Loss Of MDMA "Magic"

[CrookedEye]

Swim used to do a lot of ecstasy during the mid 90's until 2000.. He ate a lot, nearly every weekend for a long spell, and sometimes more often.. He once ate 13 pills in a night, and back when he was getting them, they were always really good and pure.. He began to build a high tolerance (hence the huge doses) and by New Years Eve 1999, he noticed they didn't work for him, just gave instant "e-tardation".. He decided not to use them anymore.. Since then, he has tried it two times.. He still barely felt any good feeling when everyone else was rolling their asses off. He determined that it must have caused some permanent change in him and is sad to say, he just can't do it anymore.. Moderation woud have been a great way to use it, but he is now the wiser..

[Vysas]

After constantly using of xtc,SWIM felt that is not like before.SWIM can't explain,but 'loosing of magic' are the right words.

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

from "Ecstacy - The Comlpete Guide

..study by dr. Liesbeth Reneman and colleagues. These researchers used SPECT scans to measure cortical 5-HT2a receptors (one type of serotonin receptor), and found evidence of fewer 5-HT2a receptors in ten Ecstasy users 7 +\- 5 weeks after their last Ecstasy exposure...

[Akewstick]

My pet monkey has found that after doing pure MDMA almost every weekend this year that he still gets wasted every time, he thinks this is because he also treats his body with respect by excercising regularly and taking doses of 100 mg 5htp for 3-4 days after his experience.

"Getting pretty wasted" is not the same as the "magic" still being there, if you've lost the magic and you take 5 pills, you're still going to gurn and talk nonsense and jump around. This "loss of magic" does not mean SWIY can do loads of pills and be perfectly sober.

[halftone]

SWIMs 2 cents:

SWIM did mdma occasionally (approx. every month or two) for a period of time from late 90's until 2002. Was clean for over 3 years (only marijuana consumed over this time)...then had a chance to try some pills early this year (lab tested, clean, 110mg mdma). It was nice, SWIM had a really good time - but the magic was definitely NOT there, something was missing...On another occasion a few months ago, got ahold of some pills (not tested, but seemed very clean...) and it was the same thing. Good time, but a little something was missing.

Reputation Comments on this post:

3years clean.. very interesting input

[Fantasian]

So that begs the question? how does one obtain the old magic?

[Micklemouse]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

So that begs the question? how does one obtain the old magic?

Put simply, one stops chasing it. Accept each experience as a unique trip, with potential to teach & give insight at best, or at the very least to bring a bit of joy intto one's life. No experience in life is 100% reproducable - some things come close (being in love is still the greatest buzz ever, but does not carry the intensity that the first time did (and no bad thing!), in fact from observation of people who chase that feeling, as with mdma, nothing but hurt & disappointment ensues; the Great Cornholio episode of Beavis & Butthead still makes A Certain Mouse howl with laughter however many years after he first saw it, for example), but they will never 100% reproduce the feelings felt the first time. Why then should mdma be any different?

Like anything else in life treat mdma, and your Self, with respect & ye'll be reet. Abuse either, & the Universe will deal you a light slap around the chops. If you're lucky...

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM took Ecstasy every weekend for about 2 years (generally 2-4 pills per weekend) and towards the end SWIM found she needed to take a break from them for about 3 weeks for the intensity to return. Nothing ever felt quite like the first time, but some nights came pretty close.... especially if she was with someone she was really into.... the love and the magic going hand in hand.

Then it seemed like over night the pills stopped working, more than stopped working, they started to make SWIM feel like crap..... no euphoria, no energy, over heated, fuzzy head feeling, all very unpleasant. So SWIM took a break for a few months but with no luck. SWIM then took a break for 7 months and thought that would definitely do the trick, but again Ex just made her feel like crap.

This was a few years ago now, and SWIM has since done a bit of research on it, and has found a correlation between daily use of GHB and a negative or unpleasant reaction to MDMA. It is thought that maybe G prevents the release of serotonin? Unsure exactly how true that is or how that works, but many of SWIM’s friends who have in the past been daily users of GHB, have had very similar experiences. Some have noted that with as little as week without GHB, the good MDMA feelings returned.

