Opinions - Opinions please...Are current drug laws helping or hurting us?

[jkolt89]

I was just wondering what other people's opinions and thoughts were on the 2 questions below. I hope they makes sense.

1) Is it easier for children to buy alcohol and cigarettes than it is from them to purchase drugs?

2) If drugs were legalized, would less people or more people die from overdoses, etc than the number of people that currnently are killed ever year due to the of violence directly generated by the illegalization of drugs and the drug war?

[Paracelsus]

1) Depends a lot on the country. In Romania, when I was 16, all I had to do to buy vodka was say a quick "yes" when asked "are you over 18?" by the cashier. And I've seen a lot of middle schoolers who smoke regularly.

2) Absolute legalisation would inevitably lead to more deaths through overdose and other causes related directly to the drug. This would not be the case, however, if certain drugs would be made available in a restricted manner, like alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceuticals are today.

[I<3Salvia]

Depends on the place, family, and friends of the individual. Swim has always had access to alcohol since he was a little kid, he was raised that it was not taboo to drink, but it was a classy thing to do on special occassions. He wasn't sensored from it, much like with cigarettes and pot. Because of this swim never saw it as a big deal to get drunk, high, or get a fix. This has helped swim in a large way because he's not got that, "Oh they tell me it's wrong so I'm going to do it" mentality that so many kids these days have.

If drugs were legalized and regulated, you'd bet your ass there would be less od's, maybe more users, at least at first, but less od's because people would be living in a more informed, less taboo society.

[jkolt89]

swim agrees. In this area however it's much easier for an under 18 year old person to get illegals and much harder for them to purchase alcohol and tobacco. This, to swim, is ironic because the authorities are constantly saying how drugs need to be illegal in order to protect children.

[Feelingood]

When SWIM was a kid, he either made friends with the seniors for the illegal side. or asked the friendly hobo to buy alcohol for a five buck tip. Easy to get what you want legal or not. Although SWIM never had a problem with the alcohol, SWIM OD'd twice on heroin when he was 14, both because of a relatively pure batch compared to the average street shit. That would have never happened if he knew what was in his bag. let alone the gang violence and repeated robbings at knife and gun point. The hobo just gave SWIM a smile, thanked SWIm for paying for his dinner, and occasionally asked for a "coffin nail".

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by jkolt89

1) Is it easier for children to buy alcohol and cigarettes than it is from them to purchase drugs?

I would say easier to get drugs, because everybody knows who the local teenage dealers are and they don't ask for ID. Alcohol and cigs aren't that hard to get but it's more hassle - you've to get someone to get it for you.

Originally Posted by jkolt89

2) If drugs were legalized, would less people or more people die from overdoses, etc than the number of people that currnently are killed ever year due to the of violence directly generated by the illegalization of drugs and the drug war?

Ending the violence of the global war on drugs would probably save more lives than any other measure you care to propose. After that, I'd guess that the ODs etc would be around the same, probably fewer because of the regulated, relatively consistent nature of the legal product.

Incidentally, I believe the number of hard drug addicts would remain the same or even decline in such a situation since I believe that 99% of people (a recent study bears this out) would not try hard drugs even if they were sold legally and freely.

[thrackelsby]

Seeing as Swim is closer to High and Middle school than most of his fellow DFers (Graduated '07), I might be able to give a more accurate answer to question #1.

I think it's far easier to get alcohol and cigarrettes, even if you have to get someone to buy it for you. It's simple enough to ask the oldest looking kid in the group to run down to the store and buy some cigs. Also, who says you need to buy alcohol? Most of the kids that Swim chilled with just stole their liquor from **insert generic grocery store**. Walk in with a backpalk, fill it with wine, whiskey etc... buy soda, walk out the front door. Works every time. Marijuana is about the same difficulty, but anything else is harder. For harder drugs/psychedelics you have to know who to ask, as while Alky, tobacco and weed are socially approved, other drugs generally belong to certain groups.

If all drugs were legalized it is my opinion that usage would shoot up, and so would OD's, but that would soon subside once users recognized the proper use of drugs. Actually, I'm not sure, I think that abuse rates and OD's would increase, seeing as just because alcohol is legal doesn't stop thousands from killing themselves both fast and slow by it.

The idea in my mind, though, is that it doesn't matter what happens per abuse rates and such, but rather the principle of the thing. I believe that it should be a persons right to put in his or her body what he or she wants as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, and the gov't has no right regulating that.

[Mr. Giraffe]

Sorry, should have posted this link earlier. Usage would not increase.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/...ion_zogby_poll

Ninety-Nine Percent Say They Wouldn't Use Hard Drugs If Legalized, According to Zogby Poll
Zogby polling data released today asked 1,028 likely voters, "If hard drugs such as heroin or cocaine were legalized, would you be likely to use them?" Ninety-ninety percent of respondents answered, "No." Only 0.6 percent said "Yes." The remaining 0.4 percent weren't sure.
The results are similar to usage rates occurring under today's "drug war," as measured by the federal government's National Survey on Drug Use and Health (formerly the National Household Survey). The 2006 NSDUH found 0.3 percent of the population had used heroin in the past month and 2.4 percent had used cocaine. Even for cocaine, the numbers are compatible, because Zogby surveyed persons aged 18 years and up, while NSDUH begins with age 12; and because of the poll's statistical margin of error of 3.1 percentage points.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Great study, very appreciated.
	good info

[jkolt89]

That's a good article, Mr Giraffe. I agree that usage wouldn't increase overall.

Isn't drug use in Amsterdam, statistically speaking, less than it is in most other countries in the world?

[Purest]

I don't have any figures to hand, but lots of the UK's pressure groups quote figures from the netherlands as pros for legalisation due to their levels of useage being significantly lower than the UK's current level.

As for opinions to the raised questions.

#1 its very easy to get hold of cigarettes and alcohol in certain places, it depends entirely on how law abiding the cashiers are in general.

#2 I can see a huge amount of people going silly if theres sudden change brought about. However after an initial phase of people being completely stupid I can see it becoming just another one of those things really, like people will drop casually in the pub that they smoke (smoking becoming more taboo in pubs now in the UK) it'l be something you lightly drop into conversation, in my opinion at least.

[Alfa]

My opinion is that if a thread starter does not take the effort to write a descriptive title, then I can't be blamed for deleting the thread.

Please edit it.

[jkolt89]

The thread title has been changed. Hope it's better than before. Couldn't really think of anything better.