Your views on drug use during pregnancy

[moda00]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

Is it this one?

Hmm no it's not the one I am thinking of but is very relevant and worth reading, thanks for posting that!! I'll try to dig the other one up, not directly related to pregnancy but very relevant to social perceptions and harm reduction as discussed some..

[Paracelsus]

Indeed, but he didn't talk about the "crack baby epidemic."

[beentheredonethatagain]

A mother taking illegal drugs during pregnancy increases her risk for anemia, blood and heart infections, skin infections, hepatitis, and other infectious diseases. She also is at greater risk for sexually transmitted diseases.

Heroin, cocaine, and other addictive drugs are not necessarily deforming substances, but use can cause withdrawal in the newborn as well as growth retardation in the unborn baby. Alcohol abuse can cause what's called Fetal-Alcohol Syndrome, associated with deformed teeth and facial features and mental retardation. Marijuana, like cigarettes, has many chemicals in it besides THC. If you get stoned, your baby gets stoned--all at a time when neural cells are busy developing so that they can handle all of the neurotransmitters used in proper central nervous system functioning.

A laboratory test, called a chromatography, performed on a woman's urine can detect many illegal drugs, including marijuana and cocaine. Marijuana and cocaine, as well as other illegal drugs, can cross the placenta. Marijuana use during pregnancy may be linked to behavioral problems in the baby. Cocaine use can lead to premature delivery of the fetus, premature detachment of the placenta, high blood pressure, and stillbirth.

A woman's drug use can affect both her fetus and her newborn. Most drugs cross the placenta--the organ that provides nourishment to the fetus. Some can cause direct toxic (poisonous) effects and drug dependency in the fetus. After birth, some drugs can be passed to the baby through breast-feeding.

Drugs can cause problems throughout your pregnancy. For example, the early part of pregnancy is the most critical for the health of a fetus. This is when the main body systems are forming. Using drugs during this time can cause severe damage. Drugs can have harmful effects on the fetus at any time during the pregnancy, their nature depending on the timing of exposure. During the first two weeks of development, the embryo is thought to be resistant to any teratogenic effects of drugs.


The critical period of embryonic development, when the major organ systems develop, starts at about 17 days postconception and is complete by 60 to 70 days. Exposure to certain drugs during this period (17 to 70 days) can cause major birth defects. However, some drugs can interfere with functional development of organ systems and the central nervous system in the second and third trimesters and produce serious consequences. During the last 12 weeks of pregnancy, drug use poses the greatest risk for stunting fetal growth and causing pre-term birth.

How Drugs Affect The Pregnant Woman:
Poor appetite
Trouble sleeping at night
Early (premature) labor
Hard to make decisions or plans
More chances of infections (transmitted through sex)
Water breaks too early
Not able to recognize or cope with normal changes during pregnancy
Sudden bleeding
How Drugs Affect The Unborn Baby:
Low weight at birth
Early delivery or miscarriage
Growth and development may be slow
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) or Fetal Alcohol Effect (FAE)
Mental retardation
Heart problems
Defects of the face and body
Death
How Drugs Affect You and Your Baby After Delivery:
Withdrawal symptoms that may keep you or your baby in the hospital longer
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)
Greater chance of feeling depressed after having the baby
Trouble being a parent
Hard to make decisions or plans
Hard to cope with your new baby's needs (i.e. eating, sleeping, crying)
Hard to bond with your baby
Hard to hold a job

http://www.addictionca.com/drug-use-pregnancy.htm

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethatagain

Marijuana, like cigarettes, has many chemicals in it besides THC. If you get stoned, your baby gets stoned--all at a time when neural cells are busy developing so that they can handle all of the neurotransmitters used in proper central nervous system functioning.

A laboratory test, called a chromatography, performed on a woman's urine can detect many illegal drugs, including marijuana and cocaine. Marijuana and cocaine, as well as other illegal drugs, can cross the placenta. Marijuana use during pregnancy may be linked to behavioral problems in the baby.

