Loss Of MDMA "Magic"

[rocksmokinmachine]

SWIM takes MDMA (over 90% pure, the chemist is very reliable). He takes 120mg in a gel capsule and that lasts him all night.

SWIM uses MDMA no more than 4 times a year, so not to loose that "magic".

[Lettish]

It is far better to wait a couple months or more between ecstasy sessions. Tolerance is built up so quickly and Swiy might not ever experience those first couple of ecstasy times ever again. Eventually the roll will become less euphoric and more "dirty" because Swiy'll have to pop so many to get a slight buzz.

Swim's last time on E was 5th Jan this year. He wants to do it again this weekend, and the next, and the next, but he won't because he is saving himself for when it really matters. What'll most likely happen is that Swim won't use E for at least four maybe five months, and that's good. Swim feels there is a problem if one requires ecstasy to be able to have a good time.

Swiy can experiment with the use of 5-HTP to increase serotonin reproduction. Search the forums for "magic" and "5-HTP" and lots of info will be found.

[Micklemouse]

Threads merged.

[Lettish]

Swiy can't beat MDMA and nature, lol.

[6chr0nic4]

i read that it shouldnt be taken at raves, funny.. cuz the last time swim did it was at a rave, and it was still amazing, and was a unique expereince, however, since all the times previous were with a lot of drunk ppl and socializing, swim thinks thats what triggered him to look at it different

so how long do ur rolls last, like the magical lovey dovey feeling thats if u still get it, cuz at the rave, even with the wonderful environment, it only lasted lke 30 min max, can one control this? should swim just think more happy thoughts and force swimself to be more sociable, take more at once instead of spacing them out to possibly peak higher and longer? because at swim's rave, swim did little talking and socializing, only amongst his crowd,

[RaverHippie]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

i read that it shouldnt be taken at raves, funny.. cuz the last time swim did it was at a rave, and it was still amazing, and was a unique expereince, however, since all the times previous were with a lot of drunk ppl and socializing, swim thinks thats what triggered him to look at it different

so how long do ur rolls last, like the magical lovey dovey feeling thats if u still get it, cuz at the rave, even with the wonderful environment, it only lasted lke 30 min max, can one control this? should swim just think more happy thoughts and force swimself to be more sociable, take more at once instead of spacing them out to possibly peak higher and longer? because at swim's rave, swim did little talking and socializing, only amongst his crowd,

For SWIM this has been the setting for most rolls and the most tablets of E consumed has been 2. Every roll has lasted a minimum of 6 hours, most lasting about 8.

[6chr0nic4]

6-8 hours?

hmm swims rolls last aroun that long and usually only needs 2, but how much of that 6-8 hours are u really rolling hard, like peaking or u know ur just so messed up u cant control it or function

[RaverHippie]

atleast 2-3 hours I believe. The entire experience is one taht is enjoyed purely in the moment for swim. He never quantifies the time when he's peaking, coming up/down. He noticed that trying to analyze instead of enjoying the state he is in can actually diminish the impact that the experience leaves him with.

[Lettish]

Absolutely, the best way to go about it is approach it with optimism. Swiy shouldn't study his trip and begin to wonder why he is triping only x amount compared to last time. To some extent, all trips are gonna be different, and Swiy just has to take each one as it comes and work with it optimistically to get the best out of it. Swim keeps in the back of his head that it's a drug doing this to him, and he won't necessarily get many occasions to do this (through his own choice to save the magic), so he just puts himself in a really positive state of mind and enjoys it to the maximum, even if he isn't as "high" as he has been before, it's still absolutely fuckin' euphoric!

Swim's highs usually last 3-4 hours and once he has ceased taking pills, a further 3-4 hours he has a lovely feeling of contemptment and happiness (best time to do ket, but that's a different story).

[6chr0nic4]

mannnnn it seems everytime after swim rolls, hes left with an empty feeling weeks after, and almost non of his rolls are satisfying as he always compares it with the first few times, swim thinks its time to stop

[6chr0nic4]

one question, when swiy says roll, do they mean the whole duration of the E high, or just when they are peaking, how long do swiy's peaks last, swims last around 1-2 hours, however, the last time swim has taken the most he has ever taken, yet the peak only lasted 30 min max, is there any other reason either than it losing its magic that this can account for, the whole high still lasted 6-8 hours

[rocksmokinmachine]

Take 5-HTP beforehand, this may help. Also take regular breaks. SWIM uses 4 times a year at a maximum and has never lost that 'magic'. He also has acess to 95%+ pure MDMA.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine

Take 5-HTP beforehand, this may help. Also take regular breaks. SWIM uses 4 times a year at a maximum and has never lost that 'magic'. He also has acess to 95%+ pure MDMA.

