrawal was just peaking! thats insanity and swim would rather suffer heroin withdrawals any day.