Cannabis is the most commonly used illicit drug among women of childbearing age.* Self reported use during pregnancy (NIDA 1992) was 2.9%. Longitudinal studies have concluded use rates of 10 to 16% in middle-class samples and 23 to 30% in inner-city populations. These statistics propose cannabis as being one of the most highly used intoxicants during pregnancy, and thus an interesting and important prospect for investigation. Surprisingly, only a handful of studies have actually been completed on prenatal cannabis exposure, but their results are relatively convergent. While the concept of prenatal cannabninoid exposure resulting in a "stoned baby" has been widely disproved and disregarded, impacts on the birthing process (a consistent 1-week delay in gestation period, as well as increased incidence of labor-inducing but non-harmful contractions) and development (specifically cognitive and visuoperceptual) have been examined and debated due to their potential significance.


While a few complications have been reported as potential results of marijuana consumption on early baby-hood (Altered Cry Acoustics, Poor Visual Habituation, Minutely Decreased Skull Growth), none of them have been reported in a high enough incidence to "reach statistical significance*", meaning that their rate of incidence could not justify blame in exclusion of other factors. Furthermore, the complications have been shown to recede completely within 30 days of growth (Fried et al., also *) Several tests employing The Bayley Scales of Infant Development have "reported no effect of cannabis use during pregnancy on infant mental or motor development*" at 1 year growth (Astley S. Little R). Use during pregnancy has never been linked to IQ or Stanford-Binnet Intelligence evaluations, but has (by a single study) been linked to poor short term visual memory (Griffith et al.). One report showed that at 6 years, offspring of marijuana users (during pregnancy) a slightly increased error of omission on a vigilance task was reported, possibly indicated a deficit in sustained attention (Fried PA). Higher ratings of inattention, impulsively, and activity, are also reported (Richardson et al.) Impairments of Executive Function, which is not a singular site of activity but rather a neural amalgamation of cognitive functioning not considered related to general intelligence but more to abstract problem solving and "top-down" solutions, have been shown in several studies as a result of prenatal cannabis exposure at 10 years of development (Fried et al., *). To complicate that, behavioral neuroscientists and developmental psychologists regularly agree that development of Executive Functions is an ongoing process reaching ages beyond the scope of any current or past studies, making the results at age 10 potentially misleading. The impact and consequences of marijuana use during pregnancy (prenatal cannabinoid exposure, coupled with CO2 increase/O2 decrease in temporary consumption and adulterant exposure) are subtle if existent (primarily impact shown in "the domains of attention/impulsivity and problem solving skills requiring integration and manipulation of basic visuoperceptual skills"*), but potentially valid information from a very limited scope of completed scientific studies would lead swim to the conclusion that though social and cognitive implications of motherhood and responsibility displayed by someone using controlled substances during pregnancy may have negative implications, the potential impact of marijuana use on prenatal, childhood, and adult life of an exposed offspring are non-existent in a reasonable consistency to imply "damage" or "harm".


*=National Institute on Drug Control Policy (NIDA)- Ottawa Prenatal Prospective Study (OPPS) 1978-current

[VincentVan]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

I thought this would make for an interesting debate.

I'm sorry Paracelsus but in my humble opinion this would make for an interesting debate among women , and specially among women considering the possibility of having a baby.
A bunch of guys discussing how women should behave during pregnancy seems to me as absurd as a bunch of born deaf discussing music.
It reminds me to a book I saw recently in a used books stall. It was a sort of manual to teach women how to enjoy a better sex life.
I regularly avoid all sort of self help books but I just had to buy that one.
It was written by two men.

VV

Reputation Comments on this post:

VV I love you! You always hit the nail right on the head!

[Paracelsus]

I do understand your point, but this is not only a discussion about morality (men discussing how women should behave when pregnant) but also one that touches scientific and legal issues. Should women not be allowed to post facts in a thread about Viagra?

[~lostgurl~]

In a round about way you are saying that fathers have no rights. A good father-to-be would be very interested in discussing this subject, especially if the mother-to-be is not acting in her unborn babies best interest.