[Fantasian]

So what your saying is one doesnt get the old magic or lose the old magic. One simply finds new magic :P

[Micklemouse]

If one allows one's Self to find it, yes. Constantly trying to regain the 'old' magic(k) can only lead to disappointment & possible harm,cos magic(k) by it's very nature is constantly changing. The circumstances surrounding the original experience will never be the same - the pill or batch of crystal will most likely be different, the company & environment will be different, & most importantly the creature taking the mdma will be different. Ergo, the experience can never be the same.

To constantly harp after that first incredible experience is almost an insult to every subsequent experience, just as comparing every new love to one's first love is an insult - you cannot appreciate the person you are with now fully if they are being compared & found wanting against that first heady flush of emotion & hormones, the person you are now with will soon cotton on, disappointment & hurt soon follow. Equally one can easily fall into the trap of "These pills're crap, not like they were back in the day. Gotta take more to get anything like the buzz. Been taking 'em for years now, & they just keep getting crapper..." Well, derrr! Course they're crap! If the attitude one is going into the experience with is crap, the experience is crap. Stands to reason.

Keep an open mind & heart, keep the experience special, allow each experience to hold it's own magic(k), & all will be reet, in love & in Ecstasy...

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

yes Micklemouse, good points!
and if someone don't really feel like rolling, they should postpone it to sometime when the do have that feeling. cause mindset is important

swim has actually heard of people saying that their first roll wasn't the best ... although many find it to be

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

I've been thinking quite some about this problem, and this is my theory:

As it's pointed out here by some users, loss of magic is divided into two things, which is loss of novelty, and loss of the "loved up" feeling.

I came to think of the first times I used alcohol. And it was not a completely different "high", but it defiantly gave slightly other effects than it does now.
I got drunk in a different way. I still can get totally pissed, and even pass out, but the feeling is just not the same. Not that it matters so much for the sake of the "high", it's just a point in my theory


I though a lot about it, and I came to remember something we learned in school, where we was taught than the first times people drink, they feel different when drunk, but after some times (5-10 in my case), the feeling changes a little bit, and this is due to a minor brain damage, which only manifests itself in just that (this is something I learned at school ages ago, and I can't back it up with references).

One other thing is that if a person drinks very often they develop a tolerance, due to the body adjusting itself to the increase in (gaba?) neuro-signals

I see this as two different things. Normal tolerance, just as with all drugs known to man, and a tiny brain damage, which can change it's effect


And I believe it's just the same with MDMA, the first some times it's being used such a change could take place. And therefore it wouldn't be just the same after.

[Waiting]

Hey! I've been told that after doing e for a while, it begins to lose it's effect. How can I prevent this from happening? I've done it about seven times over the course of three and a half months, and I *really* don't want it to lose it's magic.

If I do about two pills every weekend, will it lose it's effect really quickly? Or does it really depend on the pill you get?

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated )

[Alicia]

have a break, swia assumes it could due to the lack of the neuro-chemical transmitter serotonin. eating foods that build these up may help. if not take a fortnights break then try again.

[Lettish]

Absolutely Swiy should give it a rest. Not only will Swiy build up a tolerance but also the novelty will wear off. Swiy won't have trips as good as previous ones. Take about two months off, eat a good balanced diet, drink plenty of water, and really make your body healthy. Then try again, but don't drop five pills at once like Swiy probably does now. My friend recommends the use of 5-HTP to help replace lost serotonin after rolling.

[chemlove]

Yes above is the best answer Only rest will help you. I know there are people out their marketing items that could help you gain

a vitamin / compound called 5h+ is said to boost seratonin and increase the flow of oxygen to the brain, BUT most of the reading i have done say evidence is inconclusive at best.

i haven't had the pleasure to try so i can't go beyond what i have heard.

[Whit]

Slow down space man!!!!

At that rate your magic is disapearing fast even if you haven't noticed yet!