I would recommend not taking 5-HTP the day of rolling, as evidence (largely anecdotal) suggests that this diminishes the intensity of the roll. I think taking a 5-HTP supplement the night before rolling can be helpful, but some just don't preload whatsoever.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

I would recommend not taking 5-HTP the day of rolling, as evidence (largely anecdotal) suggests that this diminishes the intensity of the roll. I think taking a 5-HTP supplement the night before rolling can be helpful, but some just don't preload whatsoever.

I suppose I wasn't maybe clear enough I should think between 18-24 hours before could be beneficial.

[tinytom]

Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine

Take 5-HTP beforehand, this may help. Also take regular breaks. SWIM uses 4 times a year at a maximum and has never lost that 'magic'. He also has acess to 95%+ pure MDMA.

swiy is very lucky to have such a contact, swim wishes for the day he finds a good source.

swim would also say though that his experience with 5-htp was alot better.

[podge]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

one question, when swiy says roll, do they mean the whole duration of the E high, or just when they are peaking, how long do swiy's peaks last, swims last around 1-2 hours, however, the last time swim has taken the most he has ever taken, yet the peak only lasted 30 min max, is there any other reason either than it losing its magic that this can account for, the whole high still lasted 6-8 hours

There may be an other answer - swiys pills had didnt contain MDMA but another psychoactive. An MDMA peak generally lasts about 2 hours.

[SWIH]

well swim was bang on the e's for a significant number of years proper dodgey raver so he was, and after a few years the magic seemed to have died and his mdma use seemed to be making him depressed more than anything else. then after a break of several years he had some crystals tipped down his neck one new years eve and all of the sudden the magic was back (although with a few weeks more recovery time needed than back in the day). he's off it again now, but one of these days the opportunity might arise and magic it'll no doubt be...

having said that it'll never be as magic as in the very early nineties, spending a weeks pocket money on a single dove to share with his first girlfriend all loved up gurning, orgasmic moaning, hugging lamposts and all that shit - fuckin voodoo magic man! 8-D

[KyleM]

5-HTP can be very beneficial when used correctly, there is no doubt about that. At the same time it can accelerate tolerance. SWIM would recommend it for those who suffered depression for a long time before first MDMA session, because the loss of magic is more likely due to low cortical serotonin. Whereas someone who was not suffering depression before first MDMA session probably can blame loss of magic on 5-HT2A downregulation or perhaps D1 downregulation in the nucleus accumbens. 5-HTP could potentially worsen the downregulation for people who fall under this category.

One final note for loss of magic would be: If you prefer the MDMA experience, do not use other drugs as they may cause depletions of neurotransmitters and downregulation of receptors and uptake transporters that MDMA uses for its total effects. That includes (meth)amphetamines and cocaine and other dopaminergic and serotonergic drugs.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks, good read.

[Nose Dive]

My Bill got hold of some pills on new years. It was strange because he got all the, if you will, side effects from pills. The talkativeness, the desire to walk and talk, the desire to dance, the need to hug people and a total loss of the need to sleep but didn't get the euphoric rush he should have done. He thinks this is attributed to a couple of things:

1)He tried them out the night before by taking 1. Mistaaaaaaake! He thinks this released serotonin (As a pill wont) but it didn't give him anything noticable because it usually takes him 2 to get anything. Idiot, why did he nearly ruin his new years?
2) They were probably weak ones.
3) He expected too much of them.

Just some advice to noobs, be informed, be smart

[chinpokomaster]

SWIM finds the magic returns in new surroundings or with different people.

[moda00]

Intriguing idea about new situations or people.. that is a big part of most drug experiences, and especially an empathogen, swim could see that affecting outcomes.. Won't get into detail here, as swim'll write a trip report eventually, but swim "swore off" shitty "mdma" pills in her country, and hasn't gone there for quite awhile. However, recently in a very new setting, she ingested mdma for the first time in several years and was floored. The key seems to be a combination of three factors in swim's limited experience:

1. Quality (of material and mindset)- not only the chemical physical quality of the material, but trusting in it and knowing early on it is what it is allows one to let go into the experience, rather than wonder whether it's legit, or be influenced by small amounts of other cutting agents or fillers- dxm, amphetamines, etc.