[VincentVan]

Hey, hey, don't get me wrong here.
I'm surely not advocating of abandoning your girl to her businesses as soon as a pregnancy test shows a positive result.
As a matter of fact SWIM's family consists just of himself and his little daughter. When her mother's eyes, smile and then her entire splendid body began to bloom into the season of motherood, he tried his best to make her understand that she could rely on him on every second of this latest and most critical of their adventures.
He tried to make her know how important and exhilarating these days were for him too; and specially how sincerely grateful he was for all the new perspectives and sensations he could never have been able to experience on his own.
Sometimes he worried.
He casually suggested her to read some articles he thought contained informations she should know. He (unsuccessfully) tried to replace her multiple daily pots of tea with fruit juices and milkshakes; and to drop some hints here and there whenever he could; but ultimately he always knew that she knew much, much better than him how to deal with her new situation.
Millions of years of evolution through natural selection were silently at work within this apparently needy masterpiece of nature, dictating to her the appropriate reaction to every novel sensation and situation.
Let me tell you: she did a great job.
SWIM has the proof under his eyes every time he looks at his daughter growing up into a new individual.
Even in his moments of doubt and insecurity ( and there had been quite a few of those too) SWIM never thought to start to teach to his girl how to be pregnant any more than he would think to start teaching Alfa how to run the DF.
Women, even at his ripe age, still mantain that same sense of mistery and fascination they had when as little boy he was desperately trying to find plausible answers to his many intriguing questions.
They still remain parallel universes waiting to be explored but never fully understandable, because unbounded by the dimensions limiting SWIM's horizons and perceptions.
He can be an unnerving guy, my friend SWIM.
But he says he likes it that way.

VV.

"Ave o Maria adesso che sei donna
Ave alle donne come te Maria
Femmine un giorno e poi madri per sempre..."
(From the apocryphal Gospel of Peter)

Reputation Comments on this post:

real honest

[chemlove]

Personally i believe its a mothers choice. Also in the end the mother is going to make the choice (it won't really matter what others say). SWIMs mom smoke marijuana often during preg. and SWIM has no disadvantages, I am fully healthy highly intelligent and overall have a great feel for life and a pretty good mindset (not being depressed) most the time

Do i believe mothers should hit the crack pipe while preg. of course not, I don't believe any mother would truly want to hurt their children, but sometimes somthings are harder to kick then you could imagine. *well actually most of you guys can imagine*

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for contributing your perspective

[Coconut]

Originally Posted by chemlove

Personally i believe its a mothers choice. Also in the end the mother is going to make the choice (it won't really matter what others say). SWIMs mom smoke marijuana often during preg. and SWIM has no disadvantages, I am fully healthy highly intelligent and overall have a great feel for life and a pretty good mindset (not being depressed) most the time

Do i believe mothers should hit the crack pipe while preg. of course not, I don't believe any mother would truly want to hurt their children, but sometimes somthings are harder to kick then you could imagine. *well actually most of you guys can imagine*

SWIM's mother smoked during her pregnancy (frankly this absolutely disgusts him) and SWIM suffers from multiple health problems, depression in the past and a suspect case of attention deficit disorder without hyperactivity. If someone is serious about becoming a mother, they will remove as much as they can from their lives which might harm the foetus.

[Paracelsus]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45793

[darkglobe]

I'm a little out of my depth here, as I have done absolutely no scientific research or even given any sort of fleeting thought, but since it's a fantastic topic, I thought I'd give my totally personal and in-no-way-correct opinion. Before I do I have to admit I've read about half of the posts.

As far as the comparison to abortion - well... you'd think if a mother chose NOT to abort the foetus (and IMO it is simply that: a foetus) then she would actually want the foetus to grow into a child, and she'd want the child to be born healthy and well. Right?

Hardcore drug addicts aside, I would reckon it would be a preeeetty simple choice to abstain from anything which could harm your baby-to-be. Alcohol, cigarettes and - as I heard on the news today - Caffeine are all legal and freely available to those of the legal age, in most if not all countries. They can indeed harm a foetus.

I think it hasn't been made illegal to consume them while pregnant (apart from it being impossible to enforce!) because it is simply assumed that pregnant women would themselves choose to refrain from using such substances whilst pregnant.