Mini me reccomends consuming MDMA a MAXIMUM of one occasion a month.

There is research out there, I can't remember where I've seen it but start with erowid, then give google a blast.

Not only are you allowing the magic in MDMA to live on, your also benefiting your health both short/long term

5-htp and vitamin c are both usefull for helping replenish serotonin.

Peace!

[kaliwraith]

Yeah... SWIM IV'd a bunch of pure MDMA and within 2 days, he has a massive tolerance to it. Fun, but not too often. With no tolerance, SWIM prefers 30-50 mg. So he has to wait a while for it to gain its magic back. If above 35, he usually does it in two doses, rather than overshoot it. Also, 30 mg IV 2c-b... Completely awesome. 1.5 hours of awesome visuals, slight euphoria. When the visuals gave way, another 2.5 hours that felt exactly like peaking on 300 mg MDMA ensued. SWIM doesn't get/notice a tolerance to 2c-x's unless he goes to heroic levels and then tries a small dose the next day.

[Mint boi]

My ferret keeps his mdma use for special occasions only, he knows many people dont do this, but for him its the best way for E to keep its magic.

He has never had a bad come down, and the day/week after has never been depressing.

He just feels that such a great drug should be kept for making an already special event even better as opposed to making a normal weekend out good.

Reputation Comments on this post:

yup! nicely put

[6chr0nic4]

how long do ur rolls last, i mean like actual rolling hard, u know the feeling when u cant control how happy u are, ur faced is all

before they would last at least 90 min - 2 hours for swim

last time swim popped it only lasted like 20 min, thing is, it couldnt have been the pills cuz it was pure mdma however swim only did 1

swim did 2 more that night but couldnt get that feeling back, is this normal? swim was still high and feeling amazing usually only need 1 - 1+1/2,

first time swim has done pure mdma, is that whats its like? i mean swim dont feel as fucked up and out of control, its a good thing, but it just doesnt last as long - not the high itself, but the really lovey dovey happy thiz face feeling

it was the first in 5 months, swim spread out the caps like one here one an hour later ect , should swim have done a shit load at once to roll harder and longer?

swim has done e 7 times in the last year and a half, however the first 4 times were in the span of 3 weeks, could it be because of this early abuse its magical effect has diminished?

thanks in advance for the help

[KyleM]

The intensity of MDMA depends on various factors including brain chemistry, pill content (how much MDMA is actually being consumed), rate of absorbtion/amount of absorbtion, and setting. Some factors can be controlled, others cannot. SWIY's brain chemistry is probably much different now than when he experienced magic (low serotonin...) This topic is all over the forum, SWIY should read some other posts, there is pretty good info covering this topic already available.

[moda00]

Some part of it could be perception. Many drug experiences are perceived as being a certain way at the time of one's first experiencing them- sure, partly the substance itself, and its chemical effects on the brain, contribute to its characteristic euphoria and intensity- but so does the novelty, the simple fact that one is experiencing something unlike anything they have ever felt before. Once it is known and repeated, whether occasionally or very regularly, it is usually still an interesting and positive experience, and the drugs don't lose their effects entirely, but it certainly does change, and methinks many have experienced it. Basically, one may not perceive the "magic" of the experience because he knows what to expect and has a point of reference. The feeling is not ordinary reality, but at the same time, it's not an entirely new and unprecedented one either, putting it somewhere in the middle.

In addition, one likely recalls that first experience vividly, and attaches expectations to it, both consciously and subconsciously. One can never re-experience that first time, and the first time will always be ingrained in the memory in a certain way, and future experiences held up for comparison. For some, it may mean that after several uses of the substance, they feel they have nowhere left to go with it, and give it up. For others, it remains part of their lives- either because they are chasing an experience that by its very nature cannot and will not re-occur, or because they acknowledge that the experience has changed but still find it valuable.