2. Setting- swim agrees that a novel experience- different physical environment, different person or group of people, etc. can really cause magic, with or without drugs. It only makes sense to combine them when seeking its return.

3. Time frame- whether one supports purely physical factors (downregulation, etc.), or purely emotional ones (novelty theory etc.), personally I think they both play a role and are linked in many ways. No matter which of these you think factors most prominently, I believe it makes sense for one to use something like mdma sporadically to really get the most out of it, but of course this is an opinion and for the several people who use more often and don't have problems, I say whatever works!

To swim, the "magic" is the empathy, the contentment. Any other effects which can be attributed to the drug, or other drugs- talkativeness, energy, dancing, dilation of pupils, nystagmus, dizziness, dehydration- from positive- neutral- negative- are meaningless as an mdma experience without that underlying force, difficult to describe but I think most swimmers know of what I speak, and perhaps best described as it's unique property described by terms "empathogen" and "entactogen."

I like both these terms, but possibly prefer the second- "to touch within." Empathy is wonderful, and a positive effect, but swim finds she feels empathy almost too strongly at times in sober states. Not to say that an ideal substance for her would reverse that- it wouldn't/shouldn't- but to touch within, to allow the external situations and internal emotions to be imbued with a cohesiveness that can only come from this melding is the most beautiful part to swim.

While empathogen seems to relate only to ones perceptions about others, albeit in a positive way, swim finds that this substance does not have the characteristic effects described, or it does but they do not describe it in a way that feels true to her- sensual/sexual, love and understanding of everyone and everything, pure mental and physical bliss.. perhaps sometimes, but swim finds it very different. While it can be a good social substance, she finds that this "touching within" for lack of better term can be so applicable in so many ways- she wouldn't be any less happy doing mdma alone, or for a therapy session, than to do it at a dance party or with a partner or boyfriend/girlfriend. In fact, she thinks that maybe for some to regain the magic, they have to strip away their preconceptions of the effects and ideal way to ingest this drug and work with only its core quality. For example, dancing can be fun, but is not the same transcendent experience if this quality is gone- what I think we are all describing as the "magic." Even amphetamine alone without mdma can cause an urge to dance, an energy, a social surge, but the magical quality of entactogenesis is what really makes that something special.

Personally I think if one is able to reach these states without substances on occasion, and is not using the drug to try and say put spark into a relationship that lacks it in other cases, or to make someone feel connected when they don't usually, it can be something very productive and worthwhile. That said, I've been in very low places, states of depression that felt they'd never end, and could see how for someone really suffering inside, the chance to feel this way could be a breakthrough- and therapy with mdma can approach all sorts of different issues based on an individual's needs- so I don't mean to discount that in any way, as it is a very versatile drug imo.

But I think that for swim personally, at this point in her life, she knows she can go out and dance all night and have a lovely time- she knows she can connect to another person emotionally and sexually whilst sober- she knows she can feel empathy, sometimes too much, which can be a burden- and she knows if she needed say energy or stimulation she could take her methylphenidate or modafinil prescriptions- so she doesn't have too much resting on the drug itself, and allows her expectations to rest more on her self, if that makes any sense. Rather than have a laundry list for the drug to check off, she feels that if and when she does it again, she will have a clearer understanding of it and herself.

She doesn't approach it exactly like a psychedelic, but kind of.. swim thinks that approaching it a bit moreso in this manner may be helpful for those looking to regain the magic. It is very unique, and classifications aren't the most important thing, but it helps to know what one's experiences have been like in all aspects, to think or journal or meditate on that, on one's expectations and hopes and plans.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	well put, thanks
	talkin sense

[chinpokomaster]

SWIM is sometimes taken by surprise. When he forgets how much he loves the drug, he may take it again, not expecting much and be blown away, thinking "how could I forget how good this was?".

[AceOvArts]

SWIM tried some supposedly very good pills the other week, unfortunately for him he is now prescribed SSRIs, this really reduces the effects of MDMA. A sad day for SWIM.

[RaverHippie]

on the bright side, SSRI's block the neurotoxic effects of MDMA.