At the end of the day, the decision (sometimes unfortunately) lies solely with the female in question. To rail or not to rail, that is the question.

I'm kinda going off on a tangent here, so I'll stop myself now, but this is a highly interesting topic, and one which probably doesn't get as much attention as it deserves.

"Fuck what they drugs do to a foetuses (i know i know).... let's all ask why they do it to them" - Selfishness, addiction, lack of thought, ignorance, stupidity.

I personally think any mother-to-be who chooses to do ANYTHING which may harm her baby-to-be.... well to be honest I would go as far as saying they are a bad person, and probably unwittingly ruining someone else's life.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for posting, all the different input and perspective is interesting, even though as you say it is not an issue yo...

[~lostgurl~]

Slightly off topic but........ The Silent Scream has been called the most important pro-life video in the history of legalized abortion. This videos shows through ultrasound an abortion being performed and a child screaming inside the womb.

[VincentVan]

Originally Posted by ~lostgurl~

This videos shows through ultrasound an abortion being performed and a child screaming inside the womb.

My gawd Lostgurl.
My first impulse was to start combing search engines to find this monstruosity, but I'm really not sure I want to see it.
Do you know how old was the foetus in the video?
He must have had a fully formed nervous system; and that makes me think (or at least hope) that the abortion in question was performed for therapeutic reasons.
I know that some states of the US allow so called "partial birth abortions" in which the cranium of the foetus is crushed to avoid live births.
My personal opinion is that this is barbarism.
The only base for this practice is the nazist principle of the elimination of beings considered to be useless.
No. Now I'm sure: I don't wanna see that shit.

"L' homme avant tous existe,il se rencontre , il s' éleve dans le mond et il se défine seulement plus tard... Il seura ce qu' il faira de soi même."
(Jean Paul Sartre - from " Existentialism and Humanism")

[~lostgurl~]

I'm not sure how old the foetus was, in the first trimester anyway. I actually haven't seen it because I'm not sure I could stomach it, I feel like if I ever got pregnant I wouldn't have an abortion, but really that is a lot easier to say when you have never been put in that situation (especially with complications such as drug/medication use) but I know if I ever even considered it that the first thing I would do is watch this video!

Reputation Comments on this post:

SWIM is thankful for finding Silent Scream knowledge even though the disturbing content

[seekupdreamgirl]

Off-topic: SWIM saw a sad vid on youtube, search "vietnam napalm" and you will find the vid of the famous pic that made SWIM so sad. SWIM had to look away during the second silent scream vid. SWIM will watch 3, but is very worried about it. SWIM can not believe/stomach this, but is thankful for the knowledge.

On-topic: American's ask, "what's wrong with the kids?". Perhaps the biggest threat to pregnancy are the current ingredients in all products consumed by people pre-pregnancy. SWIM's surround themselves with modern chemicals, plastics, while we eat and drink engineered products?

SWIM was told once that SWIM (male) should stop using A, B, C, D (Not HARD chemicals) and not be around products A, B, C months before trying to conceive. And that was just SWIM, male.... SWIM has wondered why not avoid that stuff all the time??? Hhhmmmm.

SWIM sat at the golden arches ingesting one of SWIM's fixes - (fries & "their" NaCl) the other day and watched a mother feed her baby girl age 2-3, not 4. The mommy was giving pieces of chicken nuggets to the little girl. For every nugget the girl got a piece of a fry or two. Quite the deal considering the dipping sauces available!

What about that scenario? Does the 2-3 year old have any more power than the fetus? Where do the social positions stand there?

SWIM thought back, SWIM's mommy took SWIM to do the same thing. Basically, SWIM now fixes SWIM's problems with other chemicals which causes some other problems, but SWIM is not worried cause, there are chemicals that will make SWIM better from those problems. Such is life.

After it is all f'd up, the world gov't will be producing Brad Pitt's and Angelina Jolie's at an average of no less than 3/second.

Good luck all.

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting points.. thank you for the post

[LEC]

I just heard from my sister-in-law that they do drug testing on all babies born at the local clinic here.

Her friend was tested, and her daughter was temporarily taken away because she tested positive for marijuana. (keep in mind...heard from someone else)

This whole thread is a good read. The idea of the mom feeding her little kid McD and the child not having much choice in that either is an angle I didn't think of before.

That same sister in law smoked weed throughout 2 of her pregnancies (that I know of) and there seem to be no bad effects afterwards. Her first baby was pretty chill after he was born and the second emulated those results.

Personally, if someone wanted to keep the fetus (abortion and drugs all fall into "wanted or unwanted fetus" ) then they would try to do whatever they could to offer the best chance to the fetus. Ingesting anything (drugs, lard, bleach) that might cause future development problems for a fetus seems to be bad...but when you think of it...so many kids are already working against genetics let alone what their mothers took while they were in utero.

My sister (pregnant now) said you aren't supposed to eat lunch meat during gestation. I think its safe to say abstinence from everything is your best pregnancy bet but that is probably how they didn't get into the mess in the first place.

LEC

[highganja99]

SWIM would say drug use is wrong during pregnancy, SWIM thinks even taking in food additives when pregnant should be avoided, Pregnacy is a time to keep things natural as possible, a mulitude of things could possibly affect the unborn child, so if one wants to have the most healthy child possible then everything they ingest must come under scrutiny, doing without for 9 months will pay off for the next 20 years, a small sacrifice to have a haelthy child, athough after the child is born, still a parent has to be vigilant as to want is eaten and there opinion towards vaccines and so on, no point abstaining from toxins just for a doctor to give the child an vaccine with mercury in it.

[Paracelsus]

Please don't take anti-vaccination hysteria seriously. Please.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

Please don't take anti-vaccination hysteria seriously. Please.

Well yes people have gotton wrong information. However the current medical climate relative to vaccines in children is way out of hand. Just way too many vaccines. So the answer is probubly in the middle.

However that said if someone tried to vaccinate my kid against my will I would crack out the shotgun.

[purplehaze]

I think it's irresponsible. But it happens, and it will continue to happen, the problem is that the people it happens to aren't caught up with the morality of it or they would be responsible in the first place. Self justification and a twisted aspect of life continues there drug abuse through pregnancy, do I think that they should be prosecuted for it? No, it's there life, any and all choices made in the person's life still fall on there concience, that is punishment enough.

Life goes on.

[stoneinfocus]

If it could be opnely discussed there were drug subnsitutions, which weren't dangerous to the unborn child.

In a dream of an ideal world, the love to society and humans would forbid the useof dabgerous drugs during pregnancy as there were hardly any addictive behaviour revalent in society.

Legal drugs may cause serious damage to unborn children, it's mostly, again, about misinformation, myths and fear of legal consequences.

stoneinfocus added 4 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...

It's just about knowledge, as far as I know, pure heroin doesn't harm the child, cannabis, well if it was, half of the other cultures and world-population were having crippled children and wouldn't exist anymore, in the first place, among the other drugs traditionally involved, like Coca,opiates etc. ... could be talking out of my arse there, but I'm here to learn. But I think the most native tribes, which are smoking cannabis regularly and the South-Americans, like peruvians and bolivians do look healthy and their children, too.

[Paracelsus]

Sadly, in that case you'd have to agree with Jehova's witnesses having the right to deny their kids blood transfusions.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Paracelsus

Sadly, in that case you'd have to agree with Jehova's witnesses having the right to deny their kids blood transfusions.

I was expecting that response. No there is a big difference between someone in immediate danger of dying and the giving of a vaccine to attempt to prevent an illness that will most likely never happen.

[newgrower]

I find use of drugs during pregnancy to the point of harming a child repugnant. But what goal would be achieved by arresting these woman or taking babies away? I think that the maternal instinct is stronger than the force of law. I think harm reduction through education and medical attention would be more suitable for the issue.

If everybody decides not to immunize then the disease is no longer a rare event. They use these immunizations because the risk of death by some god awful diseases nobody here is old enough to have seen is much higher than a reaction from the immunization.