An example that comes to mind is Christmas- I still have intense and fond memories of the magic of Christmas as a little kid. I can remember the exact year it ceased to be so, and knew then that it would never return. So while I still love Christmas in that it has certain enjoyable moments and components- the feeling of giving to people, the opportunities to spend time with family and make contact with those you don't see as often as you'd like, the beauty of the holiday lights at night, the special way that it induces compassion in people who are usually too angry or busy or de-sensitized to give a crap about anything- lol. Now, it is no longer the same as an entity, no longer something amazing or mystical to me- despite the same basic and enjoyable pieces, it still feels incomplete or lacking in something. And this can be disappointing, in that I will always know what it used to be, but it will never be the same again. And I know that nothing has changed externally to make me experience it differently.. Christmas is still Christmas.. still do the same things with the same people, the weather, the food, the "Christmas spirit.." What changed was me- my perceptions. A lot of this is attributable to me "growing up" and maturing, which has nothing to do directly with the MDxx experience- not recommended for children But the concept is the same- the very word "magic" evoked for me believing in something amazing, something completely new and strange and wonderful- this is how children tend to perceive the world, for a time anyways. This changes because one is exposed to things and gains more knowledge and experience, so while this is good for functioning in society and becoming independent, one can never return to that state of wonder and naivete- although one can remember the feeling with nostalgia, it simply cannot be re-created.

And so it is with this substance-- the chemical properties of ecstasy are pretty much the same over time (especially if swiy is getting it pure from a trusted source as stated)-- but the magic of feeling that state for the first time is something that can be built up in our memories, but not re-created.

Of course much of it could be physiological, as KyleM's good post pointed out- factors like tolerance and changes in brain chemistry and such, which would impact both the objective effects and interactions of the drug in one's body, as well as one's perception of the effects. But from a purely psychological standpoint, I think this is a huge part of it. I also think in general, we grow up and reach a point where we think we have a pretty good grasp on the things around us. Not much surprises or amazes most adults, and often the things that have the potential to do so are the negatives- which eventually many people have to tune out or become somewhat desensitized, in order to keep functioning. For me personally, trying to live in the moment and see the beauty in the little things- being out in nature, spending time with my companion animals, watching an eclipse or a sunset, hearing a new song or seeing a new artist's work or feeling a new texture- both finding the magic in things that many would overlook as mundane, and taking the time to seek out novelty and experience new things- both new frames of mind and consciousness, and new external experiences and sensations.. trying a new food, going para-sailing, exploring my sexuality.. I am often very attuned to detail and very sensitive to the amazement and "magic" of the world around me, but in that same way I am also very sensitive to negative energies, and so in that way it is a bit of a trade-off. To feel the extreme highs I suppose one has to know their counterpart, their opposite, their "equal and opposite reaction."

Whether to continue using MDMA is completely up to swiy- whether he feels it is still a beneficial experience, or perhaps that it will only cause frustration or unmet expectations? One could try any number of strategies to alter the physical causes, with likely limited success- take longer breaks in between uses, use other chemicals or medications to alter brain chemistry or potentiate the substance (could be very dangerous if one doesn't know what they are doing).. but from the tone of the post, and the use of the word "magic" (I think we all know exactly what you mean by that; it is the perfect word for it) there will always be something about that very first time that can't be recreated, imho. As I said, I knows that feeling well from the Christmas analogy, and Swim has also had similar experiences with mdma to the point where she is glad to have experienced it, but isn't particularly anxious to do it again, and doesn't know if or when she ever will.

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

it was the first in 5 months, swim spread out the caps like one here one an hour later ect , should swim have done a shit load at once to roll harder and longer?

swim has done e 7 times in the last year and a half, however the first 4 times were in the span of 3 weeks, could it be because of this early abuse its magical effect has diminished?

thanks in advance for the help

With regard to your first question, I don't think so nd think it is good swiy did not attempt this. From Shulgin's PIKHAL, drastic increases in dosage tend to increase the negative side effects and possible health problems without proportionately increasing the positive effects. As for the length, this too is hard to alter. Shulgin recommends that a booster dose (of somewhere around 1/3-1/2 the original dose, if I recall correctly) can safely be taken within a certain time frame in order to extend the experience by about an hour.. but any attempts to extend it beyond this tends to be risky and without significant benefits or results.

As for your other question, the heavy use in the span of those first three weeks could have and likely had some level of impact on your brain chemistry and tolerance within those three weeks and likely a period following them. But I don't think that would have a significant effect on you at this point in time, about a year and a half later from your posting.. The effects from that, if any, were probably most likely to be seen only acutely, in the period during and immediately following the heavy use.. Such heavy use without allowing the body time to heal can definitely be dangerous, don't get me wrong, I just don't think that the changes you are describing are primarily caused by this- if this were the case, swiy would likely have had other, more noticeable symptoms or problems in the interim.

As stated, I think this change in one's experience and perception of the drug effects is fairly common, and imo explained mainly by psychological/mental factors- novelty, expectation, etc. An exception to this could be if you are taking other medications which would be interacting with the drug or altering other things and thus affecting it in some way..

Best of luck to you..

[6chr0nic4]

thanks a lot for the reply i really apreciate it, and i think no1 could have answered it better for me personally, now when swim does it again swim will do it knowingly and try to make the most out of it

out of curiosity, may swim ask why swiy doesnt do it anymore, is it cause of too much repetition, bored of it or...

mannnn everytime i think about swims first time it bring about an indescribable inner joy that just makes my day

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

out of curiosity, may swim ask why swiy doesnt do it anymore, is it cause of too much repetition, bored of it or...

mannnn everytime i think about swims first time it bring about an indescribable inner joy that just makes my day

Doesn't the question find an answer in its succeeding statement?

That indescribable inner joy is yours! It always will be!

"I think that if you do these things right, they give you plenty to think about....You wont have to do it more than three of four times a year to feel fully psychedelic."

-Terence McKenna

And if you do them right enough, you may feel right forever, with plenty to think about.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great post, straight to the point, thank you for pointing that out.. have a good one!

[moda00]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

thanks a lot for the reply i really apreciate it, and i think no1 could have answered it better for me personally, now when swim does it again swim will do it knowingly and try to make the most out of it

out of curiosity, may swim ask why swiy doesnt do it anymore, is it cause of too much repetition, bored of it or...

mannnn everytime i think about swims first time it bring about an indescribable inner joy that just makes my day

To answer swiy's question, swim doesn't do it any more for several reasons. She has grown frustrated with the unpredictability of the experience due to questionable ingredients and potencies in pills, and the fact that after her first say three experiences, she felt the effects of mdma when consumed, but mostly the negative or neutral ones. She could feel very "intoxicated," different sensations and such, jaw clenching, insomnia.. but that "magical" euphoria was just not part of it anymore, and she found that she didn't really have a desire to pursue further experiences.. like swiy, she has the most amazing memories of her first roll, and that is something to treasure and hang on to, but she found little benefit from subsequent experimentation. Not to say she'll never do it again for sure, who knows, but for the time being she prefers to spend her time, money, energy in sober states or other altered states. This is the one substance that she feels strongly doesn't get much better over time, and usually diminishes. With drugs like opioids or benzos or uppers, she feels that for her, there are generally consistent, predictable, and simple effects.. (although addiction/tolerance and iv drug use can combine to cause a similar effect- diminishing enjoyment- but she feels that differs from the unique properties of mdma and her experiences with the substance) With psychedelics, once one is familiar with the feeling, they are generally more able to let the trip take the lead, and more comfortable in that state. They are often able to use them as a tool over time to experience and learn new things; as an ongoing journey. Swim doesn't feel that her mdma experiences have progressed towards anything meaningful; rather they are rather disconnected from one another, unlike her experiences with prychedelics. For some, mdma might be enjoyable and worthwhile throughout their whole lives, but personally swim feels a sentiment similar to what swiy expressed in his post and thus has not felt the need or desire to seek it out, although she could access it if she wanted to. Hope this answers your question, it's definitely an interesting issue and something each person experiences a bit differently.. but I'd love to hear other tales of swims and swiys and whether they have gradually moved away from a desire to use due to these conditions, or whether they have enjoyed the effects over longer periods